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Game of Thrones Round Table: "The Wolf and the Lion"

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With a show as epic as Game of Thrones, there's just no way we can leave you with just one critic's review.  That's where our Round Table panelists step in!

During this week's episode, "The Wolf and the Lion," there was plenty to discuss between deadly jousts, epic sword fights, and, of course, creepy breast feeding.  So without further ado, let's go table!

1. Favorite Game of Thrones quote from the episode?

Carissa P: "My father is Hand of the King. I am not a boy, I am Arya Stark of Winterfell. And if you lay a hand on me my father will have both of your heads on spikes. Now, are you going to let me by, or do I have to smack you on the ear to help you with your hearing?"

Dan F: "You wanna know the horrible truth? I can't even remember what she looked like. I only know she was the one thing I ever wanted. Someone took her away from me, and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind."  How do you not absolutely sympathize for the king after that?

Jim G: Catelyn: "I am not a murderer, Lannister."
Tyrion: "Neither am I! I had nothing to do with the attempt on your son's life....What sort of an imbecile arms an assassin with his own blade?"
Catelyn: "Gag him!"
Tyrion: "Why? Am I starting to make sense?"

Eric H: Again, we can probably just rename this question to my favorite Tyrion Lannister quote.  This week?  At being accused of the death of Lord Aryn, The Hand of the King:  "Oh, did I kill him, too?!  I've been a very busy man."

Game of Thrones Round Table

2. Book one readers: making Renly gay and openly showing his relationship with Ser Loras!?  DISCUSS!

Carissa P: I don't really care one way or the other, but I though it ironic that he complained of the others questioning his manhood as he was having all the hair shaved off of his body. Maybe that's why I like my men with a hairy chest; I have a better chance of hitting the right pool of available significant others.

Jim G: I don't know if I just didn't pick up on Renly being gay in the book. I am OK with it as it fits the characters. But it makes me wonder how close to the books they will follow for these characters..

Eric H: After only completing the first book, I never picked up on Renly being gay, nor his sexual relationship with Ser Loras.  Now that I know about it, their actions later on in the book do seem to make more sense.  I'm actually really liking the different direction the show is taking.  They seem to keep the results the same, just different means and justifications...

3. After her new scene with the King, Queen Cersei is certainly being painted much nicer.  Any sympathy for the conniving Queen and her 17 year loveless marriage?

Carissa P: Did you notice during their talk, they again mentioned that things started going downhill when she lost their first child? I'm going up and down with her. Sometimes I want to smack her, and others I really do feel sorry for her. With all the inbreeding going on in the families, it's really difficult to blame any of them for their strange behavior. There's a reason we don't marry our own blood in the US, it appears. Not just for moral reasons, but for genetic moreso.

Dan F: I had to be told by a book reader that Cersei was hated.  I have no problems with her so far, and at time really enjoy her, but that may be biased by my Lena Headey love.

Jim G: They are making her much more sympathetic than the book. I like the softness given Lena's portrayal of her.

Eric H: Yeah, this is insane!  Maybe it's that it's Lena Headey's portrayal, or the addition of all these scenes, but I'm starting to grow to like Cersei.  And that's incredible given my raw hatred for her when reading the book.  Have I mentioned how amazing this adaptation is?

4. Did you miss Viserys and Dany this week?  What do you think the last of the dragons were up to?

Carissa P: No, I think there was enough going on that I didn't miss them. Since so much of the action occurred at the mere thought of them, I was satisfied that they had not been forgotten. I also fear that a huge war will be.

Jim G: I am sure Viserys was whining about wanting his army to go get his crown back. Dany was probably snacking for the baby..

Dan F: Not at all.  They are probably my least favorite aspect of the show at this point.  I did, however, miss Jon Snow and The Wall.

Eric H: Wow, good call, Dan.  I completely didn't notice one of my favorite character's glaring absence.  I'm just glad none of you complained about a lack of dire wolves :)  Personally?  I miss the bright colors of Viserys and Dany's world.  Much like Jim, I believe Viserys was busy getting sized for his "Golden Crown."  Dany, however, was spending too much time with her dragon eggs and handmaids to snack.

5. So much nudity!  Ser Loras shaving/pleasuring Renly, Theon's prostitue, Littlefinger's brothel and Robert suckling from Lysa's teet.  Hot? Gratuitous? Creepy?  Just right?

Dan F: It is all a little much, but none more than the 12 year old kid on his mom's breast.  Just disturbing.  The shaving was weird but harmless.  Thus far Game of Thrones has three times the amount of nudity and sex as the critically dubbed "The Pornias" on Showtime.

Carissa P:  Shaving was just odd, I hope Roz spends as much time bathing as she does pleasuring the lords, and Robert and Lysa really brought the insanity out into the open. It was beyond creepy. I can't even imagine getting the kid to play the part. Part of me hopes it was a stunt boob.  Just yuck all around.

Jim G: While the scene with Robert and Lysa was in the book, it was just creepy on the screen. Of course, Roz (Theon's prostitute) managing to put Theon in his place while naked was well done.

Eric H: Stunt boob or not, book accuracy or not, watching a twelve year old breast feed was creepy by any account!  Now brothels nudity could never be considered gratuitous in Game of Thrones.  Now the shaving, I'm not even going to comment on, but I will say they probably could have cut out the sucking noises and ended the scene with Ser Loras going down.  I think we all knew the next step..

Eric Hochberger is the programmer of TV Fanatic, so please forgive his mediocre writing. His programming is far better. Follow him on Twitter and/or email him. Just don't request threaded comments. They're coming.

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"Shaving was just odd". Not at all, Carissa. There are many guys who shave their chests and other areas of their bodies. Some do it because it's a sexual preference, while others shave for their sport

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I'm rather surprised in reading reviews of the latest episode to discover that the Renly/Loras relationship wasn't obvious to others who have read the books. I can understand if you've only read the first book, but if you've read the series? Really? I would have been much happier if they had left out the sucking sounds (for other scenes too), but HBO always pushes my limits. SPOILER AHEAD... When Cersei is contemplating the Tyrell girl's supposed virginity after Renly's death (and her subsequent betrothal to Joffrey), the comment is made that just because you prefer one type of drink doesn't mean you won't sample another. That was a dead giveway, in my opinion, that not only are Renly/Loras gay, but it wasn't exactly a secret.

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I can see why Cersei is easier to like so far in the TV series. She's portrayed as a woman beset by circumstance. A Pawn rather than a Queen. However, she and Robbert are talking and he asks, "Does that make you feel better or worse?" Cersei replies, "It doesn't make me feel anything…" You know who else doesn't feel anything? Psychopaths.

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Bookwise vs this: Spoilers? Kinda, but not really. Yeah, yeah, yeah... Renly and Loras aren't POVs, and no one really ever discusses their personal business. Not to be phobic, but they kinda screwed up Renly all around. The only personality we get from him is from other POVs perceptions, what he projects. Making him this bratty, bj receiving man-child undoes him. Loras too. Totally undone. Yeah, GRRM implied it, but not "in your face" so maybe he just wanted it clarified once and for all. But if Renly/Loras get gay, then Jon's pretty much gay too and the kingsguard have secret orgies. I'm just saying. Maybe we'll run across Jon's mom, maybe a Darkstar monologue, Rhaeg/Lya flashback, or Howland Reed writing a diary. Just saying, if you want to say the unsaid, don't just put in bjs. Cersei is a villain, but not outright, except with Ned when she drops the "Game Of Thrones" guantlet, probably two episodes away, so who knows, maybe they'll lion her up. Jaime is more book three Jaime than book 1 Jaime, he should be more laughing jackal, to me, but he's not big in AGOT anyway. Not seeing how they are going to work it in S3 though... Tyrion is perfect, not really Jaime's younger early twenties? bro, but of all the miscasts in this, Dinklage is storming it, so probably not a miscast really. Love all the facial reactions with Lysa. Even Cat is coming out. Hooray for Dinklage. Really and truly, best episode yet. Just pissed off with the Renly/ Loras thing. Not phobic, but i don't think he could have made them any gayer unless it turned into a porn thing. Not pissed by the gay, pissed by the creepiness of it. We get it Martin, we get it! Somebody tell Martin that we get it. Sorry for not having them overtly gay in my mind. I was using "escalted bromance", but I'll reread and have that scene in my head at every mention of Ser Loras, okay? So no more! Am I ranting? Sorry. I'm actually afraid to watch this, except for the Tyrion parts. Bran was refreshingly good, but Theon is really... more gross and addled than he should be. Robert, over the top, but good. No Rob? Arya - wonderful. Loras... It's not like Tom Cruise/Lestat deconstruction, it's like Vin Diesel as Neo. Nothing overtly wrong just kinda square pegging my brain. I care too much about this...

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I'm really liking the show so far but I absolutely missed Dany and Viserys they're my favorites so far and I wish they had at least one scene with Snow. Now about the nudity I think it's actually pretty mild compared to other shows on HBO like True Blood for example. The suckling was a little disturbing I can't imagine how they prepared the actor for that and I would have been fine without the sucking noises lol

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The sucking was pretty gratuitous...but they did the same thing with Tyrion in the first episode. Really unnecessary, but whatever. Maybe they just wanted to make sure we knew he wasn't shaving Renly's legs?

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@fudgefase *SPOILERS WARNING* *SPOILERS WARNING* *SPOILERS WARNING* I'm going to assume that his death is ALL you know about, and you're understandably concerned. Right now, you consider him the main character of the series and probably the one the viewer admires the most. This is on purpose. GRRM did this to the readers 15 years ago. If nobody else had stepped up, there would be no book 2 or 3, and certainly wouldn't have a rabid online following (self-declared member) constantly debating where exactly GRRM is going with this whole thing. Sorry about that rant, but "not sure if it'll survive without him" offends me. The events of this series are ALREADY built, and they are amazing. The next two books are far and away some of the best fiction you can find out there. If HBO continues to follow as closely as they have, by Season 3 you should look back and be bored by the events of Season 1, and maybe even dislike Eddard and his Smash-the-problem-til-it-goes-away approach. I know I do. The point is, as the story goes on you realize how inept Eddard really was, especially when you get to see the intricate planning of a certain man (major character in several episodes now, but does not rise to power for several seasons) who I believe is cast to perfection. On the list of readers' favorite characters, Eddard probably doesn't even make the top 5. He deserves to die according to the rules of the world he lives in, and events of the story make that clear. Anyway, rant over. Enjoy the rest of the season, and hopefully the next five or six as well! :D

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Am I the only one who noticed that Dan F. and Clarisa P. Have excactly the same comment for the question #5?

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Am I the only ho noticed the writing on the wall when Tyrion thrown in "jail"? It said: Time to fly. Awsome? Indeed. I love Game of Thrones.

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I haven't read any of the books but am mildly fascinated with the series. Some very strong characters and performances. I know in the book (wikied it) that SPOILERS*****************SPOILERS*********************STOP READING SPOILERS AHEAD********************that Sean Bean's character is killed off and I have to say that unless someone else steps up significantly, his character's absence will be sorely missed - perhaps even the lynch-pin of the series. Not sure if it'll survive without him. My fave though has to be Tyrion - what a gem of a role, and Dinklelage is just superb.

Game of Thrones Season 1 Episode 5 Quotes

King Robert: You heard The Hand. Go find the breast plate stretcher. Now!
Ned: The breast plate stretcher?
King Robert: How long before he figures it out.
Ned: Maybe you should have one invented.

Ned: You're too fat for your armor.
King Robert: Fat? Fat is it? Is that how you speak to your King?

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