Smash > Smash Review: Ivy Croaks > Comments Page 2
A horrible episode to put it mildly. The whole Julia-Michael thing is an insult to anyone with a bit of weight above his shoulders but even after forgetting these horrible mistakes, can anyone please tell me how this episode added anything to the series? What was the aim of this episode besides boring me to death?
Anyways, enough of the whining. I have heard that the next episode is much better. If I don't like the next one, then its bye bye Smash for me. Mondays are too crowded anyways.
@Lindalou - HERE! HERE! Stop writing career women as so emotionally unstable, they would risk their entire life, career & family, for a roll in the hay! Julia lectures her son about not making mistakes that jeopardize the adoption. Then, she tongues a man who is not her husband on an NYC public street, where I'm sure people stay awake past 10pm. So...a shaky marriage won't end that adoption immediately, Julia? Also, who saw all the respect leave Leo's eyes when his mom greeted his dad. Ouch!
Another suggestion - the rivalry between Ivy and Karen feels old and stale. Been there, done that SO many times before. Make them friends instead because Ivy could benefit from Karen's emotional centeredness and stability, while Karen could learn a lot about theatre politics from Ivy. Make them into the equivalent of Marilyn Monroe & Jane Russell, & they'll be able to do the "Two Little Girls from Little Rock" number!
I was SO uncomfortable watching any scene with Julia and Michael...what is she, 17? It's insulting to grown married women that she would make such risky choices based on sexual attraction alone. How could she respect the fact that he's so willing to cheat on his wife and child as well as allow her to throw away a family and career? Writers: How about a female character that has a BRAIN?
I also am starting to find Tom a bit annoying with his "holier than thou" attitude. I really don't think he's into his "boyfriend"
I think Karen did great at the bar mitzvah ....Ivy was jealous that Karen got to contact that guy.
Wonder how long it will be before Leo confronts Julia about seeing her kiss Michael?
You two arguing about Julia/Michael need to get a grip. Affairs happen-it's a fact of life. There's a plethora of reasons as to why they happen. I really don't see anyone condoning an affair. In my view nothing makes having an affair the right thing to do no matter what the circumstance. I do think this part is too soapy for this particular show, however, in the Broadway musical world, I'm sure this happens frequently.
I still do not like Ivy. It would have served her right if Karen got to perform as Marilyn. I do not like Ellis, he's like a little child playing tattle tale....very annoying.
Best episode yet. I especially liked when the "boys" came over to comfort Ivy. So warm and fuzzy. Loved Karen at the bar-mitzvah. Loved the hunting game at the divey bar. As far as Julia look we all know people have affairs come on. I think we are afraid she going to ruin her life and prob will. But it was HOT! Please NBC don't take this show away from me...you have a bad track record.
Will somone please let me know when they take this show 'on the road' and off of tv. Tried to watch it because of Ms. Houston but I don't think even her talent can hold this together.
NITPICK: Ivy's comment that Marilyn Monroe would have had a rival fired in the first week doesn't ring true. If someone could cite a specific incident recounted in print where she ever behaved like this, I'll gladly recant. But, IIRC, MM was never a "diva" in the sense that she would treat people badly or demean them in public. And, her lateness and absences were not because she thought she was too important. They were attributed to crippling stage fright and anxiety. So, no writers, I don't think MM would have been that mean. That Ivy is is an interesting difference of character.
The whole Julia thing is bothering me a lot. I also loved her in the beginning but the whole cheating thing is really unnecesary. I belei less soap and more music will help the show a lot. Why do writers assume we all watch TV to see people rolling around in the bed. My favorite parts of the show are when Karen and Ivy are doing what they are there for. I do find it odd you did not mention Karen expect in passing. Her cover of that song, which I can't remember the name of, was awesome. And I don't know why I can't get it on iTunes. Also I loved the whole version of "History Is Made At Night". I also think Anjelica Houston's character is very cool.
again i am not making any excuses because it doesn't need any and when i say it is "understandable" it is not an excuse it is just the way it is. do you really mean to tell me you do not understand why she did it? "understandable" doesn't mean that it is good/bad/evil/right..... it mean that we get where she is coming from. and when i talked about the distinction between men/women, i meant it generally to other people, i didn't direct to you specifically, it was just sth i wanted to say at that moment.
when you said that just because she is "creative" it shouldn't make it okay, i get it but it is unrealistic. she is not only creative, she gets paid for envisioning other worlds, that makes for a weird grasp on the real world, believe me i grew up in a family where both my parents are directors, grandparents are either ballet dancers or musicians. the point is that her husband is not a part of that world and it can make it difficult to stay passionately connected.
@MrsAlex - You have a point about Ivy. Ivy is not a "star" and she really shouldn't be acting like one who is so famous, they can yell at a director without consequence. Just because she got the part in a workshop doesn't mean she's going to keep it when it's Broadway-bound. Plus, if I have the timeline correct, she was still a chorus girl only 6 weeks ago. Not a featured player with a small part. A *chorus* girl (speaking of which, aren't they all still working at their old jobs?). Yes, she's talented. But, remember when Glenn Close got SUNSET BOULEVARD on Broadway over Patti Lupone? Talent alone does not entitle people to leading parts.
i didnt make any distictions between what she did and what he did. Its the same thing. The problem is that if you start giving reasons when adultery is ok or "understandable" is a very slippery slope. Of course it happens all the time in the real world but dont you think that the way the trend is right now that long term succesful marriages are becoming more and more the exception rather than the norm. Cheating , adultery is so common now by either the man or the woman that its just sad. In Smash she doesnt even show any guilt over what she did and the producers have wisely totally left out his wife and young child or Michael would look even more creepy than he already does. I mean he was relentless in pursuing Julia.
For me the show just really messed up this story arch. It seems they want us to pull for them but can you really ?? I think its very very poor writing.
What I found ironic is she yelled and Derek for treating her like crap when she is treating Karen the same way!! I just found myself laughing at that moment! I really hope they fire Ivy!! For a Broadway vet of 10 years or however long they said she was done shows for she really should know that you do not yell at the director! Derek should have fired her on the spot!
While I do not condone adultry I think that the scene in the studio with Michael and Julia was steamy! Maybe it is because I love Will Chase and think he is super hot!
Ellis is so annoying how old is he five? He sure is acting like a child running to Eileen to tell her every bit of what was happening.
Then we have Ivy, I disagree with you Carla, I think Ivy's attitude is getting worse each week, she is super mean to Karen and when she told her friend at rehearsal that she have had Karen fired long ago was super mean and she was just jealous because Karen got the attention of a music exec. Each week I say that Ivy is very jealous of Karen and knows she only got the role because she slept with Derek. Then Ivy had to be super unprofessional at rehearsal with her little fit she had.
3) BERNADETTE PETERS next week! BERNADETTE PETERS! Please tell me she's going to sing. They better have her sing.
seriously did u read what i wrote?
i didn't say it was okay, i said i can understand it. this whole thing is not a reflection on our values, it is just a reflection of what always was, at least now the shows have guts not to sugar coat the reality and create characters who are perfect.
this hypocrisy stinks, if a guy cheats, he is an asshole but it is sorta normal as long as he makes sure it never gets back to hurt his better half and everybody sort of expects it from them. when a woman cheats she is suddenly a slut and a bunch of other things worthy of sending her to hell without a return ticket.
Forgot to say I enjoyed the episode! Nice "Black Swan" touch there, having Ivy hallucinate a taunting Karen as Marilyn. I think using steroids in a pinch is pretty common and acceptable. So, I didn't have a problem with it for the short-term. I don't know why any performer would want to use it long-term knowing the side effects are weight gain, hallucinations and emotional instability.
Couple of technical questions:
1) Derek is the director. Is there a separate choreographer, or is he doing both?
2) Julia has a lot on her plate. Is it common that lyricists do the book for a musical, too? Or should there really be someone else doing that.
1) Character limit is ANNOYING! Please remove it!
2) Julia is a hot mess. Have hard time believing a person so successful in theatre is making such lousy decisions when trying to launch a new musical. Eileen is out there selling her Degas to raise $$$ while Julia is literally f*!king around, so distracted by her former lover that she can't finish lyrics or scenes to sell this thing. Tom needs to stop the soft sell, and slap her. This isn't high school! Theatre is a business and she's being PAID to produce something. How did she & Michael ever keep their first affair so secret because they telegraph everything with the way they keep invading each other's personal space. You'd have to be an idiot to not notice their googly eyes at each other.
3) EWWWW! Not the couch! I've been in rehearsal halls, and the furniture is NASTY. Who else screamed, "No! Get away from that thing, Ivy! You don't know what just happened there!" when it was rolled out for the music number?
really ? its ok to potentially destroy 2 families including children because you are "creative" ?? Bullcrap. Its simple giving in to temptation nothing more nothing less. Its weakness of character. Sure most of us have fantasies about our dream man/woman but to act on it when your have a loving family is just not right. You know what follows .. lies lies more lies and in the end the trust will be totally gone. If it was a failing marriag i could kinda understand it but here ? Its sad that getting your satisfaction is more important than commitment, love and family. But i guess its a mirror image of where our values have gone.
The Julia/Michael angle (and the business about the adoption) comes across as "what can we give Debra Messing to do?", like they decided she needed a storyline outside the musical thing and couldn't be bothered to think of anything better. It's clichéd and it's dull.
@ TvFanatic staff
What is up with the 1000 characters limit, it wasn't like that before, and it makes it so difficult to write a coherent comment especially when you have a lot to say if you feel strongly about sth.
Also, I am soo sorry to say this and there will probably be a lot of hate towards after this but
IVY IS SOOOOO HUGE AND MUSCLED! SHE LOOKS LIKE A BULLDOZER WITH BOOBS! She isn't Marilyn and neither is Karen who is too modern and broad-shouldered and not enough burlesque. But Ivy needs to go into heavy lifting competitions not Broadway.
.... I imagine that for a woman(not even as creative and artistic as she) it would be overwhelmingly seductive and tempting. you said it yourself that there was sth forced about the plot with adopting a baby, maybe that was the intention, to show that there’s sth forced about the marriage on the other hand there’s sth so simple and natural in the way she is with Michael. She’s almost being Marilyn in those moments with her mundane and forced normality in life and her inner passion and vulnerability with Michael in the magic and seductive world of showbizz.
I disagree with the review since the only characters I actually like are Julia and Michael. There’s sth very wrong about what they are doing but also sth very real, people are not perfect and just because it is morally wrong doesn't mean that it can't happen and neither does it mean that the person doing it is bad. her husband is her husband but she is a creative person and thus prone to get carried away into the world of her own and to find a person that can understand the depth of your passion for the world of art and to a person who’s literally makes your imagination and your fantasized words and plots real and alive every time he performs....
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