The Mentalist > Couples Commentary: Will They? Won't They? Should They? > Comments Page 6
..see the characters continue to be subverted in deference to this pairing. How about subtext for everyone and canon for no one? Or is that too much to ask?
The whole Ziva & Tony thing died in Season 5 and was buried in the trainwreck which was the Rivkin affair. As much as they, and a very vocal group of fans, wish to handwave it all away, they wrote themselves into a corner they cannot possibly write themselves out of.
CBS is sending such a bad message by playing games with this potential pairing. There's no mistaking what has occurred between these two characters since Ziva's introduction. Abuse is never all right and certainly not a sign of romantic intent.
Perhaps TVfanatic should explore that angle a bit rather than continue to stir the pot of shipper wars? So many hits from both sides of a contentious argument - heady stuff for your hit counter rather than anything resembling serious journalism.
Perhaps those who ship these two could sit back and see their entitlement as selfishness foisted off on the majority of this large fandom. Many of us have been with the show since its inception and have no desire to see the ch
You call the Tiva relationship abusive because she insults him yet you don't comment on the fact that Tony has insulted McGee many times over the years he even commented on McGee's weight too (something about McGee being funnier when he was fat can't quote verbatim) yet it is seen as a bromance or friendly banter. Do you see this relationship in the same light as Tiva and if not why the different rules in the relationships is it just because you don't like her character??
Sorry if my posts come off as an attack on fans. That isn't my intention. I do think though that many tiva fans are really Ziva fans only because it just seems to me that if they really liked Tony they would want him to be written as getting at least a little respect from his co workers, as he used to, and wouldn't excuse Ziva's constant put downs and insulting, insensitive verbal attacks. If Tony called Ziva fat, or pondered out loud what could a man like that (successful and good looking) could ever see in Ziva, I have a feeling a great many Ziva/tiva fans would be calling for his head on a platter.
@Michael and AJA
I think it is so hypocritical of you to verbally attack Tiva fans for supposedly hating Tony when you attack Ziva every chance you get.
Kate! Tony with Abby would be like putting Tony with little Shirley Temple, never!!! You've had NCIS your way for 9 yrs. now it's time for the fans of Tiva to have get what we've waited for for 7 years.
People keep putting Ziva down because they say she is a Mary Sue and is too perfect. What about Abby, can one child/woman who doesn't know enough to come in out of the rain & names her teeth be able to accomplish all of the tests in every field of forensics etc that she supposedly does ? It takes 6 people to do that on the CSI series ? That Abby is an expert in every field is a little hard to swallow.
Part 2 of my yammering...
... Gibbs going all protective on his team afterward, actually being nice to them, which freaked them out but was endearing at the same time). It's so much more powerful when the focus is on everyone and how they relate to one another and care for one another. Forcing a romance just isn't necessary on a show like NCIS. The Tony-Ziva possibility had its shot several seasons ago, back when they had a more real flirtation, back when it felt like it could be something ("Under Covers," anyone?). Now there's too much baggage, and I think they work better as friends and close teammates who want to be there for one another, if they can. But the show really shines when other relationships are explored (Tony and Tim's friendship, Gibbs and Abby, Palmer and Duckie, Ziva and Duckie, Gibbs and Palmer, Tony and Abby, and all the fascinating combinations in between).
That's my take, anyway.
I think Tony and Ziva worked better as a potential couple back during season 3, when things were new and they had a strong flirtation going on. Now it feels forced, like the writers are just trying to get them together in order to fill some sort of romance quotient. It's not necessary. The show has always been strongest when it's about the team as a family, what they do for one another, now they care for one another, whether it's Tony saving Abby from Ari's bullet through her lab window, or Gibbs looking out for Palmer, or McGee pulling Tony to safety in that cement parking garage where he was dangling over the edge, or all of them looking out for one another when it's life and death (Abby being stalked, Tim stuck in that women's prison, Tony with the plague or after the S4 bomb cliffhanger, Gibbs rescuing Tim, Tony and Ziva from that desert cell where they were being questioned and tortured, Ducky being kidnapped, Kate being killed and Gibbs going all protective on his team afterward,
My favorite girl for Tony DiNozzo was always Paula Cassidy. I really don't care one way or the other about him getting together with Ziva. If it happens, I won't stop watching. If it doesn't happen, I'll keep on watching.
But Castle and Beckett....I'm jumping up and down with joy over them getting together. Their chemistry lights up the screen and I think the writers will have a lot of fun showing us the ups and downs of their relationship. Can't wait for September!!
Good points Michael and Kate. The idea that it doesn't matter how cruel and insulting Ziva is to Tony, that her abuse is funny, and that they are secretly in love is, well, so middle school. I too think that the tva/Ziva fans are over represented online, and are the loudest most demanding entitled group in ZCIS fandom, but they don't necessarily represent a true majority.
Borin and Tony might be fun because they both have interesting personalities and are both rather funny. Sadly, I doubt that Tony will ever get to have an adult relationship with a woman because tptb continue to woo the golden younger demographic with the promise of tiva. I don't think that the tiva/Ziva fans are the only ones who could care less about Tony.
@michael is it just me that cant understand a thing he writes.michael its a show the characters are make belive its not real.
Didn't realize there was a character limit. To continue - Ziva with Damon and I loved McGee with the gamer girl.
I don't want it to become a soap opera though. I'd rather see a reinvigoration of the team dynamic. All the focus on Tiva and McAbby lately has limited Tony/Abby, Tony/Gibbs, McGee/Ziva, Ziva/Abby and Tony/Tim relationships. I'd like them all to have time to strengthen the core relationships. Also Ducky and Vance don't get enough with various team members and I'd love to learn more about Tony and Jimmy's friendship. I want meaty cases with interesting villains and good team dynamics.
Actually, I'd rather see Tony with Abby or Borin if it has to be a co-worker of any sort. Abby has always been demonstrative and they have far more in common than Tony and Ziva. (Sorry - McGee - love you too but Abby and you - not long term). Tony would be far more able to keep up with Abby in terms of her social activities.
Borin is a female Gibbs - which truthfully is probably the most perfect for Tony. ; ) Borin is honest without being cruel, supportive, up front and has a healthy sense of humor which I think Tony, as a character, needs. I'm excited to hear she's coming back.
I don't hate Ziva. I loved her third season with her flaws and passion but they've gradually made her Super-Ziva over the years which is a bit boring. I think Tony and Ziva would be very passionate together for about two-three months and then they'd kill each other. There's a good reason for Rule 12.
I'd love to see Damon come back as I think he & Ziva would be ideal for each other. And I
You know what really sad is these has now gone to CM the H/P shipper are doing the same thing the Tiva sipper are doing only their needs matter only what they want matter and everyone can either love or leave it.
These is a AMERICAN show and I said if Michael Weatherly's his fanbase and the cast escape for Ziva does not want Tiva I say they have every right as a american not to do something that is wrong both moral and in the work world.
What kinda of message would NCIS be sending to our Young girls that sex and abuse is okay that man are dumb and only good for sex well I say enough is enough and its time for a change. As a man of God I will not stand for these Man have rights too we human with feelings and we do not want Tiva
I love your comments @brownstone185
@jaja111 I agree with @Janet I love your comment
Tiva shippers aren’t the entire fandom! The idea that the majority of the fandom wants/wanted them together only exists because Tiva shippers are one of the loudest and most obnoxious fanbases but loud & obnoxious =/= majority. Yeah, there are tons of Tiva stories on the Internet, but it’s the same 15-20 or so crap-ass writers spewing pages and pages of out-of-character BS. The fact that the primary reason you’d even want Tony to“hook up” with Ziva shows you don’t really care about him as a character in his own right. Why don’t you stick to the crappy fanfic and leave watching and commenting on the show to those of us who care about it and the characters regardless of who anyone’s dating!
Yes, Tony and Ziva should be in a romantic relationship.
Who the heck are the 10 percent who think Castle and Beckett getting together is a bad thing? I know everyone has the right to their own opinion but COME ON! The show has been building to this for four seasons. It's about damn time.
Tony and Ziva have been far longer but it hasn't been the sole focus of the show. I think the show could get them together and make it really fun and interesting.
The Mentalist I'm not so sure. I don't think Jane and Lisbon are there yet. Eventually, but just not yet.
Dear Michael, despite your claims about us shippers - so far *you* are the only one I have seen throwing a fit here. Curious.
Also - Michael Weatherly's Twitter account is not fake, he is verified and has often tweeted personal photos and video messages from behind the scenes.
But yeah, you know what, just keep going like you did, it's fine. I dig it. It illustrates beautifully that it's not the Tony/Ziva shippers who are insane. :)
@jaja111 loved your comment you are so right.but you should realize they will always be haters who put the show down.
Can't we just trust that the writers and producers will do what's best for the show?
Well one of the great things about NCIS is that the fans care about it so much that they will argue about topics. I am a Tiva fan and I hope that they will get together before the end of the series. I wish fans wouldn't be so caught up on what happened in season 6 between Tony and Ziva. In th past 2 seasons they have formed a real friendship. I don't think Ziva's past makes her a victim. I think she and Tony are both stronger for what they went through in their childhood. I don't think Ziva is out-shinning Tony as Gibbs' right hand and she is not more important than anyone else on the show. All the characters bring something to the show and if Gibbs needs to know something about assassins he will probably go to Ziva. If he needed something on computers he would go to McGee. If he needed some help on how to find a suspect he would probably go to Tony. I don't understand how people can think the show is all about Ziva. Maybe they're just seeing want they want to so they can hate on Ziva.
Ziva is the H (Hydrogen) & Tony is the O (Oxygen), & we need the '2' of them to fill in the blank of 'H_O', which is what we all need in order to live, right? So, put them together now, before we all die of thirst.
Sorry I meant I'm a huge Tiva fan I want them to be together
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