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Jane: This is Red John. Lisbon: How can you tell? Jane: Because when it's him I can feel it.The Mentalist Clips
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Jane: This is Red John. Lisbon: How can you tell? Jane: Because when it's him I can feel it.
February 4th, 2013 11:29 AM
ahah rationalgal I had to laugh at "In lieu of getting a life I decided to see if I can find clues to Red John's ID" ahah I feel the same at the moment, people would think I'm crazy as I spend my time watching the mentalist and looking for clues.
Im also in the pre-mourning phase with a bit of hope though, Ive been hooked for a bit more than a month and knowing that this series has been on for years makes me sad, sad to have missed all that joy, as silly as it might sound. ok I have now seen all the episodes but it would have been nicer to see them incrementally and shared the discussion with people every day/week. If they don't renew it for another season, I'll feel gutted, like i've really missed out on it.
anyway..
February 4th, 2013 9:56 AM
Cont. I can see CBS keeping TGW and I can see it going two ways 1) full season renewal, or 2) mid season appearance to achieve the magic 88 for syndication sales. I suspect the TGW decision will influence the decision for TM. At present it appears to sit the strongest of the three. I suspect this is part of the reason CBS did not give any promotion during the Super Bowl.
February 4th, 2013 9:49 AM
I'm not sure I fully grasp the renewal math. From what I can figure is The Mentalist, The Good Wife, CSI are all sitting on the bubble, even though some of these out perform (with Nielson ratings and millions of viewers) than shows CBS is presently renewing (exp. Elementary) and part of that has to do with the almighty syndication dollar. Shows need 88 episodes to be marketed for syndication and that takes ~4 seasons to achieve. TM is in syndication and I think CSI is too, but TGW does not have enough episodes. Presently TM is out performing both. TGW and TM both suffer Sun./football damage, but to TM's credit it has better viewership than TGW despite TGW having a stronger lead in and not getting pushed out of prime time. CSI is numerically showing weakest and I think it has the most expensive budget. I'd guess CSI has the best chance of being canceled first. Cont.
February 4th, 2013 3:41 AM
@rationalgal love your idea of lorelei luring jane to his doom by distracting him with 2,000 handshakes. from the time she said that to him, i found it hard to believe that a woman that sharp would blurt that out by accident or wouldn't know how it would tie jane up in knots. this handshake thing comes out of jane's mouth once an episode. i watched the scene again where he takes lisbon through his math and it's a pretty dumb scene. he dismissed people he never saw again? how does that make sense? aren't they included in people he didn't become lifelong friends with? anyway, it would be great if it turned out to be lorelei screwing with him. perhaps this is what bruno meant by jane finding out he's not so smart. he seemed quite proud of coming up with all those names. pride goeth before a fall.
February 4th, 2013 2:31 AM
@kate i think the writers are proceeding with the idea of "hope for the best, expect the worst." i would think they will have alternative endings to the season that either bring the series to a close or tee them up for next season. it would be sad to have them rush to tie it all up and so great to continue. i've always loved the red john premise and would be happy to be fed little clues for another couple of years or till the end of time - i know i'm in the minority here. i've found very few episodes that didn't have a red john thread or a piece of jane backstory to be really outstanding. think i once counted 9. so i can't see the series going on without red john. on the other hand if they skewer red john and give us another season, i will be glad to suffer through seeing my favorite character every week. i have mentioned the idea that if they have to end, they kill red john in the next to last ep and in the last, flash-forward a year or so.
February 4th, 2013 2:13 AM
And realistically, can the show survive without the RJ element? It's what drives Jane and as much as I'd like to see how he adjusts, etc. I don't think the show would continue which is a shame as I think it works well as just a procedural as well. As someone said, Jane's an interesting character - all the team are, it'd be a shame to lose them from our screens.
February 4th, 2013 2:12 AM
@Watcher - I don't think they'll catch RJ this season if they get another year. I've read in an interview with Owain Yeoman that he says they'll really, really close to getting him or finding the identity but that's it. They want to go on for around seven season's isn't that right? Well, if they DO somehow manage to get that, I can't imagine how they'll drag the RJ storyline out for another two years if they plan to get close this season. That said, maybe they are wrapping it up sooner - you all understand the ratings system over there far better than I do - but I hope they get another year to finish it off well. I really wouldn't like to see RJ caught right at the end of the final episode and then Jane says, 'right, I'm off, it's been nice.' I'd like at least an episode to address what happens with the team afterwards, especially if they actually catch RJ rather than kill him, although I don't see another end for RJ than death to be honest. But that's just me. And realisticall
February 4th, 2013 12:35 AM
@waywardone have no idea why they've all bailed on the mentalist.
re dark murderous characters. tragedies or really dark stuff just get more attention. i think they're also easier to do. charm is hard. when the mentalist is at its best, it's so charming.
i've actually been thinking about the producers being distracted from the show. bruno sold a pilot to cbs and tom szentgyjorgyi and one of the women producers also sold a pilot called murder bitches. (???)
i think simon hates being on the talk shows. he has no small talk (love that about him). i loved when he was sexiest man on tv. and they won the people's choice award. and cbs did great promos. now, in france, he is GOD. as many people watch each week as in the U.S. amazing.
February 4th, 2013 12:22 AM
LOL! I know you do!
February 4th, 2013 12:14 AM
@watcher thanks for the hug. i feel i have the strength now to go on.
February 4th, 2013 12:11 AM
@huisclothes - I agree Jane is a great character and Baker a great actor. I'm sure once the Mentalist is done he'll be in many other things - whether movies, TV or both. And there's a decent chance we'll even get another season of the Mentalist (hopefully without RJ so that I can stay to enjoy it).
February 3rd, 2013 11:09 PM
@watcher. see what you're saying about good wife and i do think the writing is excellent. the story lines are pretty much continuous and it's way more realistic than mentalist. mentalist is tragic and comedic at the same time. i love that about it. when it hits, it's thrilling. i think the quality of the episodes has been uneven. some of them were embarrassing to watch. know you're sick of red john but i found most of those to be knock-outs. i wish they'd woven that thread through more of the eps. but no one on tv who has the star power of simon baker. he lights up a room. he carries the show. he's a real leading man. and since i've never seen a character as good as patrick, i don't think simon's coming back in a better role any decade soon. can't believe it but the son of a bitches at cbs didn't give any promos to the mentalist on the super bowl. gaaahhh.
February 3rd, 2013 11:04 PM
Continued: The red shirt guy in season 3 finale: Clue: Look for RJ to appear as a guy in a red shirt. The only character I remember wearing a red shirt is Walter Mashburn, always a person of interest.
Lorelei: The song is an old German classic based on a history of sailors smashing their boats on a rock when their attention was drawn elsewhere. Clue: Watch for Lorelei to lure Jane to destruction by drawing his attention elsewhere, as in obsessing over 2,000+ handshakes.
Lisbon's cross: It's in memory of her mother. There have been two or three versions because the prop department keeps misplacing the one they used last season. (Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.)
February 3rd, 2013 11:02 PM
In lieu of getting a life I decided to see if I can find clues to Red John's ID. Nothing really deep, just stuff to look for – or not:
"He is ma/…" The bloody scrawl on the wall where Jared was killed. Most likely completed meaning: "Red John is many [persons]" Hard to find a word more fitting than "many." Clue: Watch for RJ surro-gates impersonating him and/or doing his dirty work. Rosalind's RJ was different from Sally Carter's RJ and both were different from Rebecca's RJ. Also, the taunting laugh on the phone after Jared was killed was not the same as the higher pitched voice in the season 3 and 4 finales.
Pretty teacups: Rosalind had them, and one was at the end of the episode on a small stack of books where someone (RJ?) was watching a surveillance video of the basement. Clue: Look for pretty tea-cups. Sally Carter had them, decoration only slightly different. (continued)
February 3rd, 2013 10:20 PM
@huisclothes - About Simon not getting nominated: My feeling is the unevenness of the show hurts him. The show can be excellent one week and disappointing the next. I also think the show mixes in a lot of humor that is, in my opinion, very campy. Campy does not usually get somebody a best actor in a drama nomination. It's not his fault, but it is reality. People talk about how much the Good Wife gets nominated. I watch that show as well, and I think it is much more consistent. I don't find myself constantly getting frustrated because something doesn't make sense. The humor is more subtle. It just comes off as more "serious" and best drama worthy. Just my opinion.
February 3rd, 2013 10:14 PM
@anitraward1 - I think all the speculating is fun. Most of what all of us write here will turn out to be wrong in the end, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy it for now. And you are right - somebody may figure it out before the end because of reading all of this. I have no idea if the show will be renewed or not. It can go either way. Personally, I won't watch next year if they don't wrap up Red John this season. So I really hope they do find him and make it something good. But in either case reaging everybody's theories is interesting and sometimes makes me consider things from a different perspective. But I still think Lorelei is evil and hope she dies a bloody death. :-)
February 3rd, 2013 9:35 PM
Huisclothes: I too am in pre-mourning, and like KM and you, I just want everything to end well and justify our dedication to and delight in the show and I would love to see Patrick smile at something again.
You said "simon won't get nominated for the same reason writers like dark endings - won't make the voters feel as cool as voting for a sick murderous drug dealer. simon knows he's been shunned and why."
Is that why? lack of dark murderous lead characters? I'm wondering if there is something deeper going on. Not only is Simon being shunned, but the whole program is being ignored by cbs and the media. From the Sunday death-slot, lack of promos, lack of interviews (except Ellen and Conan earlier) and not even a people's choice mention. They boost the good wife and elementary, but give no support to TM although TM's numbers have stayed fairly solid.
February 3rd, 2013 9:31 PM
@ huisclothes
Since there is no inoculation for bad news take comfort from what I posted earlier that Nielson ranked The Mentalist 14th Nationally in the coveted 18-49 demographic for last week. None of their pride and joy new season shows ahead of it. So their lack of attention is biting their arses. If they are stupid enough to shoot themselves financially then they are fools.
Yes, I know the Emmy stupidity, but it doesn't stop me from wishing differently. And I never bother to watch the broadcast.
February 3rd, 2013 9:16 PM
thanks anitraward1. will try.
February 3rd, 2013 9:05 PM
Heads up Huisclothes! We stll might have another season! Don't get depressed yet!
February 3rd, 2013 9:01 PM
Cont.-we are a big think tank and have gotten alot of things right. I like when people throw the ideas out there then we can deduce it to get to the most plausable answer. Sometimes the wrong thought can get you to the right answer. Everybody jumps in and figures out why it's wrong! I've seen this happen so many time in this sight that it amazes me. I believe we will figure it out before the writer's tell us. SO, I, SAY, ROCK ON, PEOPLE!
February 3rd, 2013 8:55 PM
Ok Watcher, I get what you are saying. You are talking about every little thing, I agree with that. In the Devil's Cherry, what he hallucinated had meanings relevant to Jane and the series. The lottery ticket photo's were all over the place and the the storyline ended up being about the lottery. The story was all over the place until it landed on the lottery storyline near the end of the episode. I do think That the sybolism for Lorelei is correct. I don't think every little detail is. But I will say this again, that all the analysis right or wrong has lead us to most of our correct answers. Even the writer's came out and confirmed what we had alredy deduced.
February 3rd, 2013 8:51 PM
@km yes. i'm watching Super Bowl - well, sitting through it is more correct - hating cbs for doing no promos for mentalist. so far none for good wife either. so i guess i have to seriously deal with it being over. though i keep telling myself you can't get a head start on depression - just cause you start early doesn't mean you finish sooner. but i'm in mourning. i want them to give us a great ending. jane happy. not too bittersweet. as i've said, writers like dark endings. makes them feel cool. so i worry. i would like jane and lisbon to get together. and we've already gotten his hand slipping into hers so something more.
simon won't get nominated for the same reason writers like dark endings - won't make the voters feel as cool as voting for a sick murderous drug dealer. simon knows he's been shunned and why.
February 3rd, 2013 8:10 PM
@ huisclothes Apparently I don't count well under the influence of bourbon and bass guitar. 14 sleeps, because I must count today. I think we both like Lorelei. I'd even like to see her survive. I suppose I don't really care if they sleep together again. (I wouldn't be surprised. He said that he would marry her to get what he wants.) But I don't need him to sleep with Lisbon either. I want the series to end well. To open the door to a happy and bright beginning for all. Hopefully the emotionally unavailable Jane will get to be emotionally available without specters of intense guilt and serial killers threatening to cause him such despair that he descends into madness. I want the cast to feel proud of its ending. The audience mostly pleased. Oh... And the Emmys to stop thinking that gifted actors in procedural dramas are unworthy of winning; I'd like to see Baker nominated and to win.
February 3rd, 2013 7:12 PM
@km the cross. now there was a symbol that played a major role in the pilot. when jane is talked about bread rolls and nautical kitsch and van pelt talked about his eternal soul, they keep cutting to lisbon, silent and amused with a cross around her neck. secure in her belief and not needing to proselytize or defend her point of view. don't know if the big cross and the little cross have significance but who knows?