The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List > Comments Page 47
The reviewer missed the biggest moment in the show-when Lisbon failed to tell Jane that Ray was a member of Visualize and that he may have been at that farm.
Grace is probably being kept around so she can fall under Red John's spell. She has been portrayed as way gullible (Jane even said the girls from her state were known for their gullibility). For all she's participated in episodes since her pregnancy, they could easily have created a scenario where she left temporarily or for good -- and they didn't.
Also, she could already be in Visualize.
Some things that weren't clear (or were left hanging) in the episode are the murder of 2 of the 3 at the farm before the last one was killed by the vet's daughter. When were they killed? Did the last guy know they were dead and where their bodies were? If Red John killed them, why didn't he kill all 3? If Red John didn't kill them, who did?
That is, it still isn't conclusive to me that Stiles knows who he is and helps Red John because anyone who did is evil and Stiles has been presented as egotistical, possibly a con man, although he comes off as a true believer, and making money off his church, but he hasn't been portrayed as someone who enjoys watching people be totured and killed -- although, like I'm suggesting after this episode, Red John at least passed through Visualize, which Stiles may have realized already and could maybe help Jane find him at some point???
It would be really lame if Hafner was Red John. The one thing Hafner does do, though, is tie Visualize in in some manner. I didn't think anything of Stiles being out of the country (just figured either the actor was unavailable or they wanted to save paying him when they could hint/imply something if he wasn't available). To those of us watching at home, Visualize is sinister -- but I don't see it's actually portrayed in the show to the characters as anything much more than, say, scientology, which isn't "borderline unethical" to be a member of.
Jane's teasing her that she is a terrible liar does not mean that others recognize when she is lying. She fooled the Judge in "Little Red Corvette", and the shrink, her team, Bosco, et cetera, in "Red Badge".
Is Lisbon really a terrible liar and incapable of keeping things private? I don't think you rise to senior special agent without either of those traits. Sure she is human and can screw up, but she has proven trustworthy multiple times. I'm more inclined to think that Jane's keeping her out of the loop is about protection, it is about deniability. Jane may be able to read her well, but part of that may come from her willingness to be read. The character of Lisbon may not like lying and thus it doesn't come naturally to her, but she can lie, she can manipulate, and she can keep things private. Her listening in on Jane's conversation with Lorelei in (S 5 Ep 1), and when she manipulated him into being involved with a case in (S 3 Ep1) are some of the few times that Jane felt she couldn't be trusted. Whereas Jane as provided multiple examples to suggest he is not trustworthy. Hence why it is so important to him that she trusts him (trust fall). My point is that Jane teasing her for being
Need to reiterate here. If RJ was a member of Visualize, he will have made those weekly confession tapes that the organization requires at least of its trainees at the facility, possibly from the management and teachers also. That means Stiles, who has conveniently fled the country, has ALL the early skinny on Red John. Maybe even for years as his development as a serial killer and minion-collector. If the minions were/are Visualize, too, then Stiles knows almost everything about RJ's organization and methods. I would assume that Stiles would have recognized the volatility of RJ's confessions early on and perhaps became the only witness/listener/viewer. That makes Stiles a great big risk to RJ right now and perhaps he will be targeted and killed. Or perhaps Stiles will become more cooperative with CBI in finding and eliminating RJ to eliminate the risk to himself.
I also am getting tired of the RJ theme. I mean, come on 5 years? Enough already! This is TV where issues usually get resolved in an hour. If the writers can't come up with a new theme, fire 'em and hire some who can or do like The Closer and go out on top before the show sinks to the bottom. It's not the new day that has the ratings dropping but the tired storyline.
So is RJ hiding in plain sight, do we already know him ? Of Course Ray Haffner is playing us all...he's too darn good looking to be playing it straight..
And that leads to this ultimately; how creative can the writers be? They needed to release RJ info, only they did it in a more blatant way with such an on pour than anybody would have imagined. Jane already has probably narrowed down possible RJ candidates to 20-30. Sooner or later, that list will go down to 1. Once he finds the name though comes the real game. First off, going through all of RJ's alias's(which will be very hard, he's deliberately set them up as such). Going through his moles. Going through law enforcement which will conceal everything about him and make the investigation impossible. Fighting the danger he possesses. We're going to see that theme Bruno talked about this summer now; CBI moles vs non CBI moles, identifying which is which, and having a plan for both. For Jane to get RJ, he's going to need to elicit information from people who know him like Lorelei, Stiles, etc while in a constant battle vs insiders of law enforcement. Lets see what the writers can do with
And that leads to another thing: RJ at some point is going to be narrowed down and under the gun. He's going to have to protect himself, hide himself, and that means you'll see Volker type cover ups and concealing of information X10. And on top of that, he's going to have people in the CBI doing deceitful things to gain a leg up and when he needs to, there probably will be casualties. Not just amongst his friends in law enforcement either(to prevent them from talking for one thing). Lisbon will be in danger. And how about this: Jane is in danger also. From the moles and from RJ himself. At some point Jane is going to pindown an RJ candidate, and RJ is going to have to protect himself. And at some point that mean's he's going to have to go after Jane in someway. He won't kill him, we already know that won't happen, but he's going to have to protect himself and he'll go to anything to do that.
I hope they wrap this Red John business soon, it's getting tiresome.
So now you have someone in the CBI who knows RJ and about him and here's the key: Jane and Lisbon know he will know who RJ is. WOW. Does that add drama. You can bet RJ is keened in on the fact Jane and Lisbon know that he was in Visualize. What this will come down to is how much can Jane conceal about how much he knows about RJ so RJ doesn't find out how much Jane knows if that makes any sense. Think back to the season 3 finale: Jane said knew stuff that RJ didn't knew he did and JAne said "I'm one step ahead of RJ but he thinks he's one step ahead of me so he's really two steps behind". Its going to be the same situation here, how much can Jane conceal that he knows. He can't act on his leads right off the bat. And wow, does it show trust in Lisbon, who is a terrible liar and can't keep things private, to share her in on this information. Out of character for Jane, even this season, which makes you think maybe he's not leading her on to all she knows. Hmmm we'll see.
@RS: Nobody's sure, in fact it's quite the opposite, if your interested in the details look at the dicussion from the last episode, but season 6 is definitely in doubt and when you see a storyline crammed like this it gives you even more doubts. I could complain about the idea of how they just crammed the storyline and how forced it seemed(really one picture to random priest is the breakthrough to finding who RJ was after 5 yrs of intense plans with nothing to show for it?) but ill get to that some other time. Anyway, so here's what we learned. 1) Stiles not only knows RJ, he probably is really good friends and works quite well with him. If RJ has his minions murdering people, I can only imagine what Stiles has done, although I doubt its as violent. 2) Hafner also knows who RJ is and about him. This is really where the mystery and intrigue is, because I don't think there going to find Stiles anytime soon.
Hahaha ... Who does lame commercial network tv on Sunday nights ....let me guess Basic Cablers / Roof top antenna geeks ....
I'm surprised no one mentioned the final scene. Jane looked like he's was losing it-that the isolation and focus necessary to recreate the thousands of handshake contacts had taken a toll and he was slipping into a form of dementia. And, I thought that Grace was playing with the priest, much like Jane plays with people.
I actually really like Ray Haffner. I don't think he's a bad guy.
And I agree - this is the most corrupt branch of law enforcement in history. In reality, the federal govt. would probably come in and shut them down. I've never heard of a situation where cops were more likely to be killed at the station than they are out on the street.
I really don't feel like we got such a huge revelation. We already knew there had to be some Visualize connection. Stiles did tell Jane where to find Kristina Frye- that was a pretty idiot proof hint that Stiles knows Red John and most likely from Visualize. Even the age range is not shocking. Jane said in an earlier season that RJ was his age (40 something) or older. OK, great, so now we know he's not older than mid 50s. Somehow, I never expected him to be.
I just wasn't impressed overall. Though I did like Lisbon's party.
Haha the beginning was hilarious...Rigsby might be not the brightest bulb in the box but he sure was the reason for some very funny moments. Lisbon on the run from the stripper was priceless...also Jane's dry comments made it even better^^ I also loved the last scene and his gentle "come here partner" My jisbon heart was pounding. Looooved that episode! Love that whole season tbh. I think season 5 might be the best yet... I just hate that now there won't be new episodes for 3 weeks. It's torture to say the least!
How sure are we that there is going to be a sixth season? Things seem to be coming to a head. But I really hope the series goes on. It's a shame how the ratings have dropped way down since the show was moved to Sundays.
It seems too obvious that Haffner is Red John - he all but admitted that he worked at the farm, he's the right age, he has inside knowledge of the CBI, he has unlimited funding for his criminal activities through Visualize, etc. It's so obvious that the writers probably want us to think this, and they're going to throw us a curve soon enough.
I don't think Rigsby is an idiot. The stripper was clueless on his part, but wanting to celebrate Lisbon was lovely. It was his way of saying "love you" and that is something they all need. I loved the "Come here partner". My children think that RJ is Stiles' apprentice and it is out of "familial" affection for Stiles that protects and permits him to get away with helping Jane a bit. Perhaps only in ways that further RJ's wishes.
@Entwife At the very least knowing RJ was at the Red Barn in '88 gives him a target age range to eliminate individuals from the list. Confirms gender as well. A youngish male painted it.
b&w&r, Love your droll comment at the last episode about having something to talk about for the next 1-2 months until the next episode. If they dawdle in the plot line on top of that, I don't know if I can make it lol. You're right. This episode was the loaded baked potato. I still haven't organized my thoughts about it yet.
Okay, exaggerating about the CBI suspect list, but seemed like there were several from seasons back. Made me think of the conversations here from the last episode. This episode really speeds up the RJ investigation. But I have no clue how knowing RJ was at the RB helps Jane narrow his list. Another thing, apparently as soon as he heard about the RB discovery, Bret Stiles got out of the country. We should get some major motion in the show now, I'll be extremely disappointed if we get more dawdling after this.
Wow, I had to love Lisbon's party! Seems like the entire living CBI suspect list had at least a walk-through, even CBI Ron! It was funny! Thank you, Rigsby! But not for the stripper.I found Ray Haffner to be rather menacing and slimy, turning up three times to pump Lisbon for information about the red barn case, obviously for Visualize. The job offer was probably an enticement to get her off the RJ case. If she left CBI, who would Jane partner with to find RJ? Lisbon's the lynch pin for that. Visualize is very jumpy about it, for good reason, and we have to assume Red John already knows about the investigation. Wonder if it will flush him out?
Decided Patrick Jane is Red John-- split personality-- a long time ago. Whether or not he was preceded by an earlier RJ (who is still alive and sometimes acts as RJ, too-- e.g. Stiles) is open, though.
So, Patrick is actually hunting himself; something which clearly amuses Stiles.
Grace? Definitely Visualize material. Great scene with the priest. (Remescent of her classic meeting with Stiles-- only time I recall her wearing eye shadow. Was that a clue?) Even so, Grace seems too young and too consistently straight as a team member to have gotten much into the Red John business.
As for Rigsby, his RL existence has to be pretty rough. In the series, he's got to be #1 on everyones list as the CBI teamer who dies valiantly (to make up for being a twit all these years).
Nice that Lisbon and Patrick are officially partners. Could be she felt mentioning Haffner was, at the time, a distraction. Also, it might have come across as self-serving since she turned down a big pay increase
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