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Jane: This is Red John. Lisbon: How can you tell? Jane: Because when it's him I can feel it.
February 20th, 2013 10:44 PM
@ rationalgirl,
Yes, you read it too. I've tried (rather unsuccessfully) to make your point to many others here. The only other person Baker could play would be Sando. Winton's novels have successfully made into movies in Australia. I know of none in the US. Heath Ledger had obtained the rights to make "Dirt Music", but everything has stalled since his death. I'd say the plot was more about control and the desire to push past and ignore what is needed be it the literal need to breathe or to develop healthy relationships. It is all about avoiding complacency. I liked the book, but I've been reading Winton for some time. So I can see it being made into a movie, but not a surfing movie. And, I must confess that I have never read or heard Simon Baker say he wants to make Breath into a film about either surfing or 'Straya.
February 20th, 2013 10:42 PM
Totally off subject now: I was looking at some pictures of Simon Baker the other day where he is at a beach in swimshorts. It looks like he has a huge scar just under the ribcage on the right side (at least 20cm - 8 inches long). Does anybody know something about that?
February 20th, 2013 10:25 PM
Thank's for the compliment, KM! I'm trying to wrap my swiss-thinking brain around these big english words :-)
Well, a first attempt to call each other by their first names has been made by Jane, when he drank this Belladonna tea! We'll see where this goes - hopefully in the direction I would like it to go!
Rationalgal: I have not read the book, but it sounds risky to put such a statement in a movie! We all know how teenagers are - have to try everything! OMG, my oldest will be one in just 2 weeks! HELP!
February 20th, 2013 10:08 PM
I agree they are moving together with these signs of mutual comfort. Love this discussion! Re the film Simon wants to make, I read the book, "Breath" with mixed feelings. Simon obviously wants to do a film about surfing and Australia, but I see no way he can play a significant role without a major rewrite of the plot. Almost all the action invoves a 15-year-old boy, narrated by his older and wiser self. What bothers me is the plot's emphasis on asphyxiation to stimulate a strong sexual response. Good Grief! This film would appeal mainly to teen boys and no matter how the film warns against this stuff they are sure to be encouraged to try it. The story is all about challenges and taking chances. This aspect of the story is NOT GOOD!
February 20th, 2013 9:56 PM
@ bonaduz,
You communicate wonderfully, marvelous multilingual you. I think you are right and he did want to comfort her then. I think, purely anecdotal, that wounded damaged people fear allowing themselves to be comforted, because it is harder to protect yourself when allowing someone else to care. Walls make great protection, but they sure do limit both the scenery and experiences. We have him calling her partner, finally a response to 4*24's 'I thought we were partners!". When they can allow themselves to call each other by their first names, then we will see a more vulnerable connection between them, in my opinion.
February 20th, 2013 9:33 PM
KM: I wish I could use words like you do! Sometimes I get very frustrated with my language barrier! Another moment where I think Jane wanted to give Lisbon physical comfort but she sent him away (confirming your observation about her) was in the ep. where Lisbon was accused of killing the child rapist and Jane hypnotised her in her appartement. To me it felt like he soooo wanted to take her in his arms, but she wasn't ready. But that was season 2, I believe. Maybe things have changed?
February 20th, 2013 9:29 PM
@ Entwife,
Me, too. My sibs and I got through some awful experiences in just that way. Which is why I think Jane would have rejected any attempts to comfort him. Maybe in season 5 he'd more willing to accept a little comfort?
February 20th, 2013 9:26 PM
@bonaduz,
I should say that I see the character of Lisbon to be walled off as well. She does emotional involvement, but her body and expression has a distance required quality to it. So she needed to hold Jane's hand as much as he needed her too, in my opinion. She needed comfort after his 6 month wicked games spree.
February 20th, 2013 9:15 PM
@ bonaduz, My guess is that Jane, the character, wants very much to be comforted. He chooses to put a wall up. He chooses to prevent the very kindness and comfort he needs. He has made himself emotionally withdrawn. That is why others, especially Lisbon, are shocked by physical expressions of affection from him. And, that is why his taking Lisbon's hand at the end of 4*24 was so beautiful. More beautiful than a Jisbon moment. Beautiful because he allowed himself to seek comfort and she gave it to him. She held his hand. That's how far he has come on his journey, how far they have come. If the Rachel attack came in season 5 the couch scene might be played differently. He's opened enough to let her see that he needs comfort and she's grown in her awareness of how he shows that he cares and reaches when he won't. Isn't that one of life's secrets that we learn to recognize how love comes to us and stop insisting it come the way we wish?
February 20th, 2013 9:07 PM
I loved the Where's my apple scene. To me, the banter between friends who understand each other and even shared the experience discharges some of the pain and trauma and allows them to move on and re-find their equilibrium -- IF they're on the same wavelength. It doesn't solve the problem or eliminate any further issues, but gets them to the next moment in a basically healthy, positive way. I thought it totally worked.
February 20th, 2013 8:59 PM
And yes, you are right KM! Shaky and wounded does not give anybody a card blanche for rudeness. Ever! No excuses for his behavior!
February 20th, 2013 8:52 PM
Oops, didn't read your comment before I sent mine, KM. Thank's for your compassion! No PTSD on my side! :-)
February 20th, 2013 8:49 PM
KM: reading your characterization I have to agree with you. I'm sure he is aware that his actions can hurt people, as Rachel pointed out to him. But he can also be very compassionate (when he helps Dr. Steiner with his suicide for example) and I'm not so sure if he doesn't expect that kind of compassion from other people (Lisbon) as well. Maybe not in that situation, where physical pain was done to him, but I think he's not so keen on beeing teased in other circumstances. I think he is longing for comfort (what human beeing is not?) but just can't accept any - yet. So I do feel sorry for him -would he be a real person!
February 20th, 2013 8:37 PM
@ huisclothes and bonaduz,
May I say that I'm very sorry if witnessing Jane's suffering caused you or anyone other audience member any kind of suffering. I'm very sorry for your feeling upset and if there was any PTSD inducing moments, huisclothes. I have mine. It isn't pretty.
I agree with you that the poker scene was better for comedy.
February 20th, 2013 8:30 PM
@ Bonaduz,
When does shaky or wounded or anything else excuse bad behavior? It doesn't. Ever. There are always reasons, but not justifications for choices. He could have said thank you. But he did not. He was insulting and belittling instead. He was rude and he got ribbed. His rudeness was not an excuse for her ribbing either. But, the bottom line is Baker and Tunney unscripted chose to play the scene that way. That is what they wanted for their characters. They didn't want 'poor Jane' and so we did not get it.
February 20th, 2013 7:59 PM
Agree with you huisclothes. A cattle prod REALLY hurts! Rachel poked Jane quite a bit with that thing. The poor man would have been pretty shaky at the end of the day and probably not up to jokes!
February 20th, 2013 7:51 PM
@ huisclothes,
True he was hit hard with the cattle prod. I think she was hit briefly as well. But, he was being warty. He couldn't thank them for all they did. He even went so far as to belittle it. He makes digs implying that without him they can do nothing. So I don't share your feelings of being so upset for his character. Nor do I think Patrick Jane if he was real would; his character is aware enough that his compassion and altruism has limits, and his choice to be withdrawn and overly self focused and obsessive causes others greater harm on a regular basis. His character would prefer to be teased than comforted, and her character knows it. He is the flawed tortured hero, but his not always a kind or respectful or likable one. And, I like him anyway.
February 20th, 2013 7:27 PM
"where's my apple?" was a cute jibe. and tunney are a great duo for adlbs. but....he was just tortured. like water-boarded only with a cattle prod. i know they played the episode very lightly and i like the dialog but i found myself sitting there thinking, "they just tortured patrick." this is textbook ptsd territory. still can't look at it and not be upset. i agree it's wonderful when actors just riff in a scene but...the poker thing lent itself better to comedy.
February 20th, 2013 6:49 PM
@ black white and red all over it,
I agree. I've read threads of people hypothesizing moving TGW to Friday, but scoring 1.3 would kill that idea in the opinion of many on those threads. I wondered in they would move CSI to Friday and thus open a week day prime time slot for a new drama. I don't know and I wonder at my wisdom of even attempting to try and understand what makes some shows work and others not.
Rank: Recurring Character
February 20th, 2013 6:37 PM
@KM: TGW could honestly score 1.2's the rest of the season and I don't think it'd really impact CBS's decision. That's their pet, and like you said they often go in directions that aren't just about what's best for ratings with these lower end fringe shows for cancellation every year. The only thing that could bring down TGW are issues with syndication, an actor pulling a fake Simon Baker and wanting out of their contract or something unforseen. It's not impossible, but I definitely don't think the odds are in favor of TGW getting axed, unlike TM TGW never had good ratings, they've always been bad. CBS has clearly seen enough in this show to keep at it for 4+years and put it in a decent Sunday night slot. What we can hope is if they are looking to move TGW to 10 next year and a new show at 9 that they move TM to Friday night. Not likely, which is why this isn't great news there flirting with moving TGW around, it might show what they think of TM since they're definitely not looking to
February 20th, 2013 6:29 PM
@ huisclothes,
No idea about the herpetologist with the hair twisting. But the "I'm gonna smoke you" was all Baker. The entire post card shuffle was unscripted fun between Baker and Tunney, according to the writers. They riff off each other well. Reminded me of the "Where's my apple" scene on Jane's couch.
February 20th, 2013 6:23 PM
@ huisclothes,
Maybe it was tied into the dinosaurs. Jane was specific about who got which. Cho left his on his desk. Rigsby took it with like a child and spent the evening googling it. Maybe Cho had it with Rigsby. And was seeing Rigsby at the moment as a tall chicken with teeth. After all Rigsby is bringing a girl he supposedly does not love coffee, coffee she likely did't ask him to grab for her. Just a thought...
February 20th, 2013 6:19 PM
patrick saying to lisbon, "i'm gonna smoke you" was so wonderful. i've only seen that trying to contain a laugh face once before. can't remember in which ep. will think on it.
also, in the master class scene, why did the actress who twists her hair say "paul?!" when paul moved the animals? was she seeing him steal the moth? don't get why that was in there since if she knew paul had the moth in his pocket, it would steal jane's thunder when he had her read the prediction.
February 20th, 2013 6:13 PM
thinking about cho calling out rigs by for not admitting he still loved grace. that was an uncharacteristic interchange between those characters. almost like cho was playing jane. jane is the character who would say that. cho is smart and would think it. but only jane has that elegant 19th century formulation. cowards don't get to say goodby. i remember when cho said stuff like "you're gonna die alone." but that was more off-hand. this is very arch for cho. anyway, just an observation. not an arch one, i hope.
February 20th, 2013 5:20 PM
@huisclothes and @Mimi -- that it's a classic shot is exactly why I like the buff beach photo! vive la difference!