The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: Unforgivable Things > Comments Page 7
@watcher. yes, of course, you are right. so that's 37 without the farm guys or wainwright.
@husiclothes. Yep. He would play both parts right up to the end when the personalities are integrated. Gruesome, eh?
I'd love to get info about the 2 or 3 victims killed between red dawn and the pilot. we assume those were investigated by jane.
@husiclothes - in season 2 he also killed towlen morning and the reporter that interviewed kristina frye, and there were 2 snuff film students, so that adds 3 more in season 2 for 9 total
cont'd from below
so i get 30 victims by the end of season 3 if i include classic r.j. murders and rj affiliated murders. in season 4, 2 victims. panzer is killed by red john. the morgue attendant is killed by red john. season 5, 1 victim, lorelei. unless you want to count the two guys found on elliston farm.
sometime in there, he killed miranda and it's not clear whether wainwright was still alive in the limo before darcy shot him. probably not.
so 34 if you don't count the two guys on elliston farm and wainwright. so he's slowing down. and all his activity, that we know about, is centered around jane.
@rationalgal. so at the time of scarlet ribbons and the trial, there were 28 victims. in red dawn, there were 10 victims, one year after jane's talk show appearance (in which he mentioned 8?) so the 2 added are angela and charlotte? then 4 years later, at the time of the pilot, there are about to be 13. so in the time between red dawn and the pilot, red john killed 2 or 3 victims. then in season one, 3 victims. he (or a minion) killed jared renfrew and a prostitute and emma plaskett. which brings us to bosco in redemption who says there are 15 victims. in season two, six people are killed, three by rebecca. one by red john at the dr's office. then rebecca was killed by r.j. then the crazy snuff film girl by r.j. season 3, 9 victims. todd johnson killed 4, then todd was killed. then the art dealer was killed. then the bomb guy was killed by gupta. the two cops guarding hightower were killed by o'laughlin.
@rationalgal- seems like RJ was not very active for a few years. If it was 8 on the tv show, and 12 in the pilot, then other than Jane's family he only killed 2 other people in several years (4 years or so had passed between his family's murder and the pilot.) Kind of lazy for a serial killer. Dexter does much better than that!
@km have a good night. glad your dog is feeling pretty well.
I'm back to counting dead bodies. Just checked Season 2 and the first ep said RJ had killed 15 people. So there were 8 murders mentioned when Jane went on the ill fated TV show, then 12 mentioned in the pilot in Dr. Wagner's note, then 15 at the start of season 2, then 28 that Jane mentioned at his trial. So the known murders between those of his family and his trial total 28 that RJ has killed. (More since then related to Panzer and Lorelei, with additional murders done by RJ minions, some by RJ himself.) This leads me to think RJ does not do the killings all by himself and there are a number of RJ surrogates doing murders. Timothy Carter we know about, also coma guy. So RJ may certainly be one person, but he also has others killing in his name.
Great catching up with all your thoughts and theories, all. Missed you!
Busy day for me with Theodore John and his oncologist. He's still the wonder doggie, living beyond expectation and not acting sick.
And, welcome fellow PNW-er, pahometowner! In my opinion all opinions, theories, questions, concerns, favorites.... are welcome. So bring them.
Søde drømme. G'Night.
so red john is the primary personality and he has black-outs and is patrick jane? and bruno has given himself an out and is able to tell the truth in that simon baker plays patrick but patrick doesn't know he is red john?
Thanks huisclothes for the info on the site ;)
@huisclothes, well in a nutshell I was thinking of so many fans thinking Patrick Jane is RJ. Of course Bruno Heller has said it is NOT PJ but I don't think he named Simon B. as not bring RJ. So I said what about Red John is having the alternate personality. We don't know who he is and only see from Patrick's perspective. What happens if RJ is suiscidal sp ...sorry ,has blackouts and we only follow Patrick J. Then I said it would be very creepy to learn that the damaged character I love so much and want to fix, along with millions of women fans, has the unknown side of a killer. Someone posted that "don't you think Patrick would be aware of his blackouts and lost periods of time?" To which I answered back that he doesn't sleep well, nobody knows where he goes when not at CBI and he has said he only tells Lisbon thirty percent of what he knows. Basically I just turned some other theories upside down so that it wouldn't be a lie if RJ had the problem instead of Patrick. Bruno H
@ani as promised, i re-watched black gold and red blood. man, that thing never gets old. such a perfect episode.
so regarding how he opened the handcuffs: here's what happens. when lisbon meets jane in the visitor's room, she has a pen. jane plays with the pen almost through the whole scene. later when he's in the cell, during the montage in which he rips the sheet, ties it around the bible and winds the sheet around his finger, we also see him unscrew the casing of the black plastic ball-point pen and pull out the refill. this refill is what he uses to pick the lock on his handcuffs the next morning.
it was a pleasure to see this ep again. thanks for giving me an excuse.
oops forgot to add, we all switch to discussing the new episode right after its review is posted. ostensibly the topic changes to that episode but it zigs and zags after a day or two. nobody's an enforcer here.
@pahometowner ooh, washington state. so beautiful.
the way it works is that christine orlando, the writer for tv fanatic will usually post her review on monday. if you post earlier when there is just a summary of the show, your comments won't be part of the main thread. so search tv fanatic with the name of the episode. if you see no review, come back in a few hours. the people are respectful and there are some great thinkers and really good writers. so what's your absurd theory? i usually post at least one a day.
hope this helps.
i have friends who like menty but no one who's into it like me so this site is great for me. welcome.
BTW I don'th live there any more. Moved to seattle area.
@huisclothes...pa is Port Angeles. Wa. I was so stuck in a posting name. I like yours and others so much better. A question....when a person posts here do you usually stay on the same page as it were and then change when the new episode comes? I tried it on page that had a few words of explanation from a producer on the series. Not much traffic there. I put out what was judged to be an absurd theory. Was just letting the juices flow. Not well received lol. Have just been trying to find my way around the site and soaking in all the posts. Really helps with my obsession regarding Simon B. and The Mentalist. Keep going and I will keep enjoying! PS at lunch today I discovered three people who follow the show. This was face to face. Husband was courteous and let us three babble on.
@pahometowner yes. it's the desert island syndrome. when you've been around each other that long inhabiting this hunt-for-red-john bubble, you develop deep feelings, some of them romantic. can't be otherwise. it's biology. aside from the fact that their desert island has a very comely population. what town in pa?
You know a lot of time passes that we have no knowledge of. I am of the opinion that things have happened between them in the 10 years that they have been together. To keep the show floating, only tiny bits, like bones, are tossed out to us. This satisfies both the fans who wish for no more than a platonic relationship, and the rest of us want to see them as a couple.
I just don't believe that in the ten years they have worked together, nearly blew up together (more than once) to name just a couple, Patrick's nearly drowning, and other near fatal incidents, that there isn't a tight emotional bond there that has had a sexual flavor in it somewhere. Obviously, we are not meant to know about it but gees, sometimes they act like an old married
Couple. The episode about Patrick's near drowning (i guess he really was dead for a bit because they did perform CPR on him)
Really spoke to me about Lisbon's love for him and of course Devil's Cherry where he says that Lisbon knows him.
About Jane's mother. Obviously he had one, but she must have died when he was born or soon after or possibly ran off, with Patrick's father saying she died. He still wears his wedding ring, indicating an abiding sense of loss. Jane feels no sense of loss or it would have shown in his face when he talked with Dr. Wagner. He knows of his father's loss, so perhaps keeps his own wedding ring on because his father set the example of showing ongoing loss. Could it be that Jane's mother was one of Red John's first victims? But his father won't talk about it? I'm hoping the incoming Irish psychic knows something about Jane's family history and can shed light on what could be an important clue to understanding the RJ plot angles.
Now about Jane strangely escaping from jail with all his clothes: Obviously the writers dug themselves out of a hole. Jane starts to explain it to Cho, then the scene fades and we get no answer. Reminds me of a Star Trek Next Generation ep where the crew ended up back with the crew of the original Star Trek in which the Klingons looked normal. Worf, in full current Klingon makeup, was asked to explain the massive change in appearance. He just muttered, "We don't talk about that." More writers digging themselves out. Also reminds me of a cartoon: Student physicist covers blackboard with equations. Near the end he has written "Then a miracle occurred." Professor says, "Perhaps you should be more precise here." Let's hope the RJ mystery will not end like this.
sorry. that's "y'all"
@rationalgal I find I don't try to talk too much to people about TM. Most indicate they enjoy the show but are not caught up in it. I subject them to very little of my own indulgence because their eyes start to glaze over. It's like talking computer to someone who barely knows it. You lose 'em fast. My friends like that I have someone else (ya'll) to hash these things out with. They can feel happy that I'm happy with it. Just don't drag them too far along. Like that.
back to my american musical examples. i think i learned everything i know about life from the songs. madame liang in the king and i. she's the first wife. he's got lots of others. he's a remarkable, beautiful man. like a child and like the best man you've ever know. "he may not always say what you would have him say. but now and then, he'll say, something wonderful. the careless things he'll do. will hurt and worry you. but now and then he'll do something wonderful." google the rest. i think that's the narration in lisbon's head.
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