Ah,its so good to hear from the queen,Tonya B is not one to be taken lightly my friends if one can recite the history and facts of the show it would be Tonya ,i would put my $ on her!
Someone who analyzes the details and searches for clues for a living had better have a few reservations about a notorious player who's heading into a third marriage and has only been their significant other for under a year. I like Castle too but he isn't a realist, he's had a posh life and it has left him spoiled and under-prepared in many ways. It isn't as though we haven't seen him be controlling or even taking her for granted once the relationship began. Kate was also the one who said she loved him first (as that bleeding from a bullet wound moment hardly counts) and also gave Castle a drawer at her apartment. She's been hurt before, of course she's being (overly) cautious. She'd be crazy not to be.
Sorry Jase, but Kate didn't tell Castle that she loved him until 5x22 Still. Castle told Kate that he loved her in 4x23 Always, nearly a year earlier. Castle is a notorious player, really? As for a posh life, not until after his first big book hit, which he EARNED!!! He lived a hard poor childhood. Now Beckett had a posh childhood and has never wanted for money her whole life. I'm not sure we are watching the same Castle if you think he is controlling and taking her for granted. Name one instance in which Castle has been controlling to Beckett. I can name hundreds of instances when she has been controlling of him. About being taken for granted, Beckett sure takes Castle's help at the precinct for granted. What if he decided he didn't want to do it anymore? Sure, Beckett gave Castle a drawer. Castle gave Beckett $100,000 to try to catch her mom's killer in Sucker Punch. He set up a charity event to help fund a scholarship that he set up in Johanna Beckett's name. He is practically solely responsible for helping Beckett find her mother's killer. He saved her life in 2x18 Boom, then let her stay with him at the loft until she found a new place. He upgraded her to first class on the trip to LA and let her stay in his hotel room for free, where he helped her to find Royce's killer in 3x22 To Live and Die in LA. He agreed to live in DC with her and got them an apt together before she got fired.... Geez, I could go on and on with things Castle has done for her. But the biggest one, he has worked faithfully to help her solve murders for the last 5+ years now, without fail, for FREE!!!! What big important things has Beckett done for Castle in the last 5 years? List them please.
Tonya--What big important things has Beckett done for Castle? In "Dreamland" she saved Castle's life--which you would have known had you seen the episode.
I don't want to sound like I hate on Beckett or something. But Castle's theory-building is what leads Beckett to turn around the car and head for the the Secretary's house. The team was heading towards the conference location, when "Castle" starts the theory building. So technically, Castle saved his own life. :P
Just kidding, or maybe not!
Seriously, while your point maybe slightly valid, that doesn't make Tonya's invalid. The balance of their relationships is definitely skewed in favor of Castle when we look at things done to help the partner.
However, if I were to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, one could also say that, Richard Castle, as seen from the beginning of this show, hasn't really needed any help. When the series began, he was a best-selling novelist, with a perfect daughter, and practically had everything in his life. Money. Fame. Fortune. Happy Family. All of the Above.
The series has always been about how he helps bring Beckett out of her shell and makes her connect to the world again. To do that, he needs to help her to gain her trust and blah and blah. That's why if we take their relationship in the context of this series, it feels like Castle has done more for Beckett.
Within the context of this series, we can say it is unfair to compare what Castle has done for Beckett to the vice-versa.
Comment modified at November 16, 2013 14:55
Spot on! As I said pages earlier, and you agreed, anybody who thinks Castle is a spoiled playboy needs to rethink their perspective of the character. Until his first best-seller, Castle would've been knee-deep in money-trouble.
As we agreed earlier, this depiction of whatever Beckett does is right because she's a walled-off, emotionally-stunted woman due to her mother's death has to stop. She needs to be held accountable for a lot of relationship issues she's had in the past.
As often happens to me here, my comments have been held for moderation. I write that only as a way of letting you know that I did read and appreciate your comments. Hopefully my original response will be posted.
One questions the reason for the marriage,not sure about kate,she told lannie its weird to think that i'am going to marry castle.Well at least so far this season she isn't demeaning to castle,but she is still unwilling to sacrifice for rick,not a comforting thought for one who will be walking down the isle with her.
I wondered about that statement to Lanie myself. Castle needs to ask Kate why she is keeping the apartment if she's calling his loft "home" and talking about "our bedroom." If so many viewers are asking the question, Castle should be as well. Also, I thought it was weird that after Kate asks Castle to move the Linus picture, and he does, she tells him he didn't need to do that and she sounded really sincere about it. Having the "old" apartment gives her leverage and it reminds me from earlier seasons about her tendency to look at relationships in terms of "keeping one foot out the door".
Could be residual Kate insecurities. We humans often take awhile to fully heal and grow. Especially when it comes to feeling worthy and confident in a relationship. That was a major part of Kate's issue in the later half of season 5, I don't think she felt worthy of Castle. Now she knows he loves her and values her and it can move her further forward. I'm enjoying the improved communication, kindness, and caring.
Agree. Great point. I just don't want to watch some kind of insecurity arc forthcoming by Marlowe.
Comment modified at November 15, 2013 20:39
Tonya B. Good point about the apartment. The writers need to be careful with this because it could start getting "ugly". It is increasingly coming over like Kate is using her apartment as a refuge point. If she is living with Castle, she can’t just walk out the door to her "old home" when something happens. You can understand her wanting to get out of the loft when Pi was wandering around their bedroom in an earlier episode, but that was weeks ago. There is more talk next episode about wedding venues, but they never talk about moving in together given that we are already 8 episodes into the season.
Comment modified at November 17, 2013 16:43
I don't see Kate's not moving into the loft as anything other than her trying to navigate unchartered territory for herself. She's NEVER been this deep into a relationship before and being engaged, she's just trying to find her way and do the right things. I'm sure deep down, she's probably a little unsure of herself. I've also read somewhere on the net that her apartment is rent controlled and in NY you don't let them go if you don't have to. Maybe she wants to keep it in the family for Alexis or Martha. Who knows, we'll find out soon enough I'm sure. I'm glad that she's taking her time. Too many decisions are made hastily and regretted latter. Be sure your ready Kate, then go for it.
Agree. It just seems like the writers are stalling the issue for no apparent reason. Recall that Castle bought the DC apartment for them on his own and she was ecstatic about it. Your point about the rent control is well taken.
Comment modified at November 16, 2013 10:46
To me having Hunt come back to get Bracken would be ideal.
Until that occurs the wedding is problematic in my view.
wow Kate Beckett arresting Senator Bracken, Wouldn't that put her up their as a political hero. She might even get some people asking her to run in later years!
Any chance we are headed for a 'runaway bride' episode? Just curious. I sure hope not, but we continue to see very subtle insecurity signs in her behavior. I keep going back to the 'Time Will Tell' power plant scene. Simon tells Castle he can't believe he marries Kate "given all that crazy stuff that goes on between you along the way".
Comment modified at November 17, 2013 19:28
In reality, Hunt is a CIA assassin. Bracken is small fish. What if Pi is a spy trying to get access to Hunt so he can finally eliminate him. Alexis was just his access point to get to Hunt. It still makes no sense that no background check done on Pi after lost passport excuse. Also, the father returning could become a moral dilemma if Castle and Beckett uncover concrete evidence while working on a case that his father committed a murder (in the name of his job) and it doesn't sit well with Castle at all.
Comment modified at November 15, 2013 19:31
Agree Vince that Hunt's return will somehow create angst. I think Castle was impressed by Hunt being a spy and of course grateful for him saving Alexis. Castle didn't have time to find out much about him. As for Pi, who knows his role in anything or even how Alexis feels about him (other than it obvious he's important to her). We haven't seen much of him.
I would be surprised if Hunt took out Bracken. He might however set him up to be taken out by Beckett.
Really enjoying the angst being outside the Caskett relationship and how well Rick and Kate are working things out like mature adults. Communication and compromise are critical to relationships.
That's a good theory. It is pretty obvious Alexis and PI are not in love so something is afoot.
Bracken would not be business for Hunt it would be personal.
maybe he could kill Pi !
Agreed, there has never been anything stated or subtext that Alexis and Pi are "in love". For me, she's interested enough in him to move in with him. If Pi has a hidden agenda, we'll just have to wait and see. Same with their relationship.
if I was NF I would be totally cheesed of at my part. I wrote about this today on my tumblr blog.
By the way you poms have brought the rain with you.
It looks like rain this weekend in Sydanee!
Check out the 6x9 promo. Our alpha male Castle is beating the crap out of somebody and he is mad as hell. He only acts like that when his Kate is in danger. This writer (David Amann) did the 3XK episode as well as most of the other dark episodes(Setup, Pandora, Target)
Comment modified at November 15, 2013 01:18
Oooh. I missed the part where Castle beats the crap out of some guy. Now I cannot wait for next weekend.
And I agree regarding Alpha-Castle. Remember how Lockwood had the crap beaten out of him in S03E13, I believe. And it's not just when Kate is in danger. Castle torturing the minivan driver to find the location of where the kidnappers took Alexis. When Beckett asks, "I didn't know you had that side to you." Castle: "When it comes to the people I love, I do!"
Totally Agree. I suppose that side of Castle comes from his father, the spy killer. Recall from 5x15 "Target" what his father did to Roger Henson to get him to talk. He tortured him and then executed him. When Jackson Hunt returns, I think we will see a dark side of spy daddy that is not favorable towards having a lasting relationship with Castle.
Comment modified at November 15, 2013 01:04
Mmmm have to agree Castle is kind of a wuzz and wimps out a lot.
If I was to write that character or bring in some changes I'd say bring back Captain Mal. he never took *Shi*!
Castle needs to grow a set.
Our Tonya Aclass . I agree with Christine.
I find it very very strange that Castle who has been married twice has no idea about sharing re Linus whilst Beckett would like the room to be theirs not his.
to me this is overtly showing that Beckett has learnt a lot since her selfish self centred decision to go to DC which was a total contradiction to accepting a proposal.
Beckett is changing a lot whilst Castle seems to be going backwards.
Sorry grumpy old man, I must disagree with your disagreement:) Also, I did watch a clip of the whole scene. I must also argue that she seems to want the room to be theirs, yet she has not relinquished her apartment because she still wants her own place to run off to when there is strife in the air. Bottom line though, it was his room first, and if she wants it changed, she should have ideas to make it theirs before she comes out and just tells him she doesn't like it. Did she ask about the sentimental value before she asked to move it? Of course not. It would have been so much more realistic if she were the one to come up with the seashell idea, but I doubt she is capable of it. I think you have fallen for the fact that she is being nice again most of the time, but I'm afraid it will come back and bite you in the arse my friend.
Nottrampis. Remember what AWM said at the start of the Season, that Castle may not be who he thinks he is! If Marlowe now goes down the route of Castle having self doubts about marrying Beckett, then the show is doomed, having said that, Marlowe has always shown Castle to be the idiot, so this is true to form!!
PS: What do you guys think of the internet rumour that NF has had a total meltdown over the emergence of the Beckett character over his own, and he wants it fixed. Personally I think it is crap, but you can understand his alleged point of view, this show is now all about everyone, apart from Castle!
Ukno1sf, where did you hear this rumor? I would like to read about it. I would understand completely. He has been trashed so many times, in so many different ways, that I wouldn't be surprised if he refuses to do S7, if there is one, even if he is under contract, possibly calling it health issues from his back or such.
First of all, let me say that I did not watch the episode and I am simply responding to statements made above in the TV Fanatic review. It is merely my own opinion that the statement "Kate countered him perfectly at every turn," which was made after Kate's snappy quote was quoted, " And if you want to be invited into my territory again, you should probably rethink that," was simply awful. Basically, you are telling women that if you don't get your way, just threaten to withhold sex from your man and he will come around to your way of thinking. This is NOT right.
Secondly, once again, we see Castle as the one who has to give in for the 1000th time. Linus had great sentimental value for him but he was forced to remove the picture under threat of losing sex. Once again though, Castle proves how much bigger a person he is by creating something sentimental to both of them to hang in its place, while Beckett proves how much smaller and more selfish she is for 'demanding' it. For gosh sakes, she's a big girl now, so just toss a sheet over Linus when you go to bed and take it off when you wake up. A tiny inconvenience for something that means a lot to Castle.
In my opinion, Kate's comments about Castle being invited into her "territory" were made in jest and were pretty amusing. I don't believe it was ever meant as a serious threat. And Kate wasn't asking Castle to throw the picture away, simply move it to another room so that she didn't have a giant lion glaring at her in the middle of the night.
Yes, Castle did eventually acquiesce but that's because it is still very much his loft and therefore he holds the power there. By moving the picture and putting up something that was a memory for both of them he showed that he wanted the loft to be THEIR home. Kate appeared both thrilled and grateful by the gesture.
I thought the episode did a great job of showing this couple deal with the issues of two independent adults beginning to merge their lives together.
I encourage you to watch the episode. If you still feel the same way then we'll simply have to agree to disagree. :)
This was the exact response that I expected to get. I actually did watch a clip of the entire scene and didn't find it as funny as you did. My ultimate point begs the question, what if Castle refused to take the picture down or move it? Would Beckett's statement remain in jest or would it ultimately become serious? You already know what I think would happen. In my opinion, if she found the picture so scary, SHE should have taken the initiative to try to come up with something to replace it with that was special to both of them. Like a few others have expressed, it has become enormously tiresome that Castle is the one who is ALWAYS trodden upon and ALWAYS acquiesces, while Beckett does the trodding and always gets her way. So so far from the real world, my gosh.
We've talked about this - there's no "agreeing to disagree" on these here internets! :-p
In seriousness though, I'm with you, Christine - Beckett's comment was quite clearly in jest, but one would need to watch the episode to see that in the context of their conversation and looks on their faces. Beckett saw the opportunity for a good joke and she zinged him.
I do agree with the general comments though that Castle has generally been the one to yield in the relationship. This particular instance isn't as important because, as you said, this was more of an invitation on his part than an acquiescence to Beckett's will. But he has kinda been everyone's doormat for the past few seasons.
I think Tonya's point, though, is that it's ALWAYS Castle who acquiesces. It's gotten very repetitive, in addition to really eroding the strength of his character.
This episode, taken as an isolated story, was great. Taken in context with the rest of the series (not something Marlowe is terribly capable of doing), it's just another part of a constant pattern that has all the power in the Caskett relationship concentrated in Beckett. Castle gets tugged this way and that by her wants and needs, and has for the last two seasons.
Great episode. I loved how Kate wanted Castle to move Linus into his office because she was creeped out by him and the way his eyes follow you everywhere you go. Castle asking Kate to get rid of her elephants because he didn't like them and she said ok and him saying he actually likes them. The end with Castle moving Linus and putting up the sea shells he and Kate collected from their first walk on the beach in the Hamptons was really sweet. I can't wait till the next episode.
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Sometimes the hardest things in life are the things most worth doing.
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Sometimes the hardest things in life are the things most worth doing.
Castle: How do you know when you're in love?Beckett: All the songs make sense.
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All the songs make sense.
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Castle: How do you know when you're in love?Beckett: All the songs make sense.
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