@Entwife / Katempw you two have engaged my curiosity. An opinion in an opinion, positive or negative. Why are you bashing people because they don't like what you like or want to talk about what you want to talk about. We know it's a TV show and I'd like to think you know that too. It's ok that you liked it and it's ok that some of us didn't. Instead of bashing us, engage us in something that might take our minds off our disappointment. I think that would be a nicer way to handle what you may be feeling. The floor is yours ladies, I'm looking forward to your comments.
Did anyone notice that the CBI team members were hand cuffed behind their backs by the FBI but when they show them in the vehicle with Abbott, they're hand cuffed in the front. HUMMMM? JUST DETAILS!
Here's my explanation of why cordeiro didn't feel the pigeon in Jane's pocket.
Every time Cordeiro put his hand down the pigeon just moved out of reach. :-)
This is just the funniest thing to me. Then I picture Jane sitting on the bench feeding them, wild birds abd now he has one in his pocket. Being quiet! It just makes me laugh. Here Red John, I want to show you something. Man- o- man! I just get the giggles!
@Rationalgal, they really did contradict themselves when McAllister said no one knows who I am. But countless people, especially Lorelei said they did know who he was throughout the series. They sure did yank all the mystery out of Red John. I can't remember who said it, I think Entwife. She said that shows years ago use to hire people to watch past episodes so that they would have continuity. It's apparent that they didn't employ any such person. Heller is doing so many other things there is no way he could have paid close attention to this series. Maybe this was the problem. His mind was everywhere else but where it needed to be.. How many other shows was he working on? How can you think straight juggling so many different projects. So he delegated his duties and his ship ran aground. Greed!
@Rationalgal, about Jane. He seems to show up as a man with desire with every women except Lisbon. With Lisbon he shows up as needy and needing something from her. Always making esoteric statements and then acting like he doesn't know what's up. He trashes Lisbon and then says he sorry. He been doing that for six years. Now he's off boinking some other chick in Ecuador. It looks and sounds like he loves Lisbon. Maybe this for me is that I'm not taking into account the writer's tease with this whole thing. For me it's a ridiculous notion that a woman with any self esteem would wait and watch a man flirt with, have sex with other women until he decides to make his way to her. It's kinda like watching the tv 14 version of Sex and death 101. Except that Lisbon is just waiting around for Jane to get finished with his exploits. How arrogant this all seems. Come here partner, we must have lost the meaning of that somewhere, probably right after he ditched her. The writers are making this relationship look really foolish. I'm starting wonder what the writers really think about women because they seem to show some pretty negative stuff on the far left end. We'll now have a chance to see what they are really up too. I bet Jane's first words to Lisbon will be I'm sorry!
So, from now on, I'll watch the shows episodes, I'll like them or not like them. They will either make sense or not make sense. I no longer care if they have some hidden reason for their storylines. They showed me exactly where they can possibly go. I'm not interested enough for another wild ride. I'm still trying to make my way home from the last ride in a neck brace. I'll be watching mostly cause I like Simon Baker now. Nothing more. Heller can smell rocks!
As much as I want Jane and Lisbon to get together, I don't see how. There back grounds can be looked over. They are both intelligent enough to engage each other. But Patrick Jane has shown over and over that he is a bit of a womanizer. Let's discuss why he has sex with everyone else except for Lisbon. I just find his behavior disgusting when it comes down to being in a relationship with Lisbon. He toys with her and then he's off, jumping into the bed of another women. Come on, would we put up with this kind of garbage. Hell! No! Lisbon is capable of finding the right person for herself. To me this is another case of having smoke blown up our behinds by the writers. I hope they don't blow this too! No woman in the world deserves a Patrick Jane. I find his behavior towards Lisbon ridiculous. He plays her like a violin, occasionally plucking a few choice strings so he can play her again later. I really wonder if his relationship with his wife is the way he recounts it.
He did play his female clients (aka, marks) out of their money. His one client even committed suicide because of his crap. He ruined another man's family. All for the sake of a dollar. So tell me how you go home and turn into this moral loving person at the end of the day. The answer is you don't. I'm starting to wonder if Jane killed Red John out of sheer possessiveness and selfish wounded pride. I would like to know how he juggled his two very different life styles. How do you reck people's lives through the con and then think you are untouchable. You live by the sword, you die by it. This is what happened to Jane's character. This took it's logical course. Now the question is, if he keeps fooling around with Lisbon's feelings, will that take it's logical course? So, for me really looking at Jane's character, he is the one messing up his own life. His redemption will come when he realizes that he has been his own worst enemy. Why should he get a chance to drag Lisbon down with him if he's not willing to change. Jane's wife begged him to stop his bullshit. This says a lot, she knew the dangers of what he was doing. He was so arrogant he couldn't see it and lost his family because of it. Why should he get a pass on this. Jane's character shows a very criminal element. He's not the smartest person in the room. He's the smartest person in the room, in his own head. Jane said many times he was using his job at the CBI to seek his revenge. He was tellingbus the whole time what he was about. I'm not sure how his quest for revenge was turned into the mission of a saint. Jane is just a cute cuddly pitbull that will bite the shit out of you if you get to close. He didn't do the CBI any favors by working for them. He had to do it or he would not have had access to the files. In retrospect, how is it he just turns up at the place that just got the Red John files. It's because he planned it that way. I have to give it to Simon Baker because he slipped this con man right by all of us. We were so busy feeling sorry for him that we couldn't see who he really was.
Now maybe if the writers can get this part right, it could turn out great.
I just really do not give them that much credit because if that where they were going it would have turned out differently. If we were to look at the world from a bird's eye view, I'd say it's a pretty great place to be. We all fight the good fight every day. Sure things and evil ideas will pop up every day, always. It's not a one person battle, it's a battle we all have to fight and we won't stop. One person battle, never. We are all Patrick Jane's in that respect. I would never put all my hopes and dreams in one human being to save me from evil. Especially one like Jane. He is a stone's throw away from being Red John himself. He's so flawed and damaged that the only thing he ever represented to me was a man who need revenge for his own selfish reasons. Nothing more. Jane lives in a world outside the law. Most of us don't live in that kind of place. The writers made Jane a underdog to the great big monster. The monster beat up on Jane for 6 years. So of course we wanted Jane to beat this monster down. In real life, this would have never taken place and Jane would be in jail for life. So, for me this show holds no symbolic representation of real life. Jane is a fictional character and so are his exploits. The world that has been created for Jane is unrealistic, nobody lives there but the writers and Bruno Heller.
I think what really happened was we analyzed Heller's fictual follies to their logical conclusions. we took what was upside down and turned it right side up. So it's not surprising that people got upset at an illogical ending. You know what they say about to many chiefs in a kitchen. We saw the flaws in the thinking the whole time. If Heller had made his point clear there would not have been such big discussions about what he was trying to get across and what it could possibly mean. What amuses me now is that we took the tight corners with Heller and the writers and were right. Every time he drove us of a cliff we opened a parachute, scratched our heads and regrouped. We kept constantly saying the writers know what their doing. No one really wanted to say this was getting dumb. Some did and yes Rationalgal, they got jumped on for it! What we discussed on this site was very meaningful for me. I'll leave here a smarter person for it. We discussed the topics they threw up. We made their ideas work, we put them in the right places. Why would you give away your own intelligence to a vehicle that was so disconnected with reality. You are a very deep thinker Rationalgal, don't get lost in the hype. Your ideas about what was happening generated lots of discussion. But it was your interpretation of what was happening, not what was actually happening on the show. It was inspired by what you saw but ultimately it was a rationalization of how you saw things.
That is a good question.
I'm still thinking about this and about the symbolism. There was a lot of it, too much. Red John did symbolize what Rationalgal summed up. Heller put the world's evil all in one person. He put all the world's religion in one person. He put all the world's politics in one person. He put all the world's magic in one person. He put the occult in one person. He put the world's psychosis in one person. He put the hatred of women in one person. So on and so on. All these things were there. No wonder Jane is a atheists. Lisbon with all her cross rubbing showed more of a superstitious belief in her religion more then anything else. Life, death, murder, a messed up judicial system and the stupid gullible people who run all of it. Then you have all the evil people who run. There is no way one man could represent all this. Red John didn't seem to scare to many people in California. The whole world should have been shut down. Red John was a bunch of evil fantasy wrapped up in what people hold most dear or fear. If he had been one idea that was carried throughout the series it would have closed nicely. This was way too much. They should have had an exorcist in that church instead of Jane, a gun, some bread crumbs and a pigeon. Nice ending Heller.
This crap doesn't represent anything in my life, this kind of crap is why we have psychiatrist, gun laws and alcohol!
They shouldn't of killed Red John, they should have given him some XANAX! HE'D BE SANTA CLAUSE THEN!
If I seen extremely sarcastic it's because this was really silly to me. Red John, meh......
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