Rationalgal, you are just keeping it up, aren't you?!😃 I am a believer, I believe in God. I, like you being an atheist and your belief in it, see God's proof everywhere. I don't believe in psychics or any hocus pocus foolishness. I don't necessarily believe in religious boxes, but I do understand the necessity for them. who was by Jane's side? It was Lisbon's faith in a higher power. Without Lisbon Jane would have failed or been dead. So here we have to beliefs systems working side by side. This is where Heller' s use of ambiguity and philosophy work brilliantly. Was it divine intervention or just the causality of life? And arguments debate throughout the ages. This is how Heller used most of the philosophy we have been discussing. He created levels of intertwined infrastructure that had to be unraveled to see what he was getting at. Heller's writes had to be broken down and basically decoded to understand what the hell he was doing. This guy is deep and I appreciate him. Someday I hope somebody really sees what he and Baker really did. These guys deserve a humanitarian award. You have to know your history to know what this whole premise is about. I hope that one day I can meet Heller and Baker to discuss this show. I'm not a stary eyed fan but I just can't get over the effort and intellect that was put into this series. I'm actually inspired by it to tell the truth of it. I'm not sure how I feel about that either. It was tv, the dumbest form of entertainment on the planet.
Jane didn't have time to go back to school and now he had Angela to take of. He wanted a normal life for the both of them. His circumstance caused him to work on the fringes on society while he shielded his wife and daughter. Jane wanted everything he didn't have growing up. He had a wife and a mother figure to his child. He was a loving and caring husband and father. He was the bread winner and protector all while living on the fringes. All while having been shut out of the life he came from and the life he wanted. He became arrogant because he seemingly beat both of them and had been able to beat back his father's words a bit. He was happy and had the life he dreamt of. But Angela knew what Jane was doing in the streets to make them happy. She didn't care because it was business for Jane and nothing more. Angela was his voice of reason because she knew the dangers that went with it. They had enough, he proved his point as far as she was concerned. Jane couldn't see that because he needed to be somebody, he had always been a nobody. WHO ARE YOU, HUH? NOBODY. This is why Red John kept taking Jane home, he wanted to pound into his head his roots. To say this is where your from clown, you ain't shit. Red John said, YOU DON'T KNOW ME, YOU DIDN'T KNOW ME. WHO ARE YOU? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? THAT'S WHY YOUR FAMILY IS DEAD, YOU ARROGANT BASTARD. YOU'RE A NOBODY. When jane was on the boat with Crystal he said, I knew it was you because you wanted me. Jane said that because he thinks is a nobody. A piece of garbage, a criminal. He didn't like normalcy because he wasn't raised in a normal society, so he spits at it at every chance he gets, even though that's what he really wants and wanted. Jane has been deprived of love and the physical touch of its embrace. That's how Erica almost got to him. She weakened him for a moment. Erica knew men and knew Jane. Jane's breakdown while he was embarrassed of it really empowered him. He has been mentally where most people will never go and he survived. Does he care what people think of him? Yes, and it fuels his self hatred. When Jane said he was fighting his demons, he was fighting for his life. He was fighting all those things his life was and wasn't. All the things he did or didn't do. He hated himself before he met Angela and more so after his tragedy. He used his intelligence as a sword and shield to fight life. The bravado we see out of Jane is only for self preservation. We have seen Jane grow throughout the series. It's just like in the karate kid, wax on, wax off. Now Lisbon will show him, he has overcome his ills and have been working a solid profession for over ten years and that he is as normal as can be.
One of my biggest things with this show was to know what Jane's mindset was. In thinking back on the series, I think I'm just about there. I wanted to know the psychology and driving force behind the character. It has been a bit of a mystery until I thought about the scene with Jane and Hightower in the hotel room. Hightower was holding a gun on Jane and Jane said, there is no one here except me and my demons and they aren't going to hurt you. So could you please put the gun away. Jane uses the plural form of the word demon which indicates that he is battling more then just Red John. This is where I then understand his character based on his behavior throughout the series. I wanted to know what is at the heart of this character outside of his tragedy. Who is he really and why does he seems mysterious. I think I may have found it. Jane was raised in an unfortunate environment and situation. He lived on the out skirts of society. His family was of lowly means and criminal. They were shunned by society and in so cases rightly so. Jane was raised up believing that how they lived was right. Jane was kept away from a traditional societal up bringing. They were nomadic, tribal and lived by their own governing. Le Roache, you have a brilliant mind and there's no telling what you could have been if you weren't so damaged. Jane's lifestyle was one of work, probably from a very early age. He probably didn't have much of a childhood. His environment and the way his father raised him probably didn't afford him much emotional or physical love. He had no protective love because he's been separated from his family and placed in the states custody. A very unforgiving and uncontrolled environment, especially for a young boy. This is a survival of the fittest environment. He's a bit of a womanizer because he was raised only by a man's point of view. At the young age of 15 he discovered part of who he was. Fleecing a dying gril wasn't him. But he was ok with fleecing an able bodied mark, it's all he knew. He also knew he didn't want the life his father planned for him and found the same thing in common with a girl within his own community. His father made him feel guilty by telling him how hard it was to raise him alone. His father made him feel like he owed him something and at the same time he also made him feel like an indentured servant, a mark. He lived in a dog eat dog environment. He was a good son as long as he produced and gave into his father's criminality. Jane lived a life of cause and effect, not right or wrong. He had no standards for it. That's why he says there is no right or wrong and things just happen. It goes along with things are just or unjust and the consequence of that was street justice. After he and Angela got away from carney life, he realized he did not have the skills to like normally in society. He never went to a school and did not possess what society required of him. He probably did try to fit in but was shunned by the very people he wanted to fit in with. So he shunned them back and proceeded to fleecing the shit of those stupid arrogant marks. It was as his father said, you can either be one of them or you can beat them at the own game. Well.....since he couldn't get in.........
Heller shows his expertise by over lapping historical philosophy on top of modern day society and showing a comparative mindset. Old philosophical mindsets that still have validity today. To watch it play out against a modern back set is utterly intriguing and shows Heller brilliant expertise. Baker shows his expertise in how he plays this character. Now I understand why he said it was so difficult. For this alone, I will always love this series. Heller has set the bar really high. There has never been anything like this in television, ever. Rationalgal, I'm with you on this one. I wonder if they set out to do this or if it just occurred based on the storyline? Sort of like, the discovery of electricity!
I'm going to build on what you said about Jane and what I wrote earlier down the page. Jane was a con man, aka a criminal. Small time in comparison but making a good living. His arrogance led him into playing around with things he had no clue about. Jane was penny wise and dollar foolish. He mistakenly took his honed SKILL SET for INTELLIGENCE. Karen Cross said, even I know better then to taunt a serial killer on the air. Lisbon called it a gift. Jane is intelligent and he has common sense, but he doesn't use common sense very often. What Jane did was play in another criminal's territory. It was like mobsters stepping on each other or rival gangs trying to get the one up at the expense of the other. We know what will happen but we can see Jane clearly did not. Jane did not know he was playing with real human being monsters. It was all a game for him. Jane was use to beating house wives and distraught people out of the money. People who were pretty much harmless. His arrogance led him to believe that this killer was just as harmless. That's why Red John left him the note. It was to inform Jane that he was now playing with the big boys. Something he was not prepared to deal with or had any idea even existed. This is where he knocked on the DEVIL'S DOOR and was let into hell. This is where Heller uses the philosophy. This situation for Jane while it was real was also surreal. It was a nightmare-ish hell and his eyes were wide open. Why did Jane have a nervous breakdown? Because never in his naive mind could anything like this ever happen. He awoke to the reality that there are real live monsters living in the world with him. That these monsters are capable of some horrendous things. This leads you right into that philosophical place. You question GOD, you question your SOCIETY, you question JUDGEMENT, you question JUSTICE, you question LIFE and DEATH. YOU QUESTION THE SPIRITUALITY OF MAN. AND THEN YOU LIVE WITH THE REALITY OF IT. Then you become angry at the realization that anything can happen to you at anytime. What can save you form the evil lurking in the darkness waiting to strike. Belief in a God, belief in the justice system, belief in the kindness of man! NONE OF THESE THINGS SAVED JANE OR HIS FAMILY. SO WHY BELIEVE IN ANY OF IT? This event made Jane question his own existence. What is life about? Who will save me or anyone? How do I live past this? What will I do if I do live past this? Sophie Miller, you can give up and die or you can fight. What did Jane do? Jane summoned up every thing he had left which was anger and hatred. He collected himself up for a fight with the unknown. The philosophical portion plays very well here. It even has a air of mystery. Heller over lapped the philosophy to show a historical mindset that still plays itself out in a modern society. This is brilliantly written in respects to the storyline.
No pun intended but that's deep.
Here's what I think Heller did in using ideologies. Jane's character is an atheist. His persona is that he cons suckers who believe that there is something more to life then what he believes in. Jane's belief was there is no right or wrong and that things just happen. Jane doesn't believe in the justice system, only personal justice and people get what they deserve. Wouldn't this then be an oxymoron for Jane? Jane was playing games with a serial killer and the serial killer did what serial killers do. Then the killer played games with Jane for over ten years. Can you see the irony here? There is also a bit of dark humor here as well. What did Abbott tell Jane? He said, he has seen many great con's go down because they started believing in their own con. Isn't this what happened to Jane initially? He believed he was going to get a free ride on the back of a serial killer and was destroyed for it. His family was killed, he was institutionalized and basically lost everything he had. He ensnared himself in a trap of his own doings. Jane did learn a lesson and has been on the right road ever since. However he now needs to stop playing games with criminals before he finds himself back in the same situation. Jane has observation skills, and so do detectives, CBI agents and FBI agents. It's time for Jane to grow up and get a new profession and follow the rules. His game playing endangers everyone he works with. Haffner warned that he has angered some pretty powerful people and that they are out to get him. Why? The con! Even Columbo maintained his professionalism. Jane needs to put on a badge or get out of police business, it's not a game.
In all actuality, all Jane was fighting was criminality with personal ties to it. Nothing mystical about crime. Jane was fighting a psychological battle as well. He won by being able to declare his love for Lisbon. You could say he had a breakdown of sorts. A breaking down of the walls that kept him in hell. Jane lived in a dark place. Lisbon forced him to break down the wall and let the light in again.
What if Heller meant Red John would always represent death for Jane. Red John killed Jane's family and Jane has killed him twice. So we can see here that Jane was involved with death, a lot. He even wanted to commit suicide because of Red John and his doings. That statement would make sense in this kind of reality. Jane lived in a small world, the biggest part of Jane's world was Red John and I can see how Heller's statement would then fit and be accurate. Jane's life for ten years consisted of Red John's philosophies, brutalities and death. Jane submerged himself in this environment. Because outside of Jane's world and the world of his victims, Red John was just a notorious serial killer and nothing more. The state of California didn't put out any statewide alerts, no one really knew about Red John except for the police and Jane. Red John killed a news reporter, you'd think that would shake people up but it didn't. Red John was really contained to his 28 victims, Jane, law enforcement and Visualize.
Here's where my issues come in, death while it is real in a physical way, is not sinister and it does not leave a smiley face. The nature of death is not some scary monster that rapes, tortures and kills women. Death does not chase you around and play games with you. Death does not make phone calls. Death does not kidnap people. Death does not brainwash people. Death does not drink tea or wear clothing. Death does not ask you to be friends. I don't think Stiles was referring to death when he referred to Red John. I've never heard of death having a mistress. My point is we can not reduce the physical nature of what has gone on in the series to a philosophical euphorism. Death is not a free floating entity that hounds people. I understand that we all have to die but not a the hands of a serial killer. This can not be what Heller meant. The insidious brutally of Red John does not represent death. It represents depravity. If we were to all die by Red John's representation of death, he wouldn't have anyone to kill. I get the ideology behind death but not in this sense and not in how Red John was portrayed. How can you reason the actions of a serial killer like Red John to a notion of ideology? It's like saying the BOOGIE MAN is REAL! Or THE DEVIL DID IT! Red John was a real person, doing real insidious shit to a lot of people. You can not reduce the physical nature of Red John's actions to ideology. What we saw throughout the series was a well organized group of individuals killing and and talking about a grand plan. This is a irrefutable fact and can not be diminished to ideology. How Red John saw death is how he saw death. What he did and what is still going on is something entirely different.
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