I just finished watching also, since no one else is spoiling I won't but wow, I really don't know what to think of this episode, I don't like it, I don't dislike it, I don't know what I think of it, it was all just really surreal. I'm ready to discuss as soon as the review of this episode comes out later tonight.
Someone probably has already done this but here's my guess of 7.
1) Brett Partridge: This is my and many other's lead suspect by a good bit, everything fits well here, and he's on the finale tomorrow. I would be absolutely shocked if he's not one of the seven.
2) Osvaldo Ardiles: My second suspect on the list, he tried to put away Jane for life, theyve have some differences, I think the writers have him on it.
3) Ray Hafner: I don't think it's him but I think the show wants him on there and that he'll be on several times next yr to add drama.
4) Robert Kirkland: Jane knows there's something very wrong with him and a secret agenda, he's not RJ but the show definitely wants him to be a suspect.
5) Bret Stiles: He's not RJ but he knows who he is and has alot of good info. I'd be surprised if he's not on the list.
6) Jason Cooper: The wildcard, a pure guess, but I think the show goes with the Visualize thing and has him as a suspect.
7) Linus Wagner: 2A-2B on my suspect list with Ardiles, lot of strange wild things about him, he easily could not be on it but I think it would make sense for him to. If he's on the list, I think he's a legit suspect.
@KM: We fought and prayed so hard for a season six, I'm just absolutely thrilled to have that, let's not look ahead:) Anyway, I don't think it's realistic to expect anything more than that, Bruno in an interview after last season said he had "two or so seasons to tie things together", writers are usually the most optimistic people in the world about the fate of their show, he wouldn't have only said two if there a shot at more. Besides, he has said season 6 is the ending of the RJ drama and at other times he has said RJ would be revealed in the series finale. It's been obvious for years when RJ is caught is when this series is over, unfortunately we won't get to see Jane after RJ but I guess that's not really the focus of the show either(there just isn't enough plot or creativity from the writers to have a post RJ story). Anyway, that's not why I'm posting it's the night before the finale so I wanted to take a guess at who the last seven suspects might be.
Does anybody know if Kirkland is signed on for being in the finale next weekend? I didn't see his name under the list of cast for this week and if they want to start to tie this storyline of him murdering Lennon, next week is the last chance to do it this season.
No that is definitely Lorelei I doubt her message she reveals is as important as the show is trying to make it out in the promo but it's still interesting they decided to have her killed first then brought back.
Vint Mollinari: Another random name but someone that caught my interest a little. Had a major role in the Frye episode which was RJ centered and still a mystery. Again, alot would have to go right but not completely eliminated.
Ardiles: Probably the second favorite on my list. Has his role as an antagonist, has power and a vibe about him. I'm not fully sold here but there definitely is something to watch for. WE know he'll be back.
Richard Haibach: Honestly didn't remember him, he had a role in a major RJ episode but other than that nothing here.
So to summarize, lots of randies for sure, lots of people who only appeared once and were types you would never think of again. My list so far would be 1) Partridge 2) Ardiles 3) Wagner 4) Bertram 5) Culpepper but that obviously will change alot after next week and is mostly speculation. Interested to here other's thoughts.
Linus Wagner: Another name to watch. He's a convicted murderer which makes this way harder to be RJ but not impossible. I would hate him as RJ but he's weird, manipulative, twisted and powerful enough to do it.
Ray Hafner: Don't see it, the show really tried to make him look like a suspect earlier in the year, when that happens they usually are benign.
Tolman Bunting; Very intriguing person and background for sure, but he'd have to reappear for me to take him seriously.
Royston Daniel: Too random. Reede Smith for some reason intrigued me a little for a second but a no for him also.
JJ LaRoche: Two years ago I liked him for it, not now, his role on the show has been established as something else.
Minelli: Another guy who was once a favorite but too much time has passed without him having much of a role after he was so big early on.
Mashburn; A suspect on many people's list but not mine, not the killer type, sees more interested in power and money and lust. Don't see it at all.
Tommy Volker: Another name that will intrigue many but too obvious and/or would make the show look bad. I think his role was only Lisbon antagonist.
Brett Patridge: The favorite in my book. Has alot of the characteristics, voice, under the radar and talked favorably about RJ. He's also going to be returning next week. Definitely someone to watch very closely.
Jason Cooper: Another random who for some reason kind of piqued my interest, but unless we see him again there's nothing anything here.
Ellis Mars: Another popular sleeper, I don't see it but this was also the episode with Tood Johnson. Too weird and foolish to be RJ.
Glenda Snow: The only female on the list. Way too random but interesting CBS chose to list her.
Donny Culpepper: Maybe the sleeper here. They alluded to him last night with Brenda. Alot has to go right but not someone I would completely eliminate.
Markham Shankar: The only non white male. Nothing RJ about him.
Gabe Mancini: He was sketchy, and CBS did say there was an insider in the FBI. I don't think he has much of a role but maybe there is as FBI trouble.
Kirkland: The guy everybody will suspect but way too obvious. Would make the show look really bad. I still think he has his own completely diff agenda.
Max Winter: Another sleeper, intrigued me a bit. We know very little about him but if it's a random guy who ends up being RJ, he's the type it could be.
Sherriff McAllister: Never saw him after the pilot. Would be symbolic if RJ ended up being a guy we never saw again but also incredibly stupid.
Just for fun I'll go through the list of 30 RJ suspects and talk about their potential viability.
Bret Stiles: Its interesting CBS listed him as the first suspect. He's probably 1 of the most important characters in uncovering this RJ game but he's not RJ(although I'm convinced he know's who RJ is)
Don Henderson, Dean Harken, Asher Maclean, Paul Fricke: All too random, the only one that made me raise my eyebrow even a bit was Maclean but no.
Gale Bertram: CBS initially made him look like the mole back in the finale two years ago. Maybe that's not a coincidence but no I don't think it's him.
Doc Dugan: The idea of a guy coming across as dead but not really being it would be interesting way to have RJ but he's the most random of all.
Judge Manchester: Too old, but wouldn't shock me if ends up having some role
The episode itself was more just above average than anything special, it had the potential to be very good but the second half was rather dissapointing, they figured out Brenda was the leak WAY too easily and this ended up being nothing more than just another CBI mole which the show has beaten to death. There was nothing else unique about it, they could have done more with the mexican guy who's house was being raided, amongst alot of other things. Now that I actually understood the ending it makes a little better, but there are still left over questions like why cut the tongue if your LaRoche? How could no one else have known about this, especially if Scott was saying LaRoche's name at the end? Also, as has been the case much of the year, the characters beside Jane and Lisbon were cast aside as afterthoughts. Van Pelt and Rigsby just had a big moment, no follow up? I give the show credit for finally showing some continuation of prior story lines(especially from 2 years ago) but they could have done alot more with this.
Yea Linus Wagner is the other guy I forgot about who would be an intriguing Red John candidate. I don't think it's LaRoche(too big of a character) or someone who was that high up in power like Minelli or Bertram. For years Red John has been described by those in the hierarchy as behinds the scenes and as the "waldo" type character. Alot of those suspects to me have no shot of being RJ, but I think it still is interesting who the show chose to make a suspect. Brett Partridge is my new favorite for Red John, and he is on Jane's list of the final 7, he definitely has alot of characteristics that would fit an RJ. That said, this choice will probably change 3 times before the end of next season when RJ is revealed. I'm really interested to see how they integrate Lorelei into the season finale as well.
So I'm still sticking with my idea that RJ was seen in the first 3 seasons from that tweet the writer had, I know no one agrees and we'll just have to see but there's no way anybody with a sense of PR or common sense would put out blatantly wrong information like that especially for a show that's been on the fringe of cancellation.
@Watcher: Yeah, the list has a number of surprising candidates, several I don't remember well at all honestly, many with just one episode appearances. For me, the two that stood out on that list are Brett Patridge and Oswaldo Ardiles. Patridge was second on my list after CBI Ron for a while and Ardiles always was someone I never totally eliminated. Of course, 3/4 of that list will be gone in a week and both could also be off(although Patridge is going to be on the show next week). Btw, the promo for the finale didn't look that suspensful at all, and the fact the show didn't have anything really leading up to the finale makes me believe this finale is going to be rather light on RJ developments.
Btw they just posted the final 10 of the list of red john suspects, no CBI Ron! Damn that was my lead suspect by far, it's not him then, and that is surprising but I'm also really relieved(that would far too predictable and really it would have been pointless, there's no greater message being sent there)
@Entwife: Yeah it was the tongue, actually it was pretty obvious looking back at it, I feel kinda of dumb now. I'm not sure if that was him saying LaRoche, LaRoche at the end, if it was that easy, LaRoche probably would have been charged or at the very least there would be way more suspicion of him and him potentially doing it and rumors starting about it. that was a good way of the show having the box content being revealed, but it raises a couple questions? We know LaRoche will break the law for his best interest, but why the tongue---to keep him from talking? Was there something else he could say that could defame LaRoche or would he be able to convince those of his innocence(remember they said at the beginning there wasn't much evidence for the crime?) They didn't go off that idea any more either which was kind of dissapointing, but I'm surprised there was no lead in this episode to the finale, the RJ story arch must be really light this year, that's too bad.
not a huge fan of tonight's episode, the first half looked good but this ended up being nothing more than the story going back to its initial crutch of CBI moles. Nothing more than that really. I for the record though like that the show didn't tell us what's in the box. The unfortunate part though is this red john arc basically is going to be a 1 episode finale this year, in previous years, we've either had a double header or two episodes in back to back weeks that were essentially related to each other.
Btw, why was the ending so significant of him having his tongue cut off, I just had trouble understanding why it was a big deal? Thoughts?
@Entwife: Yes that was some fantastic graphics and effects by the producers, those, Jane's smile at the end and the camera fading away on Kirkland and his map almost made up for the fact that there was basically nothing that happened in that development of that after the first 15 min of the episode. I still don't know what the show is trying to make Kirkland; obviously he's not some good play it by the rules guy like Wainwright was, but what is he? Jane's enemy? Perhaps maybe on Jane's side and he wants to get all the info possible rather than going through Jane and playing his game? I'm more convinced than ever he's not associated with RJ, but that doesn't eliminate much. Also, that smile could mean a million things yet it probably has a really simple explanation that'll become clear at the beginning of next week. I don't think he planted anything, I think he just acknolwedges that there is something greater going on and for a lack of a better phrase "it's on".
@Vlasek: I get what your saying but there's a difference between killing 31 people and having a whole agency built to deceive and manipulate people vs what Kirkland did. Murder yes, but people have to be careful about overstating how evil Kirkland and saying that that one murder shows he has the style and mindset of a Red John. Also I'll go back to the same tweet I have a million times, the writers tweeted back in Sept 2011 that we had already seen RJ in episodes before. No show with a semblance of credibility would just make up that kind of nonsense. Kirkland of course showed up after that, as did many of those suspects we saw on that CBS link posted. I just find it really interesting how there pushing "there will only be 7" before the end of the season, clearly there is some tricks up their sleeve. You have to extend a show a whole new season with their only being 7 suspects, you have to have some plan for that and it's not something we'll expect.
unless they plan on making 18/20 episodes random cases of the week, that means that there's going to be alot more to this show than just knowing who RJ might be and the obstacles to getting him like possible moles, protecting people like Lisbon and uncovering RJ's agenda and end game. I don't think we're going to get to most of it this season, but the fact that it looks like there's a deeper game here that exists is encouraging and not something i was sold on happening. Couple small things 1) Van Pelt has been so disengaged this season it just seems dumb to randomly have her with another guy. Last year she clearly wasn't ready for that, she was barely on this year so we don't know what could have changed. 2) The streak of CBI Ron appearances is still alive. I don't think that really means as much since this isn't going t o be the last season but it's still not insignificant. This is probably still the lead RJ suspect as of now(although I no longer think it's actually him, I'll take the field).
The Rigbsy and Van Pelt thing to me just reeks of a forced storyline; the connection/interactions they had just are so different than they were 2 years ago, the whole thing is just foolish to me and reeks of trying to pique interest in a cheap way. The storyline I generally liked, we saw Jane uncover his murderer in a different way this week although I'm not sure what the end message here was of son killing dad and son being attracted to his sister. The show could have done more with that at the very end. Here's what we know; the show is going out of its way to do 2 things 1) make kirkland beyond sketchy and scary 2) throwing the spoiler Jane will have his list down to 7 before the end of the finale. Clearly, the search is going to take on a very clear focus. That means there'll be change ups, as the writers have said "the battle will take on a whole new focus by the end of the year". The show has to go a whole season 6 with us knowing RJ could only be a few people, unless they plan on making 18/20 episodes random cases of the week, that means that there's going to be alot more to this show than just knowing who RJ might be and the obstacles to getting him like possible moles, protecting people like Lisbon and uncovering RJ's agenda and end game.
Also the show is advancing the storyline in a time period ahead of what I expected; I didn't think Jane would know Kirkland was on to his serious investigation until later, we already know he is with 3 episodes remaining. I was disappointed with how the second half of Jane vs Kirkland went; it was so promising to see them breaking in so early in the episode but after that nothing happened and the fact that the only time they showed Jane was at the very end when he found out about Kirkland means the writers didn't have anything good to put in the storyline so they just went to that cop out. Weak. Also that smile can mean a million things; I don't think it's Jane planted anything. I think Jane just knows it's on and that this RJ game is about to take another turn. I'm not even sure he knows it's Kirkland(although it would make sense based on the show's history for him to end up knowing him).
Another solid episode, the case was good and definitely above the norm for this season and the Kirkland story line advanced beyond what I expected. I'm now more convinced than ever this Kirkland-RJ minion stuff is complete nonsense. Before I just thought the show as trying to mislead us and playing that storyline too hard, but there clearly is a much greater game here Kirkland is playing. He's playing chess while everybody else is playing checkers and we don't know what Jane's playing yet. What this game is like I said earlier nobody knows, but it's much deeper and darker than we thought. I don't think it's just Kirkland wants to know who RJ is, there is something greater here. Maybe he's covering up some act of his, maybe there's a greater conspiracy, or maybe there's just something he really needs to know about the RJ case for himself. We'll see. We finally see someone against Jane in law enforcement who shows no regard for morals or the law and it's a really good change up.
In many ways I am conjecturing, we've just seen it too many times with this show before though with me not to be ready for it times. How many times they set us up with one idea really clearly and then completely change things up? They've just come so hard at the Kirkland as Mr. Sketchy and RJ associate so hard the story just has to be alot different than we expect with many more layers. Sure its speculation admittedly, but really that is what all this is. The precedence we have is of the show doing things the way they have for so many years that this Kirkland story to me is going to take on a very different direction and that it's too easy just to have him as an RJ minion. The writers knows RJ minions get killed all the time so they dont rat, I really think there just playing off that tendency with us. But only time will tell.
personal level or antagonizing him at a personal level. Ultimately, this is what the final 4 episodes are going to come down to. Kirkland knows Janes knows things and has secret plans(and the general theme of how he said this episode "when I am ever on duty?") and a mindset and Jane knows there's something with Kirkland. He'll probably know it was Kirkland who murdered Lennon or have some other suspicion about him. And then this will become a much bigger chess game involving the CBI, FBI and Homeland. What the end game is, what both want, we'll have to see but Lisbon is going to get tied into this and is going to have to decide what she believes and there is going to be a game Jane goes through of looking at everybody to see who is an RJ friend and who isn't. Nobody is safe. To me these last 4 episodes will be an expanded version of what we saw at the end of season 3, only now there's another game with Kirkland we know going on but don't know any of the rules for or the end goal.
Comments by black white and red all over it (Page 2)
Red John's Rules
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
1) Brett Partridge: This is my and many other's lead suspect by a good bit, everything fits well here, and he's on the finale tomorrow. I would be absolutely shocked if he's not one of the seven.
2) Osvaldo Ardiles: My second suspect on the list, he tried to put away Jane for life, theyve have some differences, I think the writers have him on it.
3) Ray Hafner: I don't think it's him but I think the show wants him on there and that he'll be on several times next yr to add drama.
4) Robert Kirkland: Jane knows there's something very wrong with him and a secret agenda, he's not RJ but the show definitely wants him to be a suspect.
5) Bret Stiles: He's not RJ but he knows who he is and has alot of good info. I'd be surprised if he's not on the list.
6) Jason Cooper: The wildcard, a pure guess, but I think the show goes with the Visualize thing and has him as a suspect.
7) Linus Wagner: 2A-2B on my suspect list with Ardiles, lot of strange wild things about him, he easily could not be on it but I think it would make sense for him to. If he's on the list, I think he's a legit suspect.
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
Ardiles: Probably the second favorite on my list. Has his role as an antagonist, has power and a vibe about him. I'm not fully sold here but there definitely is something to watch for. WE know he'll be back.
Richard Haibach: Honestly didn't remember him, he had a role in a major RJ episode but other than that nothing here.
So to summarize, lots of randies for sure, lots of people who only appeared once and were types you would never think of again. My list so far would be 1) Partridge 2) Ardiles 3) Wagner 4) Bertram 5) Culpepper but that obviously will change alot after next week and is mostly speculation. Interested to here other's thoughts.
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
Ray Hafner: Don't see it, the show really tried to make him look like a suspect earlier in the year, when that happens they usually are benign.
Tolman Bunting; Very intriguing person and background for sure, but he'd have to reappear for me to take him seriously.
Royston Daniel: Too random. Reede Smith for some reason intrigued me a little for a second but a no for him also.
JJ LaRoche: Two years ago I liked him for it, not now, his role on the show has been established as something else.
Minelli: Another guy who was once a favorite but too much time has passed without him having much of a role after he was so big early on.
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
Tommy Volker: Another name that will intrigue many but too obvious and/or would make the show look bad. I think his role was only Lisbon antagonist.
Brett Patridge: The favorite in my book. Has alot of the characteristics, voice, under the radar and talked favorably about RJ. He's also going to be returning next week. Definitely someone to watch very closely.
Jason Cooper: Another random who for some reason kind of piqued my interest, but unless we see him again there's nothing anything here.
Ellis Mars: Another popular sleeper, I don't see it but this was also the episode with Tood Johnson. Too weird and foolish to be RJ.
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
Donny Culpepper: Maybe the sleeper here. They alluded to him last night with Brenda. Alot has to go right but not someone I would completely eliminate.
Markham Shankar: The only non white male. Nothing RJ about him.
Gabe Mancini: He was sketchy, and CBS did say there was an insider in the FBI. I don't think he has much of a role but maybe there is as FBI trouble.
Kirkland: The guy everybody will suspect but way too obvious. Would make the show look really bad. I still think he has his own completely diff agenda.
Max Winter: Another sleeper, intrigued me a bit. We know very little about him but if it's a random guy who ends up being RJ, he's the type it could be.
Sherriff McAllister: Never saw him after the pilot. Would be symbolic if RJ ended up being a guy we never saw again but also incredibly stupid.
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
Bret Stiles: Its interesting CBS listed him as the first suspect. He's probably 1 of the most important characters in uncovering this RJ game but he's not RJ(although I'm convinced he know's who RJ is)
Don Henderson, Dean Harken, Asher Maclean, Paul Fricke: All too random, the only one that made me raise my eyebrow even a bit was Maclean but no.
Gale Bertram: CBS initially made him look like the mole back in the finale two years ago. Maybe that's not a coincidence but no I don't think it's him.
Doc Dugan: The idea of a guy coming across as dead but not really being it would be interesting way to have RJ but he's the most random of all.
Judge Manchester: Too old, but wouldn't shock me if ends up having some role
The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware
Red and Itchy
Red and Itchy
@Watcher: Yeah, the list has a number of surprising candidates, several I don't remember well at all honestly, many with just one episode appearances. For me, the two that stood out on that list are Brett Patridge and Oswaldo Ardiles. Patridge was second on my list after CBI Ron for a while and Ardiles always was someone I never totally eliminated. Of course, 3/4 of that list will be gone in a week and both could also be off(although Patridge is going to be on the show next week). Btw, the promo for the finale didn't look that suspensful at all, and the fact the show didn't have anything really leading up to the finale makes me believe this finale is going to be rather light on RJ developments.
Red and Itchy
Red and Itchy
The Mentalist Review: The Love Doctor
Btw, why was the ending so significant of him having his tongue cut off, I just had trouble understanding why it was a big deal? Thoughts?
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe