continued: as tyger tyger itself kind of suggests. You have to stick with what your identity is, for all its good and bad. I just really don't get what people want to see though post RJ story line that could constitute a whole season's worth of development and even into season 7(which I don't see happening). That case of the week stuff was getting vanilla last year, just imagine what it will be like with no RJ in the background? And to answer @huisclothes question earlier: Yeah, Stiles, Bertram and McAllister were all first 3 seasons. Haffner interestingly was episode 2 of season 4. I really don't think the writers are lying here(they never have) and I still do take something to that tweet one writer had in 2011 after season 3 of how we've already seen Red John. If you don't that's fine but to me that's the only logical way based on how Bruno has discussed RJ and this show's development to make RJ a character who has been shown for years.
Continued: I know I sure as hell will not to the same degree I am now. It's nice to say it'd be intriguing to know how Jane carries on his post life, but to be honest with you, beyond a few episodes it's just not that intriguing. Are people really that interested in having a show with random case of the week episodes, some new CBI-FBI characters to create a feud and the Lisbon-Jane thing creating an entire show? I actually am interested in knowing if that's the case. Because to me, that's really nothing of substance. I really do wish they had stretched this storyline over the entire season, and when you introduce a new Tyger Tyger organization FOUR episodes before you reveal RJ, that's the definition of rushing and forcing a timeline. I get they wanted to appease viewers and move on but you have to know who you are. The show decided they were going to the wire with this arc the minute they decided to rewrite that season 3 ending. There's no going back, you can't go half way, as Tyger Tyger suggests, light without darkness.
@huisclothes said something I've been thinking along time but didn't want to say because it's about as big an insult you can give the show; why in god's name are they so intent on finishing this arc in a whole month? What exactly do people who want this arc to be over want to happen next? This arc has been the entire premise of this whole show since 2008. You realize once you get rid of it there isn't just some magic replacement that comes out of the air? If you don't like the RJ arc, that's fine I get it, but then you're basically saying you're giving up on the show(which is completely fine I don't mean to portray that as a negative on those who do, that's not an unreasonable stance). This idea that the show is going to be able to keep up some great appeal post Red John is inconceivable to me. You really going to be interested in some CBI feuds post Red John when everything we cared about CBI-FBI feuds was how they related to RJ and his connections?
I'm always very weary to try to use a process of logical deduction and evidence from scenes and looking through fine details to try to show why someone is Red John. There will still be plenty of flaws with logic and the storyline with whomever is Red John. I think you have to look at it from the perspective of if you were writing this show who would you create as the show's central figure? A random character who showed up in the second episode of the series? A former CBI-FBI agent who's left and has a bizarre relationship with Visualize he froze when telling Lisbon about? A lower level FBI agent we only 2 minutes of until this year who suddenly has a major role in Tyger Tyger? A mysterious powerful man in Visualize and god knows what else? The Director of the CBI known for deception and a shall we say interesting relationship with Jane? None of these are ideal, but if I had to pick I'd go with the CBI director, he is most accessible in terms of power and one we've seen plenty of and feel something towards.
Anybody else feel like Kirkland ended up being kind of a letdown like Lorelei last year? So much promise and potential, people were thinking he had his own game completely and his role would completely turn this red john case upside down. Instead he's a pawn that this new organization that gets introduced just takes advantage of and while the game has changed, it's not really because of him. Ultimately though I tend to avoid trying to use logic and specific evidence to show why someone is Red John. It just doesn't accomplish anything, you can twist things and point to specific scenes to make a thorough case as to why anyone on the list is Red John or isn't. And when he is revealed, there will be tons and tons of question marks and things that don't tie up neatly. Many of those cases people had for other characters will still be completely valid and the questions they brought about them as well. There's just nothing we can do about it. So while I like to speculate who Red John is, I'm always very weary to try to use a deductive process based on logic and evidence from scrutinizing the details of the show.
@anitraward1: We've already kind of seen Stiles being deceptive and disingenuous. From the very beginning he lead on to Jane that he knows more than he could ever imagine. He intervenes here and there in mysterious ways(has each of the past two seasons with the erica flynn and breaking out lorelei martin's episodes) but always operates from a position of mystery. When Jane and Lisbon started investigating Visualize last year of course Stiles was on a trip and couldn't be present. The big problem with him being any kind of Red John is we just don't have a good enough feel about him. We know about Visualize, but what do we really know about them? The writers have created him as a mysterious powerful man which would describe the ideal Red John, but that's just bad storywriting to make the only true very suspicious person with all kinds of access, power and knowledge/connection with Red John be him itself.
continued: I know Bruno has said that the way this ending with RJ was written has been planned out in advance for a long long time. I've always long also felt that Red John is someone who appeared in the first 3 seasons as one of the Mentalist writers tweeted in 2011. We already have the show focusing suspicion on Thomas McAllister, Reede Smith and now this week Ray Haffner. They're saving Brett Stiles and his whole aura towards the very end but I just have a hard time believing these writers would stoop to making Red John Brett Stiles, that's just a bad ending on so many levels. That leaves Bertram. There are flaws with him as Red John, just like the others on the list, but he's the guy I'd be watching out for. Still think this comes down to Gale Bertram and Thomas McAllister, I just have enough faith in the show for them to go beyond Stiles as Red John.
Couple questions: Does anybody know how this tyger tyger revelation tells us why Partridge was killed first? Bruno said this episode would reveal that but I'm not sure I see it. Is it because Partridge was involved and had to be killed or that he knew something about it and had to be killed by RJ? But how can we say all that without knowing Red John's connection to Tyger Tyger? Oh and doesn't anybody else think that if Red John isn't at the front of this movement he wouldn't be too happy with other people using his key defining poem and phrase to symbolize something so important? The one thing we know about this show is what they try to make you believe is never what it is; right now the suspicion right now is on Reede Smith. I just don't think he's it, they just have to make everyone on the list look somewhat viable. You know the one guy who's been kind of overlooked by the plot this year? Bertram. The way this show is being written he's the guy I'd watch out for. I know Bruno has said they've had this ending planned out for years and I've long thought that RJ was someone who appeared in the first 3 years as a writter once tweeted.
Will be very interesting to see what happens, I hope next week's episode featuring Haffner is more like this week and not like last week's showing with McAllister which basically didn't get us any closer in the storyline. To give some positives, bringing back Hightower was great, she's the exact same and her basically working with Lisbon to save Jane was intriguing. Also give a shout out to the writers for not using the predictable ending of having RJ take down Kirkland, having Reede Smith is something no one saw coming. I'm skeptical of how they go about this all making sense and tying up all the loose ends in coming weeks, but it's something very intriguing to say the least. If you have any answers as to why Partridge was the first to die or anything more about this organization and its impact to the storyline and other characters please fire away because it's all kind of a blur to me at this point.
logically without some cracks. There's just so much information you have to tie together and explain if your going to introduce something like this, especially if you want to do most of that in 4 episodes. One other question: did we get an answer to why Partridge was killed first like the writers suggested we would this episode? Is it because he knew about Tyger Tyger or was part of it and had information that could give away Red John's identity? And what about Reede Smith, what position is he exactly in this whole organization and how is it him and not anybody else that Jane suspects as potentially Red John, particularly if he is just someone at the lower end? Finally, where do we go from here? Lots and lots of directions, lots of things to be resolved. Where as it looked like the show didn't have enough to drag out this RJ plot which is why they were closing it soon, now it looks like the opposite where there is too much to tie up in 4 episodes. Will be very interesting to see what happens, I hope next week's episode featuring Haffner is more like this week and not like last week's showing with McAllister which basically didn't get us any closer in the storyline.
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