Well there were some unique scenes to say the least, this episode had a different feel than other ones. Lot more jibing, interactions between the team(Van Pelt-Lisbon, Cho-Rigsby, Jane-Lisbon Bertram-Lisbon Jane-Bertram). All of these were big parts of the story. It just had a different feel with lots of sarcastic lines(Rigsby's "you date pregnant hookers" was the line of the night). The show really tried focusing on character storylines. It's really interesting they decided to pull the Jane turning someone away with the wedding ring and having that women make that line about natural selection. They've done it before, just not sure why now exactly, probably just for fun and coincidence but we'll see. The case itself was about as light as we've ever seen. 1) There was very little about the process of finding the killer, it was much more about the characters and showing the mentality of the school. 2) Almost all episodes the case ends with 2-3 min left with one final scene. This one the case ended with 7-8 min left. That's unseen before with the Mentalist, they really wanted to focus on some smaller storylines and show character development.
And the answer is his probably his power in law enforcement. If you ever try luring him into a trap like Jane did the past 2 years, his friends in the FBI or CBI get a hold of it way too fast and save his skin and make him look like an omnipotent evangelical force. But how much is too much, how much can you really rely on this inside presence in law enforcement? Because as the beginning of the review on this site said, damn there is just an insane amount of "moling" in the CBI. Just absurd. And the second biggest question behind who RJ is for this show is how can this be set up so elaborately and blatantly? Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever get a good answer to that. What they've created with this inside presence with the CBI has just become too great for their own good. Its the go to storyline when in doubt for the show.
What @anitraward1 is saying in a way has been one of the 2-3 biggest mysteries with this plot for me. It all dates back to when Rebecca was poisoned, how could nobody a) notice what happened b) anything been done? We saw earlier in the episode how they locked down the building and how a yr later LaRoche was so elaborately able to find out who was where and when during the Todd Johnson murder. How could the person who poisoned Rebecca(who was associated with RJ as Jane said) just get away? And more importantly nobody even raise an issue? Jane never even thought to chase down who did it. It speaks to that general idea though of how can RJ never be caught in a trap, how he can so openly just live his murderous life in front of everybody when everybody knows what he is doing and hes right before our eyes. That gap in the season 2 plot was just too much.
Out of curiosity what's the most they have ever integrated CBI Ron into the plot? That season 2 episode @huisclothes was talking about? At some point I would hope they really do integrate him in some meaningful way other than saying congratulations lisbon or let me get you some tea Jane, rather than us not knowing anything about him before we see him behind the mask in the finale. And that's the thing, if Red John's someone we had no attachment to, felt nothing about or knew nothing about, someone we couldn't relate to at all, then finding out who he is is kind of worthless. What does the show really want us to come away thinking if we find out someone like CBI Ron is RJ---never trust those you think are harmless? Hardly seems like a powerful message to build up 5 seasons and endless drama for.
@watcher: that tweet i linked basically confirms my suspicion they've known who RJ is all along. At the very least, it wasn't something they just decided on if 1.5 years ago they were telling people we've seen RJ in episodes before. That tweet also tells me that despite how much the actors deny it, they know who RJ is. They may or may not know how the plot ends, but they know alot more than they'l pretend. @anitraward1: I think you could say the same about alot of serial killers, being grown up in bad environments learning to hate humanity. And I agree that he didn't grow up rich, he wouldn't be on Visualize otherwise, but I don't think he necessairly grew up poor. What'll be interesting is if the show portrays RJ as someone who created his entire mystique and aura that lured so many people and that he created all his networks through his own power or if he already had alot of connections from a variety of ways and sources and built off that.
@entwife: Those lists even on legitimate websites are hardly ever perfect, its just a mistake on there part, not something intentional, they just didn't notice about pre mid 2010 or forgot to list it. The question for me is how the show will go about bringing the spotlight on potential RJ suspects, I doubt that we won't see anything about RJ before the series finale when the show magically reveals the man behind the mask and goes "Walla". We could see a situation 2 years ago where Jane narrows down a list of a couple suspects, but I think there'll probably be some other trick. Bruno said we would be dissapointed about the actual RJ, could he perhaps be warning us about CBI Ron, because he knows we know him and while I always have a very open mind, am very patient and pessimistic about potential RJ theories, I'm really struggling to come up with other legitimate RJ suspects? Suggestions on who else? This CBI Ron thing I'm really starting to buy.
@Entwife: not sure if you were being sarcastic or not(you probably were and I couldn't tell) but CBI Ron has obviously been in more than those 9 episodes since they didn't list anything from season 1 and his first appearance was the 7th episode of season 1. The one thing I'll say watching that Rigsby-Ron interview was how Rigsby said everybody knew who CBI Ron was and that there were many threads about him online, more than Rigsby himself. That tells you the writers know CBI Ron is a popular RJ theory. If Bruno openly knows this, and his whole goal is keeping RJ a surprise, those two obviously don't add up. And there's really no incentive for that interaction at the end "I can't tell you but I think we both know" if Ron really is RJ. That'd again make the show look really bad. Btw does anybody know when that clip was taken, how old it is?
That leaves CBI Ron whom was only one of two or three characters I ever even considered for more than 2 seconds as an RJ suspect. Now, with this tweet I saw from about 18 months ago, the evidence is that much stronger. You saw the video @mimi showed and yeah there is something compelling there. While the show is creative and full of tricks, its not THAT out of nowhere(there were alot of people who really thought there was a fair chance O'Laughlin was the mole before the finale and I knew Wainwright's time was up after the season finale last year so killing him off didn't surprise me either). In other words, someone like CBI Ron is perfectly plausible, it's not that obvious and the show hasn't shown a nature of being that unpredictable(how many inside jobs have we seen on this show?). There have to be other candidates for RJ who fit the Waldo description from the first 3 seasons, so let me ask; who are they? Suggestions?
Here's the biggest key: the quote said episode(s), not a single episode. That's not an accident. Its not ray hafner either(his first apperance was s4ep2). It was apparent watching that last episode 2 weeks ago there were red herrings but knowing this it's even more so. The writers are setting him up as a potential RJ suspect for a reason, we'll see what it is. Whomever RJ is, it can't be somebody who hasn't been on in several years. You can't realistically stretch the storyline so far back without information for so long. So it's not Mashburn, it's not Frye and it's not someone like that. So who's left? Who has shown up repeatedly and shown up in repeated episodes? Stiles is the obvious answer but like I've said before, that's way too easy. That wouldn't fit the Waldo description at all. So who does that leave left? You can probably guess.
Oh and btw there's 0%, zero, that Jane's family is still alive. Bruno himself said that he would never make Red John Jane himself as that's a total cop out. Doing this would be the same thing basically, just a horrible cheap cop out.
Anybody know if there's any chance they get Van Pelt more involved in the plot during the stretch run? She's been mostly an afterthought because of her pregnancy and basically this show has become a two person gig with Lisbon and Jane, we haven't seen any real development or intrigue from the others. Van Pelt's pregnancy has stunted the role and development of Cho, Rigsby and perhaps others in other words. Here's hoping they integrate the other characters into the show, Van Pelt interviewing the Priest at the very least was a start, as was Rigsby throwing the surprise birthday party. Let's see if they can build off that.
Volker's out of the story line I would be shocked if he came back, his contract was only for 3 episodes. But beyond that, Volker wasn't about RJ, it was about showing Lisbon's character development and pushing her to ways that she never would have let herself be succumbed to years ago. They never tried to show this through the lens of RJ because that's not what Volker episodes were about. And it would also be a total cop out if they decided they had wanted to tie Volker and RJ theoretically.
which is alot and the way the show has set her up that wouldn't fit at all with the narrative. I don't think she's going to give away RJ either just like that like we are hoping, in fact, I'm not sure if she's really going to give him away at all. I don't think this will be case of Jane eventually manipulating her, that'd be too easy and wouldn't fit in with the show. Jane does that to every character, Lorlei comes across as this mysterious manipulating devil capable of anything and loyal to RJ at all costs, he holds the key to her life in every which way. So with that said I have no idea what the show has planned with Lorelei, I actually wouldn't be surprised if it becomes clear she is working on RJ's side in an aggressive manner and tries to harm Patrick directly and go on attack mode vs him. Her loyalty to RJ has been seen through more indirect tacit measures before, it might become more aggressive and blatant in later episodes.
@Entwife makes a good pt about Lorelei and her name and yes she is meant for destruction for Jane. Two things will happen with her: either she's killed or she escapes and is never heard from or seen again and probably ends up dead a few yrs later anyway. Like she said in the opener, if its in RJ's plan to kill her, then she's ok with that, she doesn't really fear death and people who don't fear death tend to end up dead earlier. It'll be interesting to see how much RJ values Lorelei though, he could have easily gotten rid of her when in FBI custody and Lorelei thought as much that RJ had helped her escaped a few episodes ago(and there has to be a reason she thought that). It'd be interesting for the plot to have Lorelei be unlike other RJ friends, to look at her differently as someone he sees more valuable alive than dead even with the hazards that provides. In fact, I don't think this will be as simple as RJ getting rid of her, she's signed on for 3 more episodes which is alot and the way the show has set her up that wouldn't fit at all with the narrative.
The family obviously isn't still alive but let me ask, if in the finale you find out that's true, how would you view the legacy of the show? Would it ruin it for you or make you think worse of the show and if so how so? And would it make your lasting impression and thoughts when you think about the show alot different, what it's about, the lasting theme, everything you thought about the plot and its characters and what they did and their mindset, how would that all change if you found that out in the finale? I have no idea and I thought it was interesting which is why I asked, and speaking of mouthfull quotes, that question above probably topped it all.
It was interesting that to Jane RJ is more than someone he has shaken hands with. He eliminated those he shook hands with but never saw again. Like he said in the end of that episode back in November, RJ is someone I know. The show has set that up as the premise so let's see where they go with it. It's not going to be easy(although far from impossible) to integrate a character we haven't seen who Jane legitimately knows in anyway and not just in passing. They might have actually tied their hands up with that one; if they had just left it at shaking hands, you open up your leeway and possibilities.
anitraward1: If Lorelei was the one making the eggs like last season I'm not so sure. That might have been the closest we've seen him to heaven. @huisclothes: It's interesting, Cho and Lisbon to me would treat their spouse in similar ways. Both very stoic, both not wanting to show emotion, both capable of the awkward silence(which Cho has copywrighted), the snarky comments, neither really the type to verse in conversation or express much. Usually you can have one of these type in a relationship with the other constantly badgering them, to have them both like this in a relationship though? Hmmmmmmmmm, I'd like to a see a documentary on that. I don't think that would work long term, I don't think either would really enjoy each other that much and be happier from the relationship long term, and I don't think either would add something to each other's life to the degree most relationships go, but it'd be peculiar and pique my interest for sure.
just that much more important in your life. I've never sensed any romantic feeilng towards her from him, never, even when he was saying her name in his hallucination. He fills a spot in her life, he really needs her, but I'm not sure he really enjoys her so much. She fulfills alot of things for him in his life, and since he doesn't really know anybody else, some of those things in most guys life guy's could fill. But with Jane, it's all Lisbon, yet I still don't see any true love towards her.
With regards to the Jane-Lisbon thing, I always thought it was way overblown until the finale last year, not the "love you" quote, but Lisbon's face later on and how she had to ask him and the look she had in her eyes when she did. She clearly felt something and she was starting to realize she did. That's so un Lisbon to ask in that context off the cuff like that, she is much more reserved with emotions and feelings and that she did and the way she did it was a tacit acknowledgement of what she felt. Now, with that said, I still think this is overblown, I think Lisbon has started to realize there is some feeling for Jane, but she's just starting to realize it and not sure what she means. This is far from full blown love. Jane on the otherhand I'm not really sure, he clearly cares about Lisbon, but honestly I just think she's just a really good friend of his he can rely on and needs. Every guy has one of these, and when your Jane and don't associate with anybody, there just that much more important. I've never sensed a romantic component from him, even when he called her name in the hospital, she fulfills alot for him and for alot of people that would be love, but with Jane, its more complicated. I still don't buy he's fully ready for love yet.
Nah, look at what the ratings for the Mentalist used to be and what they are now, they were falling pretty significantly even in season 4 in a good time slot, people just don't stick with shows for the duration unless they really really like them. There are shows I like but my interest for watching consistently fades eventually. And this prolonged RJ storyline isn't adding any new viewers, it's only taking away. In season 1 and 2, the RJ storyline was adding viewers. Nobody who didn't watch before is now going to jump into the show near its end for this RJ storyline.
Oh and is it just me but hasn't the music between scenes and in the background of scenes gotten alot worse? They've kept the Red John music constant throughout, but compare what they would use in season 3 and now, is it just me or is season 3 soooooo much better?
I guess I didn't really back off the onslaught at the writers at all, I just added to it. Heh, I'll say this; their ability to portray Jane has been very good. They've done a great job creating an antagonizing, charming, addictive character while integrating the idea that he has a dark side and goes by his own definition of right and wrong and his own self motives and laughs at the law and its intimidating presence. That's very hard to do, create someone with such a boyish aura and charm who is so deceitful and willing to go to any length. That is the basis of why this show is successful. Patrick Jane and his charm are what the show relies on almost single handedly to drive it through many of those filler case of the week episodes they have in between Red John story lines.
And I guess that's the problem, the story archs themselves aren't as big a problem as I might have thought the more I looked back, its just they are so repetitive and Bruno looks at the idea of showing what RJ is about and how he operates, thinks and his style for something that should just be done out of force and cramming it down our throats at the very end just to say it's there. There are shows built around a man vs the bad guy arch but the focus is often towards the bad guy's side and watching his side work and relating and understanding them. It's just a problem in priorities and need for ratings, I guess.
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