Brenda is an important character so I'd expect her back but the show has thrown out things like "owing favors" in the past and hasn't really acted on it. Brenda more just did it because of the pressure Lisbon put on, adding a favor at the end was more just a formality. But I do hope they act on that Brenda storyline and that it isn't something trivial as to why she helped Volker.
Bruno has said in season 1 he had a good idea how the show would end, and you always have to give writers some benefit of the doubt, but the more you think about it, the more you have to agree there's something to what @Watcher's saying, there just seems no clear plan, it is helter skelter, what mood are we in today, type of deal.
@Watcher nailed it, those are the loose ends, I'd add the other one as why does RJ have a thing for going after top dogs in CBI(Hightower and Wainwright)--its more than just they interfere with Jane's life, Hightower actually encouraged his antagonizing ways. Also Stiles is an obvious loose end that was deliberately made that way. A show can only resolve so many loose ends, the rest really aren't that important enough you can dedicate time to so I do think we might have gone a bit overboard. Still nonetheless, the point still stands there is ALOT that is to be tied up in little time and it's not a good plan to give no real RJ info for 4+yrs then cram it down our throats in 12 episodes. Also there are loose ends in the past the show never really tied up that aren't relevant now but should have been then(how did an agent just get away poisoning Rebecca, the two Todd Johnson murder lists, why did Jane really think RJ would be at the mall in the finale 2 yrs ago). That's one of the problems I think we all have noted, its just nothing can be done now, its run its course.
Yeah it looks like we're going to get bumped. Golf in January what else is new, I bet it gets bumped for a special re run of the Titanic next time. Super Bowl next week and we aren't getting another show for 3 weeks anyway, this is what happens when your on the bottom of CBS's food chain.
Yeah if there's one thing that's become apparent to me the past 18 months now it's that this show isn't going to tie together most of the loose ends. Reading between the lines of what Bruno says and based on the show keeps piling on rather than sewing them together, there is going to be alot unanswered and while I'm not sure we're at the stage where the show is driving aimlessly waiting until the end, but it's not implausible either which is something I would have never thought would be the case 2 yrs ago. I'll say this though: some of these aren't really loose ends, just deep fans hypothesizing everything. I wouldn't call for ex Lisbon sleeping with Mashburn a loose end, just an interesting part of her character. Perhaps out of character(although maybe not as much as we say) but that happens with people, they do things you don't expect them to do and you can't really give a justification or deeper reason as to why.
I dont think Bruno ever said outright we've seen him before, I know in an interview before the season he said we might have seen him already. Also, I don't think its that hard to hear about things like people talking about you on TV shows, after all he is Red John, a man with all kinds of ties across the CBI, FBI and across the state with more friends than Paris Hilton. Word can get out pretty easily, remember, it barely took him anytime at all to kill Panzer and that was the same deal. As for the whole RJ monitoring Jane, we know the FBI was on this years ago as soon as Jane came into the CBI, that is probably RJ's main source of information about Jane. I don't know if RJ really knew Jane before the murder, my guess is he probably had some rough idea of him but really his intrigue for him came after murdering his family. I don't think that's something that's going to be a big deal as the show goes on, I doubt they really elaborate on that idea.
But bottom line, look at contract situations, when was the last time a person was on the show(this show can't ask you to link things back 2-3 yrs with no real current things going on). Its one thing to have fun hypothesizing about who RJ is and coming up with the most abstract theories you can(I actually encourage that). But if your REALLY trying to find out who RJ is, if your one of those type of fanatics, you gotta consider the things not shown in the show.I do really find @euterpe's theory intriguing though: Stiles the founding father and creator of RJ? Highly unlikely, but out of all the RJ theories I've been bombarded with, thats not one and its not unfeasible(which means its a really good theory). That would be a great twist on things, and the more I think about it, the more feasible it might actually be(which means its about a 3% chance of coming to fruition, thats just how the show is).
Susan Darcy: @rationalgal did a really good job laying out the evidence as to why she could be linked with Red John. But here's the deal, her contract was up after season 4 and they went out of there way to mention she was out of work and recuperating from the trauma in the opener. In contract terms, that mean's she's done and they couldn't get her back. She's not going to play into the RJ plot in otherwords because the show just cant/doesn't want to bring her back. You cant just cut someone off the storyline all yr then bring them back in the finale and be like "oh hey RJ how you been this whole time?". We could do this same exercise for alot of characters--Mashburn: hasn't been back since 2010, you ain't bringing him back on a 3 yr hiatus with no plot development and making him RJ. The list goes on and I'll spare you the hassel of reading anymore about it.
@rationalgal: it is very possible that someone we've seen before is Red John, its just based on the evidence we have now, it's frivolous to attribute any one character to be the lead RJ theory(my main man for a stretch was CBI Ron even though there was beyond zero evidence for him---Ive since moved past him and havent found a replacement). Also, imagine in the hypothetical situation in which Stiles is RJ(he isnt), to quote Wainwright "do you have any motion of how bad that looks?". That would really discredit the show, the first person to have suspicious past in regards to RJ being RJ? Really? Yikes, as much as I love the show, that would really dampen its legacy to put it politely. The other thing if you really want to determine who might have a legtimate chance in this endless RJ game is to look at TV contracts and status. You have to consider things beyond the evidence the show has shown. I'll give you an example after I get cut off by this 1000 char limit.
Stiles is way too obvious to be Red John(or at least I hope to god) but really there aren't any good suspects like @rationalgal said before, we just need more information. That quote of Lorelei of "friends for life the moment you shook hands" is loaded because the obvious focus is on who Jane shook hands with(and he focuses on that also) but when someone says "the moment..." it often implies something more than just a one time casual handshake. My guess is this is someone Jane would easily remember and know and talk to. But the problem is there just is no good suspect amongst the characters. It's going to have to come from someone we see within the next few episodes, unless the show wants to make it so that we the audience don't see Red John until he makes his appearance at the end of the series.
To get back to Wainwright real quick, I'm still not fully buying that the only reason he was axed was because he interferred with Jane a) this was over 6 months after the firing--why wait so long? b) This is the second straight yr RJ has hunted the boss in the CBI, that's not a coincidence and Hightower wasn't exactly holding Jane back last year. c) When RJ killed Bosco 3 years ago, it was specifically because he had gained some kind of info that could reveal RJ. He had to get rid of him. And that whole process was organized and deliberately planned, last year looked kind of helter skelter. Just grab Wainwright, keep him in the back and then what? Remember they didn't kill him, the FBI did. RJ had planned on capturing Hightower alive in season 3, it looked like it would be the same with Wainwright. But for what purpose? And where were they gonna take Jane if they weren't caught? It just seemed like a rushed plan at the end with clear flaws. I doubt we ever really get more info about(hell we still never got anything about what happened to Hightower) but its all interesting to think about.
team and part of the danger. As O'Laughlin showed 2 years ago, the people you ally with, some crimes with for so long in an instant can turn into the enemies like that and she probably was aware of that. But @anitaward1 was right, something did change about her persona. After last season, everybody was posting on sites like these that Darcy was the lead candidate to be RJ's friend in the FBI. That would seam a bit too easy, and she's not it(there's a reason she hasn't come on and been described as recovering from the incident--its an easy way to get rid of her from the storyline since she cant come back). There was something odd about how she acted and her aggression, snarkiness and deception in the Red John investigation. Again she's not an RJ mole, but it shows how easy information about the case can spread throughout the FBI and CBI and how easily RJ can find about what's going on there.
RJ definitely wants to tip toe in the ring with Jane and will get rid of those who interfere with that(hence Rebecca 3 years ago). So I buy the theory of getting rid of Wainwright for that purpose to an extent. But there's more to it than that. I can see Darcy seeing the need to kill some on the team if necessary, I think Wainwright shared that mentality, they never put anybody above the CBI and they had no problem cutting Jane(which is something many had puffed their chest out threatening to do but never pulled the trigger) and remember Darcy thought Jane was involved with RJ when he told her RJ was alive. She never trusted Jane at all, she knew he had been lying to him about RJ for a while blatantly and she connected the dots: She realized Jane basically got away with murder. So I can see why she would feel the need to kill if necessary, I don't think it was really an impulsive thing. She just had no trust in Jane and his team and legitimately thought they could be part of the RJ team and those to be hunted.
it will just look like the writers were too lazy or lacked the creativity to come up with something more than inside jobs. Because I dont really think there's some huge super theme about all these inside jobs. There are just too many unanswered questions that have piled up over the years. I hope we can just get some of those questions answered though. It's weird, if someone told you about a show that was entirely based on inside jobs, you'd probably have some idea in your mind of some crazy, evil, scary show that crazy people like and is all about nastiness. Well, that show is the Mentalist, and it comes across as a fun, charming show with brilliance individually. In other words, what you would think of first about a show based on inside jobs is the exact opposite of what the Mentalist is.
I'll try to name a few that may or may not have been mentioned 1) Why did RJ target Wainwright? We have our theories, but we still have no good answer, and there has to be one. 2) Why did RJ target Hightower? There's no good answer, thats 2 top dogs in the CBI, RJ clearly has a thing for targetting them, and we have no idea why. On that note, why wasn't Minelli targeted? 3) How do these insiders conceal themselves and communicate? Jane gave some nonsense in the opener to fool Minelli but we don't really have any good ideas about how the CBI insiders work together. Do they even know who all is working with them in the CBI for RJ? 4) What's the source of what RJ targets---how does he make these connections, where does he recruit from? IN the finale Jane told Bertram he thought RJ had connections from top officals all across the state. How can this cover up go unnoticed? There's just way too many inside jobs, and unless the show can come up with a good way to see how they all originate and find that "casket box", really it will just look like a lack of creativity by the writers.
@anitraward1 basically mentioned all the suspicion and deceitful mole type shady acts in the CBI so I won't ramble on about them individually, but it speaks to one of the big themes about the show: Inside jobs. Here's a question, think about the last time a case of the week didn't in some way involve an inside job or someone betraying those he was with? Really, when was the last time? The show has ridden that theme to death, and the fact one of the big things Bruno hinted at this summer was the idea that we'd be introduced to new characters and not know who was an RJ friend and that Jane doesn't trust the FBI were what to watch for is very telling. They're going down the same path they did in season 3. But to get back to the CBI, there are so many things the show has to tie together, and they probably won't get to 80% of it.
@Anitaward1 is on fire, there is SO much nastiness in the CBI, its like a sorority with all the backstabbing only there's an evilness and willingness to do anything to bend the rules and manipulate people at a level all the way to killing those in the CBI. It is an organization about vanity(all these type of organizations are but its especially apparent with this), Wainwright's focus was always about how things made the CBI look, their reputation and what the CBI was responsible for. Bertram is obsessed with PR and how the CBI looks. What's interesting is in the opener how CBI-FBI were able to orchestrate such a huge con job to conceal Wainwright's cause of death. To boot they were both very willing and cooperative to do so and Jane was able to blackmail Bertram on the basis of how the CBI would look and the cover up. Heck, even the judge, the first thing he said is, "you all are lying through your teeth to cover up something big".
@rationalgal: I love these theories your throwing out there, they are alot of fun and take a lot of time clearly and really make us think, and I'm not sure if your just creating deep theories for fun and excitement sake or if your trying to find the most likely candidates since you said your dying to find RJ. But if its the later, Jane's dad and Brett Stiles aren't Red John:) Jane's Dad is way too deep(its a great ex of fans like us looking way too much into the show and over thinking things which by the way is totally fine and the best) and Stiles is WAY to obvious(oh we bring the first guy on the show who says he knows something about RJ, lets just make him RJ). Really, Red John is going to be someone we have no evidence for right now, because that's how the show has set up the plot. Maybe in 2 months, we can make a more educated guess, but if theres one thing we know about this show, what you see isn't what you get.
@huisclothes nailed everything, everything I was thinking and then some was said by her so I'll spare the ramble but basically she showed everything about Lorelei and why it's more complicated with her and not just an issue of being a serial killer. She is a master manipulator, you can literally SEE the Red John influence on her. You couldn't see that with other friends, thats why they concealed their identities. She goes through the pendelum of emotions with Jane, and yes, there's something there with him and her and Bruno acknowledged that. It won't be a relationship, there both there to manipulate each other, but they enjoy each other's company. Its a more complicated friends with benefits kind of thing. And the thing is, we don't even know the half of it, there's going to be alot more twists and turns with it and her, that law enforcement mole and Visualize are the three keys to the Red John storyline. Lorelei is signed on for 3 more episodes, thats alot.
it's just interesting she went all the way to the bottom of the dumps as a prostitute. Most in well off families who have big problems still try at some job or something and can usually fetch some position through family or their status. They don't let themselves degrade into the position Lorelei has. So in that sense, I can see why she is looked at differently. But still, I think it's a bit much to put her on a different tier of assain than RJ's other friends. Her mother clearly had a nastiness to her, as would any family that lies about something like a sister. Those with the most money and power can be the most cunning and damaging to kids if they themselves are vile. One thing that is interesting I want to know; how long after Red John killed her sister did she approach Lorelei? And why did he kill the sister? Opportunity? We still don't know RJ's real motives for doing what he does, killing as he so desires.
I still think people are overzealous towards Lorelei, mostly because the show has set it up so that she'd look so devilish and show no signs of character. My main point in that ramble was this, think about all the damaged people there are in this world, if someone as charming as Red John came about, offered them something different, something with a bad side but exciting, how many would take it? RJ is the master manipulator, nobody initially signs up for all this, its only through years of development they become what they are. Nobody signs up to murder their fiancee. The one thing different about Lorelei though is all these CBI agents at least worked, became something, and had respectable positions. Lorelei was in the dumps working in Vegas despite coming from such a rich family. Now, like I said before, rich doesn't mean better, it often means more manipulative, powerful, arrogant and full of egos. And all that clearly got to Lorelei with the sister fascade, it's just interesting she went all the way to the bottom of the dumps as a prostitute. Most in well off families who have big problems still try at some job or something. They don't let themselves degrade into the position Lorelei has. So in that sense, I can see why she is looked at differently. But still, I think it's a bit much to put her on a different tier of assain than RJ's other friends. Her mother clearly had a nastiness to her, as would any family that lies about something like a sister. One thing that is interesting I want to know; how long after Red John killed her sister did she approach Lorelei? And why did he kill the sister? Opportunity? We still don't know RJ's real motives for doing what he does, killing as he so desires.
do you think its possible, that random individual with talent but clear problems of the past, could get on board with a criminal so manipulative? And then its only in hindsight, only later on, do they realize its someone as powerful and dangerous as RJ. But by then, they are already on the conversion process. At first, this only looked like a sketchy person with an interesting perspective, perhaps not that different than a friend who is deep into the drug trade industry. That's what RJ is, there's nothing about him that suggests the most dangerous killer in California. And he certainly doesn't lead you on that way for a long time when you join him at first. So I'm not sure I distinguish the degree of evilness with any of these characters based on their background. Because its quite easy for anybody with a troubled past to get associated with Red John. And its only years into the process that you realize what your doing and what you become. Nobody comes in open to the idea of murdering their fiancee.
Really, ultimately think about this, all it takes is one person to cause someone to become like this. One, particuarly, one as charming, manipulative and powerful as RJ. Ask yourself; is it possible if Lorelei never met RJ she would have never been a criminal? Her mother clearly would have still had an issue with her, but that's an entirely separate issue. And ask yourself this, think about all the people with troubled childhoods and adolescence. Nothing criminal, just troubled childhood. Heck, some of them have grown up very good at somethings and worked. (these accomplices don't get jobs in law enforcement bumming on their couch their whole life). But if they were doubting themselves and everything, and had been for years, and ran into someone as manipulative as RJ, someone as powerful, who surely didn't off the bat didn't get them to succumb to him by openly telling them they'd be assasains and criminals to the degree they are, do you think its possible, that random individual with talent but clear problems of the past, could get on board with a criminal so manipulative? And then its only in hindsight, only later on, do they realize its someone as powerful and dangerous as RJ. But by then, they are already on the conversion process. At first, this only looked like a sketchy person with an interesting perspective, perhaps not that different than a friend who is deep into the drug trade industry. That's what RJ is, there's nothing about him that suggests the most dangerous killer in California. And he certainly doesn't lead you on that way for a long time when you join him at first.
I'm not necessairly a believer either than those from rich families who become criminals automatically should be suspected as much more flawed, deserving of punishment and less innocent. It's often at those families where such criminals are breeded where there's the most amount of manipulation, arrogance, ego, and reasons to be either a) taken advantage of b) not properly allowed to prosper and have their potential fulfilled or realized(this happens alot in rich families). This clearly happened with Lorelei at many levels with her sister. Its not fair to say, well the only thing wrong with her was lying about her sister, while other characters had constant physical abuse on top of it. Any act, one that drains on you psychologically and emotionally like that, under such manipulation and expectations from a mother who clearly had some flaws, can destroy a child growing up even if they get to have the best house in the neighborhood.
of falling for someone, someone with other interests and other ideals. They have to have some interests and desires that make them normal. Most assain's don't relate as well with people as these friends do, particuarly to the point that no one in law enforcement would suspect them. This notion that all these RJ friends were inherently flawed from the start I don't agree with. I've always been someone who thinks if put in the appropriate context from the start, or even later on in their life, anybody can become anything, for better or worse. The resentment for Lorelei in particular seems to stem from a)her deviousness is the most recent to be uncovered b) she has directly affected Jane and tried to c) we've had a parent directly put the blame on her and embarrass Lisbon when she suggested the mother take some of the blame.
Comments by black white and red all over it (Page 8)
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
Bruno has said in season 1 he had a good idea how the show would end, and you always have to give writers some benefit of the doubt, but the more you think about it, the more you have to agree there's something to what @Watcher's saying, there just seems no clear plan, it is helter skelter, what mood are we in today, type of deal.
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker
The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker