@Douglas Wolfe -- I'm probably missing what your conversation is about, but this episode is the second time Penny said she loved Leonard. The first was in the hallway and more along the lines of, "You know I love you ..." and then was acknowledged as an important moment when she realized it. So, I apologize if you're not talking about that -- and no one answered, I think, because it was already referred to in one of the comments.
Lucy's shyness semi annoys me. She earns a living. She supports herself. She must shop (and was in the comic book store when it was packed). To me she indulges herself petulantly more than would be real. I do understand extreme shyness and intimacy issues and even resenting Raj pushing her about their relationship, but I find it surprising such an individual wouldn't riskingly have already embraced what she has/had with Raj as a super serious relationship in her own mind. Shyness is fear, but, if anything, it makes one more vulnerable by wanting so desperately for good things to happen.
A non-institutionalized shy person would sometimes accept being uncomfortable and afraid in social settings and, (I think) would have gone to the bon voyage party.
I think this is a touching situation that has been comedied to an unreal joke. They missed a chance so far for a new interesting character!
This wasn't much of an episode. I thought it was just advancing or wrapping up series story lines. I mean, the next episode Leonard will return, Leonard & Penny's relationship seems to have reached permanent couple, they show wrapped up a tired Raj-can't-talk characterization and still left open a relationship w/Lucy or ended it if the producers so choose, Amy's role in the group was better defined (rather than there as strictly Sheldon's appendage), and Howard and Bernadette (who seemed more wifely) are still moving toward starting a family. Sheldon could have been nasty-obnoxious, but they softened it by the old joke about him acting like Penny and Leonard's kid.
I just realized I took "Just Asking, But" as a continuation/a part of Sue Ann's message -- and should have addressed my answer to @Just Asking, But. I hope someday they allow us to edit our posts.
@Sue Ann -- I live in Ohio, farm country. My accident, I think (but could be off a year??), happened in 1989 on State Route 99. I do know that I was very fortunate, and have since paid attention to how some can be hurt bad and others uninjured in the same crash. When I was in high school, the oldest cousin I had, about to graduate from high school was killed with 2 of the 3 others (she was on a double date) in a car that was hit by a drunk who didn't have his headlights on and didn't slow up. The one who wasn't killed was hospitalized.
@Sue Ann -- I was in a car accident too where a car turned, to pull into a driveway, in front of me. I did hit the brakes hard so that, although I was doing the 55 mph speed limit, I didn't hit their car at anywhere near that speed. My car knocked theirs out of the way and went to the right off the road to a yard that was a couple of feet lower than the road. Again, this wasn't at such speed, but both mother and daughter were fine, although kind of in hysterics; and I broke two knee sized holes in the dash, bent the steering wheel over with my chest when I star-cracked the windshield with the top of my head and I was truly blessed to be perfectly fine without a cut, scratch, bruise on me, able to get out of the car and go over and check on them. Both cars were totaled.
People can be fine, but with Tony knocked out and Ziva unable to lift her arm immediately, that implies they had some injuries at least(??).
@Guest! -- What Gibbs did in Mexico was murder. I don't fault a fictional character who did what he did because as the audience (I mean me) it was satisfying without being real. I don't know how I'd feel if I knew someone who did that, even for the same reasons. Ziva didn't approach Bodnar as if her intent was to kill him. Your point is valid in real-life (should Luciano be praised for having Dutch Schultz murdered because Schultz intended to kill Dewey, U.S. Prosecutor?) There are things that happen in shows (and not necessarily killings) that rub me really wrong, but "fictional" Gibbs' actions don't.
If Ziva would have shot Bodnar, I think then she would have been in as much trouble as any cop who shoots a fleeing suspect (not automatically guilty but a lot of explaining to do and it better not happen again, or such). What a cop is expected to do, but not alone where he has no back-up, is pursue and restrain the suspect. That would be silly to do by one's self, especially pursuing a killer. What I'm thinking is that Ziva did pursue and try to restrain and, in the process, the suspect fell overboard and died. I don't think she's getting away with anything by not being charged.
The car accident bothered me, too. It is quite possible, especially in a heavier car like a Cadillac to actually not be injured at all (or, of course, killed while the person next to you isn't injured) -- but Tony was knocked out, but not at all hurt (meaning, so why was he knocked out?) and Ziva was not only stunned and groggy but could hardly lift her arm, which was immediate, not some bruising and stiffness that developed after days and could be painful but possibly worked out (meaning that something was damaged/torn/broken/dislocated). Cars do have safety glass, so they wouldn't necessarily get cut up unless metal car parts were ripped -- but to be knocked out or unable to lift one's arm implies they were injured enough to have to recover.
If one questions whether Ziva could win a fight with Bodnar, it is probably indicative of a poorly choreographed fight. Of course it isn't automatic that a guy would always beat a girl just because each has been trained. Foreman pounded Frazier, knocking him down 6 times in 2 rounds before the fight was stopped; Foreman pounded Norton, knocking him down 3 times in the second round before the fight was stopped -- and Ali, who lost one time each to both Frazier and Norton, knocked Foreman out. If Ziva is a better fighter, Bodnar's size would make no difference. If she's a lot better, she could beat him while injured. And that's not even taking into account that Bodnar was an executive in Mossad, sitting behind a desk (picture George Smiley who always had others to do his fighting for him).
I don't want Holmes and Watson romantically involved either. Besides their relationship is already interesting. Lucy Liu's Watson isn't a typical sidekick, for one -- although I wonder if she will come to feel the loyal affection every other Watson has felt for their Holmes.
Concerning if the question is about whether she slept with Tony ... If somebody was witch-hunting team Gibbs, a sign that the team was mislead and out-of-control would be all of the team members jumping into bed with each. And, please, I'm not saying it is a conclusion I personally would draw (if there had been a couple of pairings), but I do think that to a bureaucracy (the government) it would be ammunition and justification for just about any break up, demotions, retirements.
It's possible for Sherlock to outsmart Moriarty regularly by stopping a Moriarty crime without catching him. I hope they go in that direction rather than the comic book evil overload style villain (like Pelant in Bones) who controls the whole universe (mehya-ha-ha-ha-ha).
Gil Thorpe annoys me. I just don't find him funny. Maybe it's because the humor is nasty or maybe because Phil changes when he's dealing with him. I realize that it's me -- but I hope he isn't in every episode now. I kind of think too that Phil, especially with Luke to verify, should have explained his objections by discussing Gil's comments in the car -- and suggest she go into it with her eyes open or stop whining and actually look for a job where she can get the respect she deserves!
Of course, maybe I wouldn't look for and enjoy the senior-field-agent Tony so much if he didn't play the character the way he did.
Don't know -- but from next episode previews (and Gibbs question in the basement) I do suspect that in Berlin Tony and Ziva slept together after Bodnar's brother's capture. Another hint of that might have been the hand-holding in the car.
If I'm right, that will really drive the Tiva haters crazy -- but, anyhow, I thought this episode was fine between the two, even Ziva being annoyed Tony wouldn't talk to his insurance.
I'm a Tony fan (and NOT a Ziva/Tiva hater at all). In the early episodes especially, Weatherly and the writers played Tony as frat-boy-ish, allowing him to be comic relief, but he was always good and senior-field-agent-ish -- like goofing around with Kate on Air Force One, Ducky and him being photographed behind the President's desk, or answering the phone as he's pretending to be a dead body ... but explaining techniques to Kate, even if he's using a bikini model on the cover of a magazine, or how quickly he determined who the body was (the officer who met with Kate and then died in his car) and notified Gibbs on the plane. But, sometimes these days he's not frat-boy-ish but just irresponsible (like not dealing with his insurance) and self-centered (like calling McGee McGoofUp) and not competent and Gibbs Junior (like Gibbs knew he'd need a cup of coffee because of McGee's rules).
My impression is that the season ending cliffhanger is going to be about an investigation of team Gibbs. If I got that right(???), then it seems the Mossad, Bodner, Orli, car accident will get resolved before this season ends -- but that how will lead to the investigation.
I'm sure there will be some great twists ahead, but if it wasn't either Bodnar or Orli responsible for the crash, then wouldn't it have to be some out-of-left-field villain we've never even seen yet? All the hints were that Bodnar is getting framed, but it seems to me we are then left with Mossad as the killers of everybody. I also wondered if Bodnar saying Ziva didn't know the whole story could mean that Bodnar had to kill David (maybe under orders from even Orli) because he was meeting with his Iranian counterpart??
Comments by Keith Vlasak
The Big Bang Theory Review: Introducing the Chatterbox
The Big Bang Theory Review: Introducing the Chatterbox
The Big Bang Theory Review: Introducing the Chatterbox
A non-institutionalized shy person would sometimes accept being uncomfortable and afraid in social settings and, (I think) would have gone to the bon voyage party.
I think this is a touching situation that has been comedied to an unreal joke. They missed a chance so far for a new interesting character!
The Big Bang Theory Review: Introducing the Chatterbox
NCIS Round Table: "Revenge"
NCIS Round Table: "Revenge"
NCIS Round Table: "Revenge"
People can be fine, but with Tony knocked out and Ziva unable to lift her arm immediately, that implies they had some injuries at least(??).
NCIS Review: Fortune Favors the Bold
NCIS Review: Fortune Favors the Bold
NCIS Review: Fortune Favors the Bold
NCIS Review: Fortune Favors the Bold
NCIS Round Table: "Revenge"
NCIS Round Table: "Revenge"
The Big Bang Theory Review: Solving the World's Energy Crisis with Potatoes
Elementary Review: Moriarty Emerges
NCIS Review: Fortune Favors the Bold
The Big Bang Theory Review: Solving the World's Energy Crisis with Potatoes
The Big Bang Theory Review: Solving the World's Energy Crisis with Potatoes
Elementary Review: Moriarty Emerges
Modern Family Review: Sweet Little Lies
NCIS Review: Fortune Favors the Bold
Don't know -- but from next episode previews (and Gibbs question in the basement) I do suspect that in Berlin Tony and Ziva slept together after Bodnar's brother's capture. Another hint of that might have been the hand-holding in the car.
If I'm right, that will really drive the Tiva haters crazy -- but, anyhow, I thought this episode was fine between the two, even Ziva being annoyed Tony wouldn't talk to his insurance.
NCIS Review: Fortune Favors the Bold
NCIS Round Table: "Berlin"
The Big Bang Theory Review: The Unresolved Cliffhanger Problem
Are you sure Penny's idea of her passion is a good thing -- or is it going to be a let-down?
Lost World is the one that frustrates me for ending on a season-ending cliffhanger and never coming back!
NCIS Round Table: "Berlin"