Contrary to Rumple, Cora, and Regina who CHOSE to do black magic to get REVENGE on someone, Snow saw it as the only option to SAVE her family.
Except not.
- She could have given the heart back without the curse.
- She could have not cursed the heart and just let Gold die without a new dark one.
- She could have simply crushed the heart.
There were many choices. some lighter, some darker. The one she chose was pretty much the darkest possible.
And she wanted to chose it - when Rumple, nealfire, emma and henry come back to ship, Snow starts a monologue about killing Cora, looking DIRECTLY at Rumple. And then in the shop she only chooses the candle after she gets that Rumple wants Cora to die.
In a sense, Snow was just like Cora in this episode - talking about "doing it for the family", but in reality fulfilling her revenge.
Ok, now I'm irritated again - then why did it work with Belle? I mean, at that time Rumple surely was even more embittered (Milah gone, Cora gone) and on his guard (because Regina was all grown-up and very powerful).
Because with Belle, both of them started to BELIEVE it being possible, while that never happened with Cora.
That's the simple difference - being with Belle made him want to choose love he feels over pwoer, being with Cora it did not.
If Snow considers Rumple worse than Cora, why *wouldn't* she have chosen the option where he died?
because, as rumple said - it would DESTROY Snow in the eyes of her family, especially Henry.
That's exactly what stops her from doing it - so she merely chooses the one target that would make the least impact with her own family.
And I am pretty sure that some part of her truly wanted it all to happen exactly this way -if only to make Regina feel how it feels to lose your mother.
Ace , thank you. I was guessing that could be the solution (Cora and Rumple loving each other, but not being ment to be together in the way Snow and Charming are). But I wasn't sure.
I don't think its about "being meant", but more about what each of them feels at the moment.
In heart of darkness, snow/charming kiss did not work at first, remember? Because Snow was choosing her revenge of her love.
In Cora/Rumple case we have two people, who, while in love, are essentially building up walls and choosing power over love.
(cont'd)
And not only that, but it also showcases that Snow is not viewing Rumple as suddenly good guy and views him as something just as worse as cora.
But, I'm puzzled as to why the writers even brought up Snow's contemplation of that other possibility - just putting Cora's heart back inside her and letting Rumple die, thus solving this eternal plot/counterplot dynamic that's been going on for lifetimes. Now that I know Snow knew there was another way, I'm kind of ticked off at her for not doing it!
Oh but it actually is required as it develops Snow as a character - showcasing the lengths she is willing to go. In that one line she thinks about taking away the consent of one person(and possibly killing her after) and letting another person die, instead of saving ONE of them.
It not only showcases that Snow did not use the candle just to save Rumple - she never really cared about saving him. the writers carefully took away the excuse of "killing by necessity" with that line.
Snow's actions in this episode seem to be the first steps in a long storyline and I can't wait to see where it goes.
I'm officially confused on the family tree! Can someone plot it out for me? Are Eva and Cora sisters-in-law? Or did Eva become Cora's mother-in-law? in which case didn't Regina marry her greandfather? or her uncle?
No. Cora and Ava/Eva are not related. Neither is Rumple and Regina.
Snow did the right thing. Of course it's hard when the purest of all characters has to make the toughest choice, but I hope we won't see her condemning herself for the rest of the season.
I am actually hoping that this changes the modus operandi Snow so far had, as in, after a period of guilt, she starts taking more and more of those kinds of decisions, because just as we have seen with Rumple, Cora and Regina - while the first time is hardest and filled with regret, making those choices again and again after that gets easier and easier.
I could not understand Cora's last few words of dialogue. Anyone?
"You would have been enough"
Its basically confirmation that SNow was not entirely wrong in her manipulation-monologue - had Cora HAD a heart, Regina's love would have been enough for her.
she's really on a dark path and I don't know if she'll come back from this.
I am beginning to think that Snow won't.
- We see in the flashback on what Dark Magic does to Cora and we see Rumple explain from what kind of emotions that comes.
- We see in present time Snow use it with exactly those kinds of emotions.
I'll be damned on if Snow won't become a dark one by the end of the season. She just surpassed Regina and CORA(of all people) both and Someone like that becoming a Dark One seems like a fitting price of the Dark Curse - after all this and what Snow does is direct consequence of Rumple's actions.
6. Does Rumplestiltskin truly perceive Henry as a threat and how far do you think he'll go to protect himself?
The paranoid part, the part that pushed belle away, does. But I do believe that ultimately the part that Belle awakened will win over and he will accept him. Which will be the undoing of who he was and beginning of who he is.
1. What was your favorite scene?
Snow's monologue in the end of episode. So much emotion and you could literally see the wheels turning in her head as she goes through her life. Also lots of parallels to what Regina said or did too.
2. Does Cora want to use Rumple to do her bidding or does she want to become the Dark One?
I am sure she wants to become one. All she loves or wants is power.
3. Will Snow truly find her dark side?
I was not sure at first, But I am 100% convinced that yes, that will happen. It will be something shocking and surprising.
4. Is Neal a fairy tale character and if so, who?
Doubt him being Peter Pan. Most likely just one of Lost Boys.
5. Any ideas on why Cora hated Snow's mother?
I would not be surprised on if Eva was the villain of Cora's storyline in flashback. All people change, some for worse, some for better.
6. Does Rumplestiltskin truly perceive Henry as a threat and how far do you think he'll go to protect himself?
The paranoid part, the part that pushed belle away, does. But I do believe that ultimately the part that Belle awakened will win over and he will accept him. Which will be the undoing of who he was and beginning of who he is.
Correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know Snow daggering Rumple would mean that Rumple dies. Sorry but there's no way the creators are going to let Rumple die. H
Not if:
A) Emma heals him (hence why showrunners talked about the whole thing of emotions being behind "true magic" of Emma)
B) Snow uses the candle to trade save Rumple and kill Cora then.
I have a feeling that Snow is becoming the Dark One !
My thoughts exactly!
Either
A) Cora kills Rumple and becomes Dark One. Then Snow uses the candle to kill cora and revive rumple. Singe Snow killed the current Dark One, she becomes the dark one.
B) Snow literally stabs Rumple with the dagger, to prevent Cora from getting his power. Rumple latter is healed by Emma, through the whole love-magic thing.
I love how the title of episode refers to a lot more than just Snow's mother:
Its basically first part of the saying "Queen is Dead, long live the queen" - circle of life and death, good and evil, duality in every person.
So its VERY fitting that the episode explored duality in all of those Queens
- Emma's struggle between who she was and who she is and the "death" of her hopes when she found out Neal moved on.
- Regina's struggle between two sides of her and her trust in mother slowly dying, together with her evil queen side.
- Cora's struggle with her antithesis in form of Snow's mother.
- Snow's struggle with herself, as well as concept of morality, as the "Snow White of fairytales" dies and "Snow of storybrooke", not bound by those moral obligations is born.
Brilliant episode. While many of S2 episodes before were so-and-so and varied in quality, this was RETURN TO FORM for the show.
Love that they will be exploring more on what Snow is capable of. We have seen it in Heart of Darkness and overall in bits in S1, but this will finally be fleshed out.
My guess is that Snow will end up killing a wrong person, thus going off even bigger deep end.
"Fuck YEAH" for Arrow. The Show seriously deserves it.
"Just let it die" for Supernatural. that show should have been done after S5 tops. It has been past its prime all the way back then and it all got worse and worse.
"Uhhhh why is this still on" for TVD. No explanation needed. This show is an insult to human intelligence.
Seth Gabel's Count was incredibly psychotic and entertaining and now, thanks to Oliver, he will be EVEN MORE psychotic and creepy next time, which is awesome(also it explains on why Amnell called Count the first Arrow's villain that is of his own making, since Oliver ended up making him even more crazy and dangerous).
Can't wait till he will be back.
On other hand, Oliver finally learned about his Mother. Can't wait to see where the List storyline goes...and the island...UGHHHH, this show has SO MANY great storylines.
Smee was in on the plan to send her over the line earlier on, remember?
Hook's vengeance made him seem clueless to the factor that he helped make Rumple's anger.
THat actually flows nicely - revenge is a machine that keeps on going, so to say - for Hook to have a target, he has to view rumple as evil, for Rumple to be evil, he has to do evil things, so the only way Hook can fulfill his thirst for vengeance is if Rumple remains the heartless man he was.
When Hook knew not only where to find the blanket that Rumpelstiltskin prized, but arranged a diversion in order to steal it--well, that's when the plot jumped the shark for me. I give up.
good. You don't have enough attention to comprehend the show anyway, since both of those were explained in show (Hook SAW Rumple show Belle the cloth and he knew of Belle's importance since previous flashback of his)
Comments by Invested In Your Future (Page 2)
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
Except not.
- She could have given the heart back without the curse.
- She could have not cursed the heart and just let Gold die without a new dark one.
- She could have simply crushed the heart.
There were many choices. some lighter, some darker. The one she chose was pretty much the darkest possible.
And she wanted to chose it - when Rumple, nealfire, emma and henry come back to ship, Snow starts a monologue about killing Cora, looking DIRECTLY at Rumple. And then in the shop she only chooses the candle after she gets that Rumple wants Cora to die.
In a sense, Snow was just like Cora in this episode - talking about "doing it for the family", but in reality fulfilling her revenge.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
Because with Belle, both of them started to BELIEVE it being possible, while that never happened with Cora.
That's the simple difference - being with Belle made him want to choose love he feels over pwoer, being with Cora it did not.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
because, as rumple said - it would DESTROY Snow in the eyes of her family, especially Henry.
That's exactly what stops her from doing it - so she merely chooses the one target that would make the least impact with her own family.
And I am pretty sure that some part of her truly wanted it all to happen exactly this way -if only to make Regina feel how it feels to lose your mother.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
I don't think its about "being meant", but more about what each of them feels at the moment.
In heart of darkness, snow/charming kiss did not work at first, remember? Because Snow was choosing her revenge of her love.
In Cora/Rumple case we have two people, who, while in love, are essentially building up walls and choosing power over love.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
And not only that, but it also showcases that Snow is not viewing Rumple as suddenly good guy and views him as something just as worse as cora.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
Oh but it actually is required as it develops Snow as a character - showcasing the lengths she is willing to go. In that one line she thinks about taking away the consent of one person(and possibly killing her after) and letting another person die, instead of saving ONE of them.
It not only showcases that Snow did not use the candle just to save Rumple - she never really cared about saving him. the writers carefully took away the excuse of "killing by necessity" with that line.
Snow's actions in this episode seem to be the first steps in a long storyline and I can't wait to see where it goes.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
No. Cora and Ava/Eva are not related. Neither is Rumple and Regina.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
I am actually hoping that this changes the modus operandi Snow so far had, as in, after a period of guilt, she starts taking more and more of those kinds of decisions, because just as we have seen with Rumple, Cora and Regina - while the first time is hardest and filled with regret, making those choices again and again after that gets easier and easier.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
"You would have been enough"
Its basically confirmation that SNow was not entirely wrong in her manipulation-monologue - had Cora HAD a heart, Regina's love would have been enough for her.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
I am beginning to think that Snow won't.
- We see in the flashback on what Dark Magic does to Cora and we see Rumple explain from what kind of emotions that comes.
- We see in present time Snow use it with exactly those kinds of emotions.
Once Upon a Time Review: Love Could Have Been Enough
Once Upon a Time Round Table: "The Queen Is Dead"
The paranoid part, the part that pushed belle away, does. But I do believe that ultimately the part that Belle awakened will win over and he will accept him. Which will be the undoing of who he was and beginning of who he is.
Once Upon a Time Round Table: "The Queen Is Dead"
Snow's monologue in the end of episode. So much emotion and you could literally see the wheels turning in her head as she goes through her life. Also lots of parallels to what Regina said or did too.
2. Does Cora want to use Rumple to do her bidding or does she want to become the Dark One?
I am sure she wants to become one. All she loves or wants is power.
3. Will Snow truly find her dark side?
I was not sure at first, But I am 100% convinced that yes, that will happen. It will be something shocking and surprising.
4. Is Neal a fairy tale character and if so, who?
Doubt him being Peter Pan. Most likely just one of Lost Boys.
5. Any ideas on why Cora hated Snow's mother?
I would not be surprised on if Eva was the villain of Cora's storyline in flashback. All people change, some for worse, some for better.
6. Does Rumplestiltskin truly perceive Henry as a threat and how far do you think he'll go to protect himself?
The paranoid part, the part that pushed belle away, does. But I do believe that ultimately the part that Belle awakened will win over and he will accept him. Which will be the undoing of who he was and beginning of who he is.
The Vampire Diaries Spoiler Pics: The New Elena
Just not the one responsible for the last few seasons of GG where everyone looked like a dead rat with bad hair :P
The Vampire Diaries Spoiler Pics: The New Elena
Dress Bella Swan in a Dress and it still will be Bella Swan. So happy to have left this trainwreck.
Once Upon a Time Spoilers: Going Dark, Finding Neverland, Changing the Game
And according to spoilers, the next episode pretty much begins with her proclaiming that Gold is her family and she would never ever let him die.
Once Upon a Time Spoilers: Going Dark, Finding Neverland, Changing the Game
Not if:
A) Emma heals him (hence why showrunners talked about the whole thing of emotions being behind "true magic" of Emma)
B) Snow uses the candle to trade save Rumple and kill Cora then.
Once Upon a Time Spoilers: Going Dark, Finding Neverland, Changing the Game
My thoughts exactly!
Either
A) Cora kills Rumple and becomes Dark One. Then Snow uses the candle to kill cora and revive rumple. Singe Snow killed the current Dark One, she becomes the dark one.
B) Snow literally stabs Rumple with the dagger, to prevent Cora from getting his power. Rumple latter is healed by Emma, through the whole love-magic thing.
Once Upon a Time Review: True Hearts Can Lose
Its basically first part of the saying "Queen is Dead, long live the queen" - circle of life and death, good and evil, duality in every person.
So its VERY fitting that the episode explored duality in all of those Queens
- Emma's struggle between who she was and who she is and the "death" of her hopes when she found out Neal moved on.
- Regina's struggle between two sides of her and her trust in mother slowly dying, together with her evil queen side.
- Cora's struggle with her antithesis in form of Snow's mother.
- Snow's struggle with herself, as well as concept of morality, as the "Snow White of fairytales" dies and "Snow of storybrooke", not bound by those moral obligations is born.
Once Upon a Time Review: True Hearts Can Lose
Love that they will be exploring more on what Snow is capable of. We have seen it in Heart of Darkness and overall in bits in S1, but this will finally be fleshed out.
My guess is that Snow will end up killing a wrong person, thus going off even bigger deep end.
Arrow Review: Unhooded
Top-notch quality television and the episode that would triumph thousands of best season finale episodes that aired.
The CW Renews Vampire Diaries, Arrow and Supernatural for 2013-2014
"Just let it die" for Supernatural. that show should have been done after S5 tops. It has been past its prime all the way back then and it all got worse and worse.
"Uhhhh why is this still on" for TVD. No explanation needed. This show is an insult to human intelligence.
Arrow Review: Punctured
Now THAT'S how you do villains, CW.
Seth Gabel's Count was incredibly psychotic and entertaining and now, thanks to Oliver, he will be EVEN MORE psychotic and creepy next time, which is awesome(also it explains on why Amnell called Count the first Arrow's villain that is of his own making, since Oliver ended up making him even more crazy and dangerous).
Can't wait till he will be back.
On other hand, Oliver finally learned about his Mother. Can't wait to see where the List storyline goes...and the island...UGHHHH, this show has SO MANY great storylines.
Once Upon a Time Review: What Cannot Be Undone
Smee was in on the plan to send her over the line earlier on, remember?
Hook's vengeance made him seem clueless to the factor that he helped make Rumple's anger.
THat actually flows nicely - revenge is a machine that keeps on going, so to say - for Hook to have a target, he has to view rumple as evil, for Rumple to be evil, he has to do evil things, so the only way Hook can fulfill his thirst for vengeance is if Rumple remains the heartless man he was.
When Hook knew not only where to find the blanket that Rumpelstiltskin prized, but arranged a diversion in order to steal it--well, that's when the plot jumped the shark for me. I give up.
good. You don't have enough attention to comprehend the show anyway, since both of those were explained in show (Hook SAW Rumple show Belle the cloth and he knew of Belle's importance since previous flashback of his)
Once Upon a Time Review: What Cannot Be Undone
Sure.
Just NOT through the perfection that is Belle.
And NOT as soon as he did a couple of genuinely good, redeemable decisions(sparing smee and hook).
NO one hurts Belle, no matter the reason.