[b]even in democratic countries like yours and MINE, the English language differentiates between constructive criticism and negative criticism.[/b]
I am sorry but then you have very warped sense of criticism. criticism is ALWAYS negative. IT can be either argumented/constructive or fallacious/destructive.
If there are flaws they should and WOULD be picked apart by coherent part of fanbase. It just so happens that right now TVD's flaws outweigh its better sides 10 to 1.
@evelyn
That would mean criticism in the world would be non-existent. Thankfully in democratic countries, when one messes up in huge ways, one gets openly criticized for doing so :)
TVD messed up. BIG TIME. :)
And rest of the show? Sorry but currently there's NO resto of the show. The show is way too busy focusing on holy-messiah-never-wrong Elena Gilbert, holy-misguided-always-wrong-rapist Damon Salvatore, holy-hero-always-suffers Steffie and holy-plot-device-of-magic Bonnie. No one else exists in this show sadly :)
IT will be revealed that Elena was indeed dropped on her head as a child resulting in her current state of dumb decision making and lack of personality.
No seriously, with the "SecretS" this show tried to pull offf and failed(viking originals anyone?)I do not expect anything grand or even decent from this.
The quality of the actors, the set and costume designs. THE PERFECT ADAPTATION of the book itself(of course they removed some dreams, etc), one of the MOST AWESOME opening sequences. Really, do I need to continue? Its VERY obvious why Game of THrones IS the best show of 2011.
Revenge comes close though.
As for people crying aboud lack of tvd in the list? Did it ever struck you that it was not EVEN CLOSE to best show of 2011? 99% stuff on air was just so much better.
@kap21
Well thats because there's NOTHING else to be said about this show right now. :)
The cons far outweigh and outnumber the pros. Caroline and her plotlines ARE pretty much the only pro of this show now.
Why do people bring up elena, death-issue, etc, etc again and again? Because show keeps borking up there.
And just because one of the shows that HAD potential to be decent are going down the drain, I see no reason to stop saying what I think about each jump-the-shark idea Plec gets :)
Like it or not a whole lot of people here watch this show purely because of caroline.
Why? because whatever cahracters or plots we liked, this show has already turned them into trainwreck.
She IS the defacto main character of this show.
And I am sure that entire caroline fanbase will stop watching this show if they ruin her :)
Also what you call negativity I call criticism. The show is far from perfect and everyone has every right to talk about that :) Its not a fansite or fanforum . :)
I am already irritated at certain plotlines in latest seasons of this show and without Karen Gillan there's nothing to care about this doctor, so I guess I will skip the next pond-less smith-season
LOL AT Jeremy. Well this show has jumped the shark now.
Alaric seems to have gotten over Jenna awfully fast...oh wait, who's jenna? right, no one. show forgot she existed.
Otherwise too much Miss Cardboard Elena Swan in those screenshots to get excited about anything.
I guess TVD will premiere WEEK after this for me since I will skip this one. Why? This has no caroline.
Steffie acting irrational? who cares, its not steffie, its robo-wesley.
LOL at "darker elena". Too late its too late. She got kidnapped THREE times, had people die around her, encountered her evil twin who stabbed her father and tried to mess up her life, got smacked around by thousand year old vampires, got her own family dead, got DEAD and that did absolutely nothing, NOTHING to her as character.(because writers forgot to develop her)
Now are we supposed to believe that steffie dumping her had such a big impact? I LOL'd.
If you hate what the show is really about so much don't watch it.
good use of logical fallacy...not.
Expecting criticism to "shut up" just because you dislike it is, well, childish.
I hate ignorant people who nit pick
Well, too bad you have been (most likely) born in democratic country where free speech is one of the major values of life and state.
and compare new shows to old ones.
Isn't that exactly how critique works?
One takes his opinion, arguments it with constructive arguments based upon facts, existing cases and the main basic theory on the subject and defends it.
Reality check, Buffy and angel were both canceled and the Vampire Diaries was not made as a replacement
I beg to differ. If those shows did not exist, there would be no TVD. Thats a fact for obvious reasons (aka tvd ripping those shows off and TRYING to copy them yet failing).
The writers would not try to appease that audience nor they would try to copy characters and plot ideas if that was the case.
My advice, next time the show comes on, watch something else so we don't have to read your bitching.
Nice use of logical fallacies oh and let me fix a grammar mistake for you.
Its not "We" its "I".
Also opinions and constructive criticism is normal part of life - deal with it.
TVD is a GUILTY PLEASURE, you don't watch a guilty pleasure to find something deep or profound or whatever.
Yep. I watch tvd to be entertained. ALthough EVEN guilty pleasure has limits on suspension of disbelief. There's a very slim line between guilty pleasure and trainwreck. TVD is treading upon trainwreck nowadays.
What is with al the twilight references, I HATE Twilight and whenever I here the two being compared I gag,
Because the only difference RIGHT NOW between them is that TVD has comparably better actors.
I see no similarity between Elena and Bell( for one Elena actually thinks of others).
Coming after entire half season where Elena has been constantly putting the entire town in danger by going after steffie's certain golden male parts who have ran away from her, that sounds funny.
Considering that the show treats her in exactly the same way as bella swan, its even funny.
Add to that her typical mary sue traits and nonexistent character development and the funny just keeps on coming.
So any and all comments creating a link between the two is just a waste.
then provide significant counter arguments on why its not so. Oh wait, you have none.
It's actually funny how much you know about twilight, considering you don't seem to like it very much.
Everyone knows about twilight.
Everyone knows about The Room.
Everyone Knows about Heroes
The utter standards of badness and bad writing. Hey, to TVD's credit, at least the writing is NOT as awful as in The Room.
What teenage drama in season 2?
How about the entirety of S2 being one huge steaming pile of DES love triangle forcing its way to everything? Even Katherine, a promising villain with good build up got thrown into that teenage drama circle. S3 is exactly the same, but worse and with Klaus instead of Kat.
Again the useless character lists, only Gloria is really justified. Also notice how it has dramatically shrunk?
Yet again no arguments.
And yes, it has dramatically shrunk since I excluded S1 and S2 characters. Logic dictates it would be shorter than with them.
I want proof of this fact that bringing dead characters back is bad.
wow. I don't think you even realize how absurd that sentence sounds.
I request the proof of the fact that earth is not flat.
Apart form linking to your local university or library, not much I can help you. Yet again commonsense and basic level of education is needed to get why bringing back characters from death and oversaturating your fictional work with that is bad.
Alot of viewers want to see Stelena or Delena, my point being a premiere episode should focus on them, not the mourning of Jenna.
Why is that? Why can't according to you grieving intersect with the relationships?
Grief and death is a powerful catalyst in writing characters and stories, as well as relationships. The very fact that writers shied away from that only proves my point of both timeskip being improper, timeskip being wasted, characters not being developed AND death having no consequence in this show...welll, nothing has consequence in this show.
Btw I cried when she died, so she couldn't have been that useless could she?
Congratulations being on minority. After gazillion of not-deaths and cop outs in this show, her death was a relief at best and a lot of smart people cheered and feared she would get up. Why? because show did not establish death as HUGE thing. And it continues to NOT establish it as huge inevitable thing. Death is plot device at best in TVD. Death was not realistic nor shocking, hell it was expected after how the character was handled. The only question in viewers heads was will she stay dead. Praying she would and expecting SOME SORT of reaction from everyone else.
Sadly no reaction ever came from that and Jenna just ceased to exist.
Viewers almost universally love Stefan/Elena/Damon, Press loves it, actors love it. Killing it would be suicidal. :)
Any proof of that?
For one you listed a triangle and not a pairing.
For second, both in this forum/site and in overall internet you will either find DE, SE or neither-relationship viewers. On other hand you most likely won't find nay matt/caroline fans and 99% of viewwers you encounter will ship forwood or watch show for it.
Press does not "love" de/se. It HYPES it. There's a wide-ranging difference from being hyped as epic and actually be featured in photoshoots and magazine covers as well as talked about frequently as proved by writer interviews(with KW being pretty much giddy about forwood and caroline), this site itself and overall fanbase.
How did it fail in Klaus characteriazation, if it showed how desperate he was not to be alone and how desperately he needed allies?
It was a chance to develop Klaus into complex persona. It failed to do that, marginalizing the supposed layers of character and isolating each of them from the other. Yet again, lacking basic writing consistency.
Wether they use these situations to further Elena's character flaws or not, the viewer is, hopefully, smart enough to fill in the unnecasarry time wasting blanks for themselves.
We know Bella Swan is mary sue and an example of nonexistant character. Doe snot change the way writers portray her in the works.
Same with Elena Gilbert.
What you said just proves that writers have no abilities to consistently develop characters, write them and their growth. If Writer is successful with writing a character then the viewer fanbase will have the exact same impresion of character o decision a des the show lore and writers themselves. If character is supposed to have multiple interpretations, same - both writers, show lore, show producer and viewers will see it that way. TVD utterly fails at that since writer and show perception of Elena differs GREATLY from viewer perception of her.
She is a mary sue through
TVD prides themselves on being fast-paced, for all these character development situations you're asking for, would damage that
So good writing would damage popcorn? makes no sense sadly and if writers can't handle writing and developing characters in fast paced setting then it only proves my point of them incapable of developing those characters and maybe they should either drop the pacing or should not even have taken up this job upon themselves?
You're saying that a teenager whose willing to sacrifice herself for others hasn't matured at all?
Her reaction to death is the definition of mary sue.
Such an utter sacrificial tendencies are impossible psychologically unless Elena would have a built up suicidal tendencies. Every person has an irrational fears of dark and death.
The way her "sacrifice" story was handled made her fullblown mary sue and ensured that her character would stay stalled at the two-line description it began with. we had no reaction from her to the concept of death.
The Master, mayor wilkins, The First Evil, how were these characters morally grey? They were amusing and even funny, but again that's what I was saying, there's your 100% black right there.
Yet again proving you know nothing you talk about.
The Master had a very clear traits of caring for his family. He displayed grief and sadness and happiness. He also was built up as this delusional, old, senile man with the ilusion of the glory long past. A sort of nosferatu-archetype. All of that did not stop him from being evil.
Mayor Wilkins was one of the most unique and complex villains going as far as DEFINING an entire category of villains. He was an utterly normal and good man, except well, evil. He was genuinely HUMAN character and his touching relationship with certain other cast members as well as how the main character, Buffy, handled him in the end DEFINES gray morality.
The First Evil is a metaphysical concept and the one who says a LOT about the main character herself. Yet again its not "character" its a conceptual entity. Yet again unique kind of conceptual entity and its unfair to count it as "separate" character.
To say the characters I mentioned previously are morally white is like saying a woman who kills anothers baby out of rage and jealousy because she lost her own baby via another person's fault is morally white? What's up with that?
yes. morally white and misguided she would b e. Especially if she was shown to be sorry and miserable for what she did, tvd style.
TVD's premiere wasn't fun or hot, did you skip through Elena's bday and FW makeout?
Elena Swan's birthday made majority of viewers asleep and FW makeout is still quite controversially regarded on forwood fanbase as "too soon" as well as unfitting for the relationship buildup/forced by plot device convenience.
1. Can Elena get even more annoying without the show dividing reality by zero?
2. How fast will plec ruin forwood?
3. Will Caroline get chance to be awesome?
4. Can Damon/Elena Get more forced and yucky?
5. Can Stefan/Elena get more forced and yucky?
6. Can the entire cast get even more pathetic?
7. Can we get more Caroline scenes and less...everyone else's scenes?
To the people who are saying TVD is boring. You guys are saying that bc your a stelena fan. Every person who said they are quiting TVD or saying TVD is boring, is a stelena fan.
Well I don't have anything to say, but I can laugh at this. does LAUGHING at this count as answer of what I think about this "argument"?
How do they bring in rubbish characters? What do you call Elijah, Rebekah, Rose, Jules, Anna. Vicki? Vicki tried to kill Elena for Ester, Anna tried to find her mother and played a key role in Jeremy's life, Jules helped Tyler with all his werewolf stuff, Rose was a vamp who finally got Damon to feel, Rebekah and Elijah are originals. I dont see your arugement there. It makes no sense at all.
My argument makes perfect sense. Your counter argument on other hand only proves that those characters had only purpose of plot devices and then the show got rid of them. Thats the definition of bad writing right here.
, if forwood and caroline are the only reasons you watch this show, what happens on the episodes they don't appear?
usually lots of going to make food happens. Especially if its elena-full episode(since this show for some reason likes to add her into everything without even developing her into actual character beyond two sentence concept)
I don't get why you would watch a show
Because there are things I like in the show. Right now its Caroline, because S3 so far managed to make me dislike a LOT of stuff I used to like in this show :) . BTW I disagree with the whole "viewers loss when forwood + caroline is ruined" statement.
FW is the posterchild relationship of this show. Viewers almost universally love it, Press loves it, actors love it. Killing it would be suicidal. :)
Not everyone over analyzes these shows like this, people watch the show to be entertained, TVD gets the job done. Call me naive, stupid etc. but I'm entertained myself :)
All I can say, either your life is VERY dull thus you being VERY easily entertainment or your standards are VERY low.
TVD never was anything "Deep" or "complex" or heavily structurized and interesting. It was always a popcorn show. Sadly the popcorn is VERY burnt and very tasteless as of now :)
Ever notice how its only the registered viewers that over analyze as well as over critize the show? They seem to have this pompous, smarter-than-though attitude as well. Wonder what that's all about...
I believe(if i am not mistaken) thats called "thinking". :) The only reason s1 had more ratings was because the show was more of a teenage drama back then. Like 90210 with vampires thrown. Teenagers eat that stuff up ala Twilight. Once it became more mature they lost those viewers.
I am sorry but thats outright bs. :)
The first four episodes of TVD sure were teenager drama. Then show improved heavily in the rest of S1 and then in S2 it reverted BACK to teenager drama. S3 has been NOTHING but shallow twilight drama, complete with forced love triangle of Elena Swan and two edwards. :)
By the S2 episode Masquerade, the show started to age BACKWARDS and by now is way below the first episodes of S1. Why? As teeny as those episodes were, they at least were consistent and Elena was allowed to have personality.
. S3 has found the show's base audience. Fun fact btw the ratings have grown ever since that darn ghost episodea. Something must be in the viewers' water huh? Yes vampire diaries may be cliche most of the time, obviously a lot of us like that, don't we?
well obviously. Attracting Twilight audiences, especially with twilight movie franchise being on the roll lately, makes sense. :)
Let me make clear that I didn't have that much issues with season 2 or its character use. I'm trying to point out that you're clearly hungover season 2, so you can't look at season 3 with sober eyes.
And yet again no actual arguments there. What a surprise :)
And oh I see it very clear eyes. The precedent in the case is a very firm basis foundation of argumentation. :) TVD has the precedent of plot device characters who are never used to full potential. :)
You really only mentioned two useless characters in s3 since I'm dismissing the ghosts,I've already discussed this, as well as the hybrids and werewolf packs.
Original Family. Esther. Mikael. Gloria.
These groups were there to add to Klaus complexity as a villain.
Then the show most likely failed horribly, since those episodes added NOTHING to characterization of Klaus nor the show and even if anything was gained from them, the original family flashback and every scene of Klaus after those episodes ran anything of that build up into the ground. :)
No character development? What do you call what Damon went through the entire season 2?
Badass decay? Character derailment? Inconsistent character growth stalling? A lot of terms exist for what he "went through" :)
Elena's evolved maturity?
not sure if serious. :)
Elena did not "evolve". She did not even have her baseline of character established. There were no growth catalysts, nor her type of character was established. There is nothing to define her as protagonist and nothing to even define her as main character. S2 ran, whatever the concept of elena's character there was, into the ground and against all logical and accepted writing guidelines. :)
Tyler's loss of doucheness?
show never focused on this and actually completely and utterly skipped the development by having him leave town. :)
that if you're looking for a demon with absolutely no soul, no feelings, buffy is your cup of tea,
and she/he shoots again and misses yet again, yet again proving of having no idea on what is being talked about.
BTVS had very definition of distinct villain personalities. Every villain was multifaceted if following the gray morality setting or alien and different enough if following the blue and orange morality setting.
Let me get this straight what type of character would you describe Klaus, Katherine, Michael and even Damon? Morally white?
Let's see.
Klaus, Mikael = Family issues.
Katherine, Damon = Life misguided.
yep, thats white morality all around. Poor puppies who lost their ways but are so good at heart deep down :)
You told me presenting my opinion as facts without arhumentation is dumb, yet you're doing exactly the same thing by saying only badly written shows bring characters, previously dead, back you're doing exactly the same thing, or did I miss the memo for "statement"?
One does not have argument a fact.
Bringing ANY character from the death as plot device is pretty much frowned upon in writing community. If executed good and only focusing on ONE case, it can be good. oversaturating your written work with that is definition of bad writing. :)
Let's face the facts, alot of the viewers of this show want to either see Delena or Stelena romance. yes and a lot of twilight viewers love bella. Your point being? :)
Yes character development may have been made if they showed the mourning period, but that would've hurt the show.
Commercially? no proof of that.
Writing and structure wise? Nope. :)
A season premiere for a show like TVD, should be fun, hot and action-packed.
Too bad that TVD never had such premiere nor finale :)
That wasn't dumb writing, it was smart writing
already explained on why writers fudged up on timeskip. Won't do that again. :)
The timeskip, whil e not needed, could have been used in good way. Sadly it was NOT used in any way that would make sense to even basic understanding of good writing. :)
She got confronted for eye-f***g Damon by Caroline, who you obviously agreed with.
which was never presented as catalyst of growth.
Elena got kidnapped, got her family killed, etc, etc, etc. Its never used as catalyst of growth thus it does NOT matter to her character growth. :)
She can be quite manipulative( manipulated Bekah and Damon, back in Bad Moon Rising)
yet again that was never brought up as catalyst or opposition break-even point. Even if she did that, show keeps treating her as holy saint elena gilbert. :)
Definition of mary sue.
which Damon reffered to as very Katherine of her.
Damon, whom show portrays as utterly wrong? oh wow, what an achievement.
And it did nothing. And the show did not portray it in right way.
Viewers can see it any way they want, if the show and writers see and portray it differently, it changes nothing. :)
. You seem to have a huge issue with Elena since the end of S2, because God forbid she decide on what plan of action to be taken when it is she who needs to be killed.
Gazillion reasons on why teenager not-so-bright never-will-go-to-college girl should not plan out such things, include stuff like her being incoherently suicidal few days ago(bad writing again as her reaction to possibility of death), her age, the fact that a lot of people are SMARTER and the fact that majority of characters have no reason to trust her plan.
That was a perfect situation to create a growth catalyst to her character. an opposition, a challenge to her perspective. Nothing like that happened and don't even mention damon's ragefit since show perceives it as "wrong".
Maybe she was an idiot for not recognising the place where her plans can fault, bottom line.
and the show never perceived it as that, nor brought consequences, nor had her growth from the consequences or characters calling her out on that.
Elena remains a mary sue. A bella swan of this show. Certainly not a protagonist. NOthing about her defines main character role too. She is not even a character. SHe is two-sentence long concept, never brought to fruition beyond that, while at the same time sharing the main type traits with mary sue trope.
Bored now check your facts, tvd s1 and s3 ratings are almost matched
episode by episode? maybe. The overall progression? nope still going downward even though the current ratings are similar to the ratings progression at the end of S2.
Bad writing is not bad writing, bad writing is "I can't except the fact that Meredith is not in the show".
Nope. Bad writing is:
1) not developing characters correctly according to the most basic writing guidelines.
2) not following the most basic guidelines of plot line layout, resulting in retcons in story.
3) overusing certain cliches and tropes.
4) directly borrowing...oh wha I am saying, directly ripping off parts, scenes and characters of other shows.
TVD is guilty of all of that. Although its nice that instead of argumentation you are trying to play it all as "biased" fanbase opinion. Real cute.
Correct me if I'm wrong Bored now, but are we talking about S3 or S2, please clear that up, since most of your useless charscters mentioned are from S2, coincidentally the season with the lowest ratings, interesting.
Gloria. Ghost Storyline. Jenna's friend girl who died. Werewolf packs. Hybrids.
Also its quite naive and hypocritical to try to "separate" seasons one from other. Its the same writers. If the writers changed then SURE by all means lets discount the previous cases, but so far, since its the same two writers participating, all cases of all seasons apply.
There are no truly black ideas in this show because no person in the world is 100% evil.
Yes. Instead of that, everyone in TVD is 100% good but misguided or with family issues :)
TVD has no gray morality, it does not have black and white too, it has white and white because of writers utter inability to define morality. No matter how you try to spin it. :)
If you're into that check back to buffy.
For one, we finally know that you have no idea what you are talking about.
For two, funny you bring that show up, considering that show had one of most morally complex,multi-faceted, realistic and flawed character casts ever. But then again, this proves you have no idea what you are talking about and lowers the value of those arguments don't even try to provide even more.
Sursprisingly the whole last chapter of season 2, many viewpoints were shown against Elena
That being?
Damon! And the show portrayed his stance against Elena as WRONG, going as far as making him be SORRY for that.
Otherwise everyone, including hundred year old and thousand year old vampires went along with her plans that ended up catastrophically. No consequences. Elena continues to plan. Elena is Right.
NO matter ho you try to spin it, show is trying to portray Elena as morally right and as someone who does no wrong. Except thats not the case.
Now onto other comments...
------------------------------------ How can you say jenna's death is Elena's fault when she never asked for any of this to happen to her? It's not her fault that she's katherine's doppleganger and that Katherine called Jenna to lure her out.
No. But she asked for her plan to be carried out which directly resulted in these deaths. It was her choices and decisions that resulted in that and show does note vne try to portray her as feeling guilty.
One thing for certain is that this is a SUPERNATURAL show.
does not account for lack of realism. I see this excuse thrown around a lot, but this excuse does not excuse anything.
Just because genre ALLOWS that kind of thing, does not mean that its a good writing. :)
Therefore, "no one dies for real" is to be expected in these kind of shows. Although not all supernatural shows do this.
Yes. Those with good writing do not do this. :)
I think it is wise there writers did the timeskip in season 3, skipping the whole summer and started the season towards the end of summer, searching stefan etc.
doing timeskip is unwise for a lot of reasons:
1) it skips entire grieving period destroying possibility for sorely lacking character development.
2) it is poorly executed without any dynamic changes making the timeskip only formal, thus making it an excuse to avoid character development.
3) it is not used in an y way except for avoiding doing things the show sorely lacks.
If the show started right after and showed their mourns and everything else, it would seem too forced and quick.
and the show skipping to them going over to a movie next morning and then focusing on very lackluster stockholm syndrome search storyline of s3 is totally not forced nor quick! ~
And I don't think DE pairing was forced because the build up of their chemistry was shown from Season 1.
yes. S1 had a goo dbuild up.
S2 had none of buildup.
S3 seems to want to throw characters randomly hoping for chemistry of actors to support the ridiculous forced scenes.
It stopped growing in S1 and became unrealistic and highly YUCK worthy in S2.
And it seems reasonable that Elena might have feelings for Damon as they've grown closer after everything they've been through plus the searching of Stefan process.
Elena, the holy does no wrong mary sue of caring and holyness, suddenly develops feelings for a personw ho banged her mother, banged her identical twin ancestor, killed her brother in front of her eyes, chewed on bonnie, tried to kill caroline, caused bonnie grandma's death, occasionally kills alaric, RAPED and ABUSED Caroline FOR WEEKS, RAPED AND ABUSED Jenna's friend for WEEKS.
She does the whole falling in love btw while searching for her another abusive boyfriend who has disappeared willingly and its all her fault.
Yep, totally realistic and makes sense. :)
-------------onto next one----------- People will love, people will hate, you don't need to write a whole essay analyzing every sentence a person writes!
yes you do. Unargumented "opinion" is worth rubbish. Its merely an echo of something that should not be even taken into an account.
If one can't argument his opinion, then he/she/it might as well not have one. :)
a healthy view or opinion is one thing. and when you don't even like the show...it's just weird!
Nope thats called criticism.
I like one thing in the show - Caroline. There are dozens of peoplelike that, who liked a lot of things and seen the potential this show had and sadly were very disappointed with the build up.
I am pretty sure the moment these writers ruin Caroline or forwood, a lot of fanbase will disappear onto better things than tvd, ala how it happened with Heroes. :)
Let me start by asking what percentage of users on this site actually make up the millions of viewers at home.
Twilight has thousands of millions of "viewers". Does it make Twilight any good? no.
And TVD's viewership is nowhere the level it was in S1. :) Thats a fact. have not read the books and clearly some of the comments on this page were only made by die hard TVD book fans.
Does not matter. bad writing is bad writing. :) How can you dismiss a character before she even appeared. Ever think of waiting to see what happens?
Due to everyone already having thousands of precedents of this show introducing rubbish characters, not even using them for anything decent and then killing them off inm some anti-climatic way.
Isobel? Jenna? John? Jonah family? Rose of Boredom? Trevor? All the werewolf fodder? Anna?
Need I continue?
One thing I love about TVD is that its never black and white, so to say that Elena is always correct or a saint is bull.
prove it.
TVD does not even present a CHALLENGE to her moral viewpoints - one of the most important things a writer HAS to do to develop a character.
Also everything in how the show is written proves this show to be WHite and White morality since we have yet to get a truly BLACK idea, character, moral decision or event. :)
They leave it up to the viewer to pick their own side.
Yes. By never calling out or challenging Elena's decision, not making other characters call out on her bullshit or PAY for mistakes or SUFFER for mistakes and without the show ACCEPTING THAT AS what is happening.
Viewers can have all the opinions they want. In-unvierse, in-show Elena GIlbert is infallible flawless Mary Sue, who never does no wrong and everyone always go with her plans.
, just because you didn't like or approve one storyline does not make the season bad.
Nope. No one cares about "storyline". Its the execution and writing that fails. Its not up to even the most basic standards of writing, coherence or characterization.
. Some people loved the ghosts, others didn't, you're never gonna like every storyline of the show, this includes the forwood breakup, to say a season is bad because of that is dumb. T
No.
Presenting your opinions as facts without any argumentation is dumb.
The most basic rules of writing are not "opinions". Thats like saying math is an opinion. Or hell, physics - some people like gravity, others don't, let's all float because of that. :)
The writers obviously want you to go on this emotional trip with forwood because they know how much everyone likes them.
And as show has proven again and again, these writers completely and utterly fail at creating sensible angst, executing it or building up atmospheric situations.
.C'mon did you really expect them to stay together on a teen show like this? That's just naïve.
Nope. Thats coherence. :)
Obviously forwood should have bumps in road, but FW was never about heavy-handed angst or domestic abuse(aka DE and SE). It was always an optimistic and light relationship. Trying to inject DE-type of forced angst ruins it. Takes away the distinct aroma, distinct flavor that differs FORWOOD form the abusive sick dysfunctionalities that are DE and SE. :)
If you really think the ghost story was a waste, I heard vicki may make another appearance, for all you guys who hated it, I hope it'll finally make sense to you,
I have no doubts writers will ruin it as always. :)
I'm afraid you may drown in the awkward stench of your pathetic, pessimistic attitudes.
jeepers! someone actually criticizes the things you like and has actual irrefutable arguments to do so. what a horrible world!... :)
Comments by Invested In Your Future (Page 33)
The Vampire Diaries Teaser #3: A Return To...
witchouse?
Considering this show has whopping total of 5 sets, not so hard.
The Vampire Diaries Teaser #2: A Secret Revealed
I am sorry but then you have very warped sense of criticism. criticism is ALWAYS negative. IT can be either argumented/constructive or fallacious/destructive.
If there are flaws they should and WOULD be picked apart by coherent part of fanbase. It just so happens that right now TVD's flaws outweigh its better sides 10 to 1.
The Vampire Diaries Teaser #2: A Secret Revealed
That would mean criticism in the world would be non-existent. Thankfully in democratic countries, when one messes up in huge ways, one gets openly criticized for doing so :)
TVD messed up. BIG TIME. :)
And rest of the show? Sorry but currently there's NO resto of the show. The show is way too busy focusing on holy-messiah-never-wrong Elena Gilbert, holy-misguided-always-wrong-rapist Damon Salvatore, holy-hero-always-suffers Steffie and holy-plot-device-of-magic Bonnie. No one else exists in this show sadly :)
The Vampire Diaries Teaser #2: A Secret Revealed
No seriously, with the "SecretS" this show tried to pull offf and failed(viking originals anyone?)I do not expect anything grand or even decent from this.
The Vampire Diaries 2012 Premiere Teaser: Who Leaves Mystic Falls?
But before he leaves he comes in, slaps elena, calls her out on her being cardboard she is and her shitty plans and leaves the town for good then.
Otherwise frankly I don't care who. AS long as its not tyler or caroline. These two need to stay.
TV Fanatic Staff Round Table: Best New Show of 2011
TV Fanatic Staff Round Table: The Best Show of 2011
The quality of the actors, the set and costume designs. THE PERFECT ADAPTATION of the book itself(of course they removed some dreams, etc), one of the MOST AWESOME opening sequences. Really, do I need to continue? Its VERY obvious why Game of THrones IS the best show of 2011.
Revenge comes close though.
As for people crying aboud lack of tvd in the list? Did it ever struck you that it was not EVEN CLOSE to best show of 2011? 99% stuff on air was just so much better.
The Vampire Diaries Picture Preview: "The New Deal"
Well thats because there's NOTHING else to be said about this show right now. :)
The cons far outweigh and outnumber the pros. Caroline and her plotlines ARE pretty much the only pro of this show now.
Why do people bring up elena, death-issue, etc, etc again and again? Because show keeps borking up there.
And just because one of the shows that HAD potential to be decent are going down the drain, I see no reason to stop saying what I think about each jump-the-shark idea Plec gets :)
What Was the Highest Rated Show of the Fall?
The Vampire Diaries Picture Preview: "The New Deal"
Like it or not a whole lot of people here watch this show purely because of caroline.
Why? because whatever cahracters or plots we liked, this show has already turned them into trainwreck.
She IS the defacto main character of this show.
And I am sure that entire caroline fanbase will stop watching this show if they ruin her :)
Also what you call negativity I call criticism. The show is far from perfect and everyone has every right to talk about that :) Its not a fansite or fanforum . :)
The Vampire Diaries Picture Preview: "The New Deal"
Extended Revenge Sneak Peek: The Opening Minutes of "Duress"
Nolan and Emily making up and sorting out their differences... YESS
Also, Devious emily is devious. Please...never change.
Revenge is the awesomest thing to happen to tv this year.
TV Fanatic Staff Round Table: The Worst Show of 2011
otherwise I'd say this was quite a good year actually.
Matt Smith Confirms Return to Doctor Who
No Karen Gillan - no deal.
I am already irritated at certain plotlines in latest seasons of this show and without Karen Gillan there's nothing to care about this doctor, so I guess I will skip the next pond-less smith-season
The Vampire Diaries Picture Preview: "The New Deal"
LOL AT Jeremy. Well this show has jumped the shark now.
Alaric seems to have gotten over Jenna awfully fast...oh wait, who's jenna? right, no one. show forgot she existed.
Otherwise too much Miss Cardboard Elena Swan in those screenshots to get excited about anything.
I guess TVD will premiere WEEK after this for me since I will skip this one. Why? This has no caroline.
The Vampire Diaries Return Scoop: Evil Klaus, Dark Elena and More!
LOL at "darker elena". Too late its too late. She got kidnapped THREE times, had people die around her, encountered her evil twin who stabbed her father and tried to mess up her life, got smacked around by thousand year old vampires, got her own family dead, got DEAD and that did absolutely nothing, NOTHING to her as character.(because writers forgot to develop her)
Now are we supposed to believe that steffie dumping her had such a big impact? I LOL'd.
The Vampire Diaries Countdown: 7 Questions for 7 Days
If you hate what the show is really about so much don't watch it.
good use of logical fallacy...not.
Expecting criticism to "shut up" just because you dislike it is, well, childish.
I hate ignorant people who nit pick
Well, too bad you have been (most likely) born in democratic country where free speech is one of the major values of life and state.
and compare new shows to old ones.
Isn't that exactly how critique works?
One takes his opinion, arguments it with constructive arguments based upon facts, existing cases and the main basic theory on the subject and defends it.
Reality check, Buffy and angel were both canceled and the Vampire Diaries was not made as a replacement
I beg to differ. If those shows did not exist, there would be no TVD. Thats a fact for obvious reasons (aka tvd ripping those shows off and TRYING to copy them yet failing).
The writers would not try to appease that audience nor they would try to copy characters and plot ideas if that was the case.
My advice, next time the show comes on, watch something else so we don't have to read your bitching.
Nice use of logical fallacies oh and let me fix a grammar mistake for you.
Its not "We" its "I".
Also opinions and constructive criticism is normal part of life - deal with it.
Torrey DeVitto Previews Stint on The Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars Return
Yep. I watch tvd to be entertained. ALthough EVEN guilty pleasure has limits on suspension of disbelief. There's a very slim line between guilty pleasure and trainwreck. TVD is treading upon trainwreck nowadays.
What is with al the twilight references, I HATE Twilight and whenever I here the two being compared I gag,
Because the only difference RIGHT NOW between them is that TVD has comparably better actors.
I see no similarity between Elena and Bell( for one Elena actually thinks of others).
Coming after entire half season where Elena has been constantly putting the entire town in danger by going after steffie's certain golden male parts who have ran away from her, that sounds funny.
Considering that the show treats her in exactly the same way as bella swan, its even funny.
Add to that her typical mary sue traits and nonexistent character development and the funny just keeps on coming.
So any and all comments creating a link between the two is just a waste.
then provide significant counter arguments on why its not so. Oh wait, you have none.
It's actually funny how much you know about twilight, considering you don't seem to like it very much.
Everyone knows about twilight.
Everyone knows about The Room.
Everyone Knows about Heroes
The utter standards of badness and bad writing. Hey, to TVD's credit, at least the writing is NOT as awful as in The Room.
What teenage drama in season 2?
How about the entirety of S2 being one huge steaming pile of DES love triangle forcing its way to everything? Even Katherine, a promising villain with good build up got thrown into that teenage drama circle. S3 is exactly the same, but worse and with Klaus instead of Kat.
Again the useless character lists, only Gloria is really justified. Also notice how it has dramatically shrunk?
Yet again no arguments.
And yes, it has dramatically shrunk since I excluded S1 and S2 characters. Logic dictates it would be shorter than with them.
I want proof of this fact that bringing dead characters back is bad.
wow. I don't think you even realize how absurd that sentence sounds.
I request the proof of the fact that earth is not flat.
Apart form linking to your local university or library, not much I can help you. Yet again commonsense and basic level of education is needed to get why bringing back characters from death and oversaturating your fictional work with that is bad.
Alot of viewers want to see Stelena or Delena, my point being a premiere episode should focus on them, not the mourning of Jenna.
Why is that? Why can't according to you grieving intersect with the relationships?
Grief and death is a powerful catalyst in writing characters and stories, as well as relationships. The very fact that writers shied away from that only proves my point of both timeskip being improper, timeskip being wasted, characters not being developed AND death having no consequence in this show...welll, nothing has consequence in this show.
Btw I cried when she died, so she couldn't have been that useless could she?
Congratulations being on minority. After gazillion of not-deaths and cop outs in this show, her death was a relief at best and a lot of smart people cheered and feared she would get up. Why? because show did not establish death as HUGE thing. And it continues to NOT establish it as huge inevitable thing. Death is plot device at best in TVD. Death was not realistic nor shocking, hell it was expected after how the character was handled. The only question in viewers heads was will she stay dead. Praying she would and expecting SOME SORT of reaction from everyone else.
Sadly no reaction ever came from that and Jenna just ceased to exist.
Viewers almost universally love Stefan/Elena/Damon, Press loves it, actors love it. Killing it would be suicidal. :)
Any proof of that?
For one you listed a triangle and not a pairing.
For second, both in this forum/site and in overall internet you will either find DE, SE or neither-relationship viewers. On other hand you most likely won't find nay matt/caroline fans and 99% of viewwers you encounter will ship forwood or watch show for it.
Press does not "love" de/se. It HYPES it. There's a wide-ranging difference from being hyped as epic and actually be featured in photoshoots and magazine covers as well as talked about frequently as proved by writer interviews(with KW being pretty much giddy about forwood and caroline), this site itself and overall fanbase.
How did it fail in Klaus characteriazation, if it showed how desperate he was not to be alone and how desperately he needed allies?
It was a chance to develop Klaus into complex persona. It failed to do that, marginalizing the supposed layers of character and isolating each of them from the other. Yet again, lacking basic writing consistency.
Wether they use these situations to further Elena's character flaws or not, the viewer is, hopefully, smart enough to fill in the unnecasarry time wasting blanks for themselves.
We know Bella Swan is mary sue and an example of nonexistant character. Doe snot change the way writers portray her in the works.
Same with Elena Gilbert.
What you said just proves that writers have no abilities to consistently develop characters, write them and their growth. If Writer is successful with writing a character then the viewer fanbase will have the exact same impresion of character o decision a des the show lore and writers themselves. If character is supposed to have multiple interpretations, same - both writers, show lore, show producer and viewers will see it that way. TVD utterly fails at that since writer and show perception of Elena differs GREATLY from viewer perception of her.
She is a mary sue through
TVD prides themselves on being fast-paced, for all these character development situations you're asking for, would damage that
So good writing would damage popcorn? makes no sense sadly and if writers can't handle writing and developing characters in fast paced setting then it only proves my point of them incapable of developing those characters and maybe they should either drop the pacing or should not even have taken up this job upon themselves?
You're saying that a teenager whose willing to sacrifice herself for others hasn't matured at all?
Her reaction to death is the definition of mary sue.
Such an utter sacrificial tendencies are impossible psychologically unless Elena would have a built up suicidal tendencies. Every person has an irrational fears of dark and death.
The way her "sacrifice" story was handled made her fullblown mary sue and ensured that her character would stay stalled at the two-line description it began with. we had no reaction from her to the concept of death.
The Master, mayor wilkins, The First Evil, how were these characters morally grey? They were amusing and even funny, but again that's what I was saying, there's your 100% black right there.
Yet again proving you know nothing you talk about.
The Master had a very clear traits of caring for his family. He displayed grief and sadness and happiness. He also was built up as this delusional, old, senile man with the ilusion of the glory long past. A sort of nosferatu-archetype. All of that did not stop him from being evil.
Mayor Wilkins was one of the most unique and complex villains going as far as DEFINING an entire category of villains. He was an utterly normal and good man, except well, evil. He was genuinely HUMAN character and his touching relationship with certain other cast members as well as how the main character, Buffy, handled him in the end DEFINES gray morality.
The First Evil is a metaphysical concept and the one who says a LOT about the main character herself. Yet again its not "character" its a conceptual entity. Yet again unique kind of conceptual entity and its unfair to count it as "separate" character.
To say the characters I mentioned previously are morally white is like saying a woman who kills anothers baby out of rage and jealousy because she lost her own baby via another person's fault is morally white? What's up with that?
yes. morally white and misguided she would b e. Especially if she was shown to be sorry and miserable for what she did, tvd style.
TVD's premiere wasn't fun or hot, did you skip through Elena's bday and FW makeout?
Elena Swan's birthday made majority of viewers asleep and FW makeout is still quite controversially regarded on forwood fanbase as "too soon" as well as unfitting for the relationship buildup/forced by plot device convenience.
The Vampire Diaries Countdown: 7 Questions for 7 Days
2. How fast will plec ruin forwood?
3. Will Caroline get chance to be awesome?
4. Can Damon/Elena Get more forced and yucky?
5. Can Stefan/Elena get more forced and yucky?
6. Can the entire cast get even more pathetic?
7. Can we get more Caroline scenes and less...everyone else's scenes?
Torrey DeVitto Previews Stint on The Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars Return
Well I don't have anything to say, but I can laugh at this. does LAUGHING at this count as answer of what I think about this "argument"?
How do they bring in rubbish characters? What do you call Elijah, Rebekah, Rose, Jules, Anna. Vicki? Vicki tried to kill Elena for Ester, Anna tried to find her mother and played a key role in Jeremy's life, Jules helped Tyler with all his werewolf stuff, Rose was a vamp who finally got Damon to feel, Rebekah and Elijah are originals. I dont see your arugement there. It makes no sense at all.
My argument makes perfect sense. Your counter argument on other hand only proves that those characters had only purpose of plot devices and then the show got rid of them. Thats the definition of bad writing right here.
, if forwood and caroline are the only reasons you watch this show, what happens on the episodes they don't appear?
usually lots of going to make food happens. Especially if its elena-full episode(since this show for some reason likes to add her into everything without even developing her into actual character beyond two sentence concept)
I don't get why you would watch a show
Because there are things I like in the show. Right now its Caroline, because S3 so far managed to make me dislike a LOT of stuff I used to like in this show :)
. BTW I disagree with the whole "viewers loss when forwood + caroline is ruined" statement.
FW is the posterchild relationship of this show. Viewers almost universally love it, Press loves it, actors love it. Killing it would be suicidal. :)
Not everyone over analyzes these shows like this, people watch the show to be entertained, TVD gets the job done. Call me naive, stupid etc. but I'm entertained myself :)
All I can say, either your life is VERY dull thus you being VERY easily entertainment or your standards are VERY low.
TVD never was anything "Deep" or "complex" or heavily structurized and interesting. It was always a popcorn show. Sadly the popcorn is VERY burnt and very tasteless as of now :)
Ever notice how its only the registered viewers that over analyze as well as over critize the show? They seem to have this pompous, smarter-than-though attitude as well. Wonder what that's all about...
I believe(if i am not mistaken) thats called "thinking". :)
The only reason s1 had more ratings was because the show was more of a teenage drama back then. Like 90210 with vampires thrown. Teenagers eat that stuff up ala Twilight. Once it became more mature they lost those viewers.
I am sorry but thats outright bs. :)
The first four episodes of TVD sure were teenager drama. Then show improved heavily in the rest of S1 and then in S2 it reverted BACK to teenager drama. S3 has been NOTHING but shallow twilight drama, complete with forced love triangle of Elena Swan and two edwards. :)
By the S2 episode Masquerade, the show started to age BACKWARDS and by now is way below the first episodes of S1. Why? As teeny as those episodes were, they at least were consistent and Elena was allowed to have personality.
. S3 has found the show's base audience. Fun fact btw the ratings have grown ever since that darn ghost episodea. Something must be in the viewers' water huh? Yes vampire diaries may be cliche most of the time, obviously a lot of us like that, don't we?
well obviously. Attracting Twilight audiences, especially with twilight movie franchise being on the roll lately, makes sense. :)
Let me make clear that I didn't have that much issues with season 2 or its character use. I'm trying to point out that you're clearly hungover season 2, so you can't look at season 3 with sober eyes.
And yet again no actual arguments there. What a surprise :)
And oh I see it very clear eyes. The precedent in the case is a very firm basis foundation of argumentation. :) TVD has the precedent of plot device characters who are never used to full potential. :)
You really only mentioned two useless characters in s3 since I'm dismissing the ghosts,I've already discussed this, as well as the hybrids and werewolf packs.
Original Family. Esther. Mikael. Gloria.
These groups were there to add to Klaus complexity as a villain.
Then the show most likely failed horribly, since those episodes added NOTHING to characterization of Klaus nor the show and even if anything was gained from them, the original family flashback and every scene of Klaus after those episodes ran anything of that build up into the ground. :)
No character development? What do you call what Damon went through the entire season 2?
Badass decay? Character derailment? Inconsistent character growth stalling? A lot of terms exist for what he "went through" :)
Elena's evolved maturity?
not sure if serious. :)
Elena did not "evolve". She did not even have her baseline of character established. There were no growth catalysts, nor her type of character was established. There is nothing to define her as protagonist and nothing to even define her as main character. S2 ran, whatever the concept of elena's character there was, into the ground and against all logical and accepted writing guidelines. :)
Tyler's loss of doucheness?
show never focused on this and actually completely and utterly skipped the development by having him leave town. :)
that if you're looking for a demon with absolutely no soul, no feelings, buffy is your cup of tea,
and she/he shoots again and misses yet again, yet again proving of having no idea on what is being talked about.
BTVS had very definition of distinct villain personalities. Every villain was multifaceted if following the gray morality setting or alien and different enough if following the blue and orange morality setting.
Let me get this straight what type of character would you describe Klaus, Katherine, Michael and even Damon? Morally white?
Let's see.
Klaus, Mikael = Family issues.
Katherine, Damon = Life misguided.
yep, thats white morality all around. Poor puppies who lost their ways but are so good at heart deep down :)
You told me presenting my opinion as facts without arhumentation is dumb, yet you're doing exactly the same thing by saying only badly written shows bring characters, previously dead, back you're doing exactly the same thing, or did I miss the memo for "statement"?
One does not have argument a fact.
Bringing ANY character from the death as plot device is pretty much frowned upon in writing community. If executed good and only focusing on ONE case, it can be good. oversaturating your written work with that is definition of bad writing. :)
Let's face the facts, alot of the viewers of this show want to either see Delena or Stelena romance. yes and a lot of twilight viewers love bella. Your point being? :)
Yes character development may have been made if they showed the mourning period, but that would've hurt the show.
Commercially? no proof of that.
Writing and structure wise? Nope. :)
A season premiere for a show like TVD, should be fun, hot and action-packed.
Too bad that TVD never had such premiere nor finale :)
That wasn't dumb writing, it was smart writing
already explained on why writers fudged up on timeskip. Won't do that again. :)
The timeskip, whil e not needed, could have been used in good way. Sadly it was NOT used in any way that would make sense to even basic understanding of good writing. :)
She got confronted for eye-f***g Damon by Caroline, who you obviously agreed with.
which was never presented as catalyst of growth.
Elena got kidnapped, got her family killed, etc, etc, etc. Its never used as catalyst of growth thus it does NOT matter to her character growth. :)
She can be quite manipulative( manipulated Bekah and Damon, back in Bad Moon Rising)
yet again that was never brought up as catalyst or opposition break-even point. Even if she did that, show keeps treating her as holy saint elena gilbert. :)
Definition of mary sue.
which Damon reffered to as very Katherine of her.
Damon, whom show portrays as utterly wrong? oh wow, what an achievement.
And it did nothing. And the show did not portray it in right way.
Viewers can see it any way they want, if the show and writers see and portray it differently, it changes nothing. :)
. You seem to have a huge issue with Elena since the end of S2, because God forbid she decide on what plan of action to be taken when it is she who needs to be killed.
Gazillion reasons on why teenager not-so-bright never-will-go-to-college girl should not plan out such things, include stuff like her being incoherently suicidal few days ago(bad writing again as her reaction to possibility of death), her age, the fact that a lot of people are SMARTER and the fact that majority of characters have no reason to trust her plan.
That was a perfect situation to create a growth catalyst to her character. an opposition, a challenge to her perspective. Nothing like that happened and don't even mention damon's ragefit since show perceives it as "wrong".
Maybe she was an idiot for not recognising the place where her plans can fault, bottom line.
and the show never perceived it as that, nor brought consequences, nor had her growth from the consequences or characters calling her out on that.
Elena remains a mary sue. A bella swan of this show. Certainly not a protagonist. NOthing about her defines main character role too. She is not even a character. SHe is two-sentence long concept, never brought to fruition beyond that, while at the same time sharing the main type traits with mary sue trope.
Torrey DeVitto Previews Stint on The Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars Return
episode by episode? maybe. The overall progression? nope still going downward even though the current ratings are similar to the ratings progression at the end of S2.
Bad writing is not bad writing, bad writing is "I can't except the fact that Meredith is not in the show".
Nope. Bad writing is:
1) not developing characters correctly according to the most basic writing guidelines.
2) not following the most basic guidelines of plot line layout, resulting in retcons in story.
3) overusing certain cliches and tropes.
4) directly borrowing...oh wha I am saying, directly ripping off parts, scenes and characters of other shows.
TVD is guilty of all of that. Although its nice that instead of argumentation you are trying to play it all as "biased" fanbase opinion. Real cute.
Correct me if I'm wrong Bored now, but are we talking about S3 or S2, please clear that up, since most of your useless charscters mentioned are from S2, coincidentally the season with the lowest ratings, interesting.
Gloria. Ghost Storyline. Jenna's friend girl who died. Werewolf packs. Hybrids.
Also its quite naive and hypocritical to try to "separate" seasons one from other. Its the same writers. If the writers changed then SURE by all means lets discount the previous cases, but so far, since its the same two writers participating, all cases of all seasons apply.
There are no truly black ideas in this show because no person in the world is 100% evil.
Yes. Instead of that, everyone in TVD is 100% good but misguided or with family issues :)
TVD has no gray morality, it does not have black and white too, it has white and white because of writers utter inability to define morality. No matter how you try to spin it. :)
If you're into that check back to buffy.
For one, we finally know that you have no idea what you are talking about.
For two, funny you bring that show up, considering that show had one of most morally complex,multi-faceted, realistic and flawed character casts ever. But then again, this proves you have no idea what you are talking about and lowers the value of those arguments don't even try to provide even more.
Sursprisingly the whole last chapter of season 2, many viewpoints were shown against Elena
That being?
Damon! And the show portrayed his stance against Elena as WRONG, going as far as making him be SORRY for that.
Otherwise everyone, including hundred year old and thousand year old vampires went along with her plans that ended up catastrophically. No consequences. Elena continues to plan. Elena is Right.
NO matter ho you try to spin it, show is trying to portray Elena as morally right and as someone who does no wrong. Except thats not the case.
Now onto other comments...
------------------------------------
How can you say jenna's death is Elena's fault when she never asked for any of this to happen to her? It's not her fault that she's katherine's doppleganger and that Katherine called Jenna to lure her out.
No. But she asked for her plan to be carried out which directly resulted in these deaths. It was her choices and decisions that resulted in that and show does note vne try to portray her as feeling guilty.
One thing for certain is that this is a SUPERNATURAL show.
does not account for lack of realism. I see this excuse thrown around a lot, but this excuse does not excuse anything.
Just because genre ALLOWS that kind of thing, does not mean that its a good writing. :)
Therefore, "no one dies for real" is to be expected in these kind of shows. Although not all supernatural shows do this.
Yes. Those with good writing do not do this. :)
I think it is wise there writers did the timeskip in season 3, skipping the whole summer and started the season towards the end of summer, searching stefan etc.
doing timeskip is unwise for a lot of reasons:
1) it skips entire grieving period destroying possibility for sorely lacking character development.
2) it is poorly executed without any dynamic changes making the timeskip only formal, thus making it an excuse to avoid character development.
3) it is not used in an y way except for avoiding doing things the show sorely lacks.
If the show started right after and showed their mourns and everything else, it would seem too forced and quick.
and the show skipping to them going over to a movie next morning and then focusing on very lackluster stockholm syndrome search storyline of s3 is totally not forced nor quick! ~
And I don't think DE pairing was forced because the build up of their chemistry was shown from Season 1.
yes. S1 had a goo dbuild up.
S2 had none of buildup.
S3 seems to want to throw characters randomly hoping for chemistry of actors to support the ridiculous forced scenes.
It stopped growing in S1 and became unrealistic and highly YUCK worthy in S2.
And it seems reasonable that Elena might have feelings for Damon as they've grown closer after everything they've been through plus the searching of Stefan process.
Elena, the holy does no wrong mary sue of caring and holyness, suddenly develops feelings for a personw ho banged her mother, banged her identical twin ancestor, killed her brother in front of her eyes, chewed on bonnie, tried to kill caroline, caused bonnie grandma's death, occasionally kills alaric, RAPED and ABUSED Caroline FOR WEEKS, RAPED AND ABUSED Jenna's friend for WEEKS.
She does the whole falling in love btw while searching for her another abusive boyfriend who has disappeared willingly and its all her fault.
Yep, totally realistic and makes sense. :)
-------------onto next one-----------
People will love, people will hate, you don't need to write a whole essay analyzing every sentence a person writes!
yes you do. Unargumented "opinion" is worth rubbish. Its merely an echo of something that should not be even taken into an account.
If one can't argument his opinion, then he/she/it might as well not have one. :)
a healthy view or opinion is one thing. and when you don't even like the show...it's just weird!
Nope thats called criticism.
I like one thing in the show - Caroline. There are dozens of peoplelike that, who liked a lot of things and seen the potential this show had and sadly were very disappointed with the build up.
I am pretty sure the moment these writers ruin Caroline or forwood, a lot of fanbase will disappear onto better things than tvd, ala how it happened with Heroes. :)
The Vampire Diaries Episode Description: "Our Town"
Hopefully the horribly dumb steff plotline is finaly put out of its misery once and for all and they tone down on DES shennanigans.
More Caroline, less Triangle of Doom.
Torrey DeVitto Previews Stint on The Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars Return
Twilight has thousands of millions of "viewers". Does it make Twilight any good? no.
And TVD's viewership is nowhere the level it was in S1. :) Thats a fact.
have not read the books and clearly some of the comments on this page were only made by die hard TVD book fans.
Does not matter. bad writing is bad writing. :)
How can you dismiss a character before she even appeared. Ever think of waiting to see what happens?
Due to everyone already having thousands of precedents of this show introducing rubbish characters, not even using them for anything decent and then killing them off inm some anti-climatic way.
Isobel? Jenna? John? Jonah family? Rose of Boredom? Trevor? All the werewolf fodder? Anna?
Need I continue?
One thing I love about TVD is that its never black and white, so to say that Elena is always correct or a saint is bull.
prove it.
TVD does not even present a CHALLENGE to her moral viewpoints - one of the most important things a writer HAS to do to develop a character.
Also everything in how the show is written proves this show to be WHite and White morality since we have yet to get a truly BLACK idea, character, moral decision or event. :)
They leave it up to the viewer to pick their own side.
Yes. By never calling out or challenging Elena's decision, not making other characters call out on her bullshit or PAY for mistakes or SUFFER for mistakes and without the show ACCEPTING THAT AS what is happening.
Viewers can have all the opinions they want. In-unvierse, in-show Elena GIlbert is infallible flawless Mary Sue, who never does no wrong and everyone always go with her plans.
, just because you didn't like or approve one storyline does not make the season bad.
Nope. No one cares about "storyline". Its the execution and writing that fails. Its not up to even the most basic standards of writing, coherence or characterization.
. Some people loved the ghosts, others didn't, you're never gonna like every storyline of the show, this includes the forwood breakup, to say a season is bad because of that is dumb. T
No.
Presenting your opinions as facts without any argumentation is dumb.
The most basic rules of writing are not "opinions". Thats like saying math is an opinion. Or hell, physics - some people like gravity, others don't, let's all float because of that. :)
The writers obviously want you to go on this emotional trip with forwood because they know how much everyone likes them.
And as show has proven again and again, these writers completely and utterly fail at creating sensible angst, executing it or building up atmospheric situations.
.C'mon did you really expect them to stay together on a teen show like this? That's just naïve.
Nope. Thats coherence. :)
Obviously forwood should have bumps in road, but FW was never about heavy-handed angst or domestic abuse(aka DE and SE). It was always an optimistic and light relationship. Trying to inject DE-type of forced angst ruins it. Takes away the distinct aroma, distinct flavor that differs FORWOOD form the abusive sick dysfunctionalities that are DE and SE. :)
If you really think the ghost story was a waste, I heard vicki may make another appearance, for all you guys who hated it, I hope it'll finally make sense to you,
I have no doubts writers will ruin it as always. :)
I'm afraid you may drown in the awkward stench of your pathetic, pessimistic attitudes.
jeepers! someone actually criticizes the things you like and has actual irrefutable arguments to do so. what a horrible world!... :)
Torrey DeVitto Previews Stint on The Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars Return
Obviously, those two are in the minority.
You are new in this site, aren't you? :)
Majority of use here share the opinion on this season :)
Torrey DeVitto Previews Stint on The Vampire Diaries, Pretty Little Liars Return
Truly proves their side right :)
Its nice to see that people have yet to post anything to actually counter the fact that S3 IS the worst season of this show :)