Just another question for all you guys, following some excellent comments over the last few hours. Do you guys see the great writing and ironic swing that has taken place this season? I am not happy with it, but we started with Neil being a hard working, loving father and husband, but by trying to live up to expectations, lost touch with his wife. Grace turned into a weak, cheating wife. Now today we have Grace, being the one in control. She's the one that can either support their family and husband or decide, to continue on her current role . meanwhile, all Neil can do is sit back and watch. Sure he can try to tell Grace, exactly how he feels, but at this time, I don't think Grace wants to hear it. He's left as a sad ,devastated husband and father, while Grace is now in the power role.
That's because he cares and she is caring about herself.
What would you have had Grace do in the pilot, other than reach out to another man? No one listened to her, especially Neil. Her sister seemed free and having fun all the time. Grace's book club of female friends was boring. Her daughter ran to her sister for advice, not her. None of Grace's dreams had been realized. What would you advise a reasonably intelligent woman to do at that point in her life?My advice would be to find work outside of the home, not first find a lover. But, what do I know.
In the scene after the bar fight, Grace basically told Neil that their marriage was in trouble. She begged him for his attention (for a meal together, for a date). She offered to "fool around". And Neil was unable to see how fragile their marriage was and act to start mending the fence. He was too concerned with his own issues, ie. work. This is not to condone Grace's decision the next day to start an affair. But it's that lack of communication, connection, and intimacy, that drives the majority of people to having an affair. All people need to feel self worth and its especially hard for women because of the expectations that our society places on them to support their families and spouses at the sacrifice of their own dreams. While we claim that we're a modern society, we're not all that different from other cultures throughout the world. I would also say that I sympathize with Neil. As I said before, in our society, many men are indoctrinated from day one that we have a responsibility to work hard for our family. And that's exactly what the majority of my friends, including myself, did and we justified the long hours away from our families by saying that we wanted to give our spouses and children a good life. This show woke me up again and reminded me that I have to work on my relationship every day and that I need to support my wife in her dreams. And like Neil, I haven't always done that.
If we were speaking reality, Grace could have resumed her career aspirations years before. She did not because of her own lack of motivation. Grace, from what we have seen, never really showed any interest in interacting with Neil's work environment. We have 2 people co-existing but not interacting. The lack of physical interaction with her husband was as much Grace's fault, as his. Personal gratification (sexual and emotional) are still as much a part of Grace's psyche, as they were prior to discovery. She will pursue them with whomever becomes the path of least resistance. If Neil wants physical intimacy with Grace, she will accommodate. Refusal would be an outward sign of some culpability. That is not in Grace's character. She was crying because of the embarrassment of discovery, not at the thought of what pain she caused Neil. Sex with Simon is still OK with her psyche, recall the daydream. It is easier to connect with him because she did him no harm. In her mind, she has nothing to be embarrassed or ashamed of in her dealings with Simon. She was up front. She can even forgive his failure to be completely open, since she believes that he did not want to disappoint or hurt her. As I believe, Grace is gone, mentally and soon physically. Simon will pursue, in order for there to be continuity of the storyline. I hope that there is no weird cliffhanger ending to the next episode. This is a good story without the theatrics. The story will continue and we will see what Grace is doing in Europe through either flashbacks, or brief snippets, during Neils' journey through life. I have not worked out how Grace can just abandon Anika at home. I suspect some deal with Stephanie, or some lie about telling her everything is alright, and she will be back in 6 months. Anika can't go with her, because the portion of Grace living in reality, knows her daughter won't forgive betrayal of Neil when they're abroad. Neil has to learn to openly communicate with his wife, once he does, all is well. If she accepts the communication, the relationship heals, if she spurns it, the marriage is over and they move on.This series has generated too many questions for it to end now.
If she continues with Simon, it has to be behind Neil's back, because I do not believe he'll put up with her and Simon together in Milan.
Absolutely not. I may be giving Grace way to much credit, but I don't see her entertaining anything from Simon any longer, if her and Neil agree to try and fix things. Her going to Milan with Neils support, would be a big deal for her, given the trust Neil would place in her, let alone his support of her pursuing her dream. If she were to pull something shady like that, my new name for her, that's not too graphic, would be Lee Ann. Reckless fans will get reference.
Grace should have done what she did when Neil quit his Job. She went down to his office to see what was going on. She was then waiting with his boss at the house when he came home. After the bar fight when she was trying to tell him but looked like she was ranting. When she got up and read Neils note that he was working late, instead of bicycling to Simons she should have went to his office walked in sat down and said. I'm sober now. We have a problem with our marriage. We take each other for granted. We need counceling. I don't know how much more of this I can take, now what do you want to do about it. But she didn't, she cheated premeditated. She talks to Simon about Neil being checked out of the marriage. She talks to Dylan about he turn ons. She talks to Adrana. To everyone but Neil. Heck so far she even has trouble opening up to her sister. That's what she should have done.
Well, let's see. ....not commit adultery. And not for over 6 months. Really convenient to suggest theripst, after you've been caught. As for Neil not knowing that she knows, I believe Neil may have figured it out between the suitcase and her crying, saying she's sorry but she can't. He is wanting her to admit it first, but like you said, she probably won't.
But Neil doesn't know that Grace knows that he knows! Whew. Therefore, Neil thinks he's in control. Neil thinks that all Grace has to do is admit her affair and everything will be better. He feels in control of the potential rebuilding of their marriage. Did you notice how completely pleased he was when Grace suggested a therapist? I agree that Grace just wants to run. She's not going to admit her unfaithful actions directly to Neil since she knows he already knows and she's too emotionally involved with Simon to even fully admit she's done anything she regrets (except getting caught). I'm sure Grace doesn't feel in control of anything, other than that she can just bow out and go to Italy.
Grace has always, from the moment they met, been in control. Whether she chose to exert it is questionable. We only have evidence of one moment where she exercised that influence. That was in the purchase of their home. Neil got his reward "best sex". Grace loves that home, even her daydream with Simon, occurs in that house. The house represents to her what the pool does to Neil.
Well written piece of journalism there! Hit the nail right on the head. Such a great show, glad it's been picked up for a third season.
Thank you for the compliment. Very kind. This season has been so stellar I cannot even imagine what Season 3 might hold. Too bad we have to wait a year!
Clara was shattered in time once, I wonder if she the creature under the bed for every one? that its a residue of her or her future?
Opie :'((also, forever upset that Marissa from The OC died, but that may be a bit too 'teen drama' and lame for some)(AND JEN LINDLEY FROM DAWSONS. NOT FAIR. NOPE. The writers gave us the Joey and Pacey ending BUT TOOK AWAY JEN. Never gonna get over that)Stabler and Casey Novak!! COME BAACK. And Huang :'( and TARU Ruben! #rememberforever.Alison Argent, wow :( and with her, Isaac :( DOUBLE SADNESS.
Dean and Jo weren't the best match. Jo didn't sacrifice herself. Once again she stupidly disobeyed orders and got herself into trouble that this time got her killed and Ellen sacrificed herself because someone had to open the door and then trigger the bomb that was supposed to allow the guys to get to Lucifer. Seeing as Jo was dead she wasn't the one and even if she was alive she wasn't able to move to let the bad guys in or trigger the bomb. Pam Barnes was the best choice for a love interest as she knew what she was doing and didn't ignore people by trying to play hero instead of using common sense. Actually Madison was already a werewolf. Sam left Amelia after her husband returned. Sam and Amelia were shown in bed meaning Amelia chose Sam and he is shown in 8x01 leaving her. Sarah Blake was the best choice for Sam unfortunately Carver killed her off while he destroyed the character of Sam.
Actally Madison was already a werewolf. Sam left Amelia after her husband returned Sam and Amelia are shown in bed meaning se chose Sam and he left her,
Shapeshifters were introduced in Season 1 ep Skin.
Since everyone has gone quiet, I thought I'd air some of my thoughts about Grace and Neil and see if it will stimulate the conversation. I can't understand the great degree of hostility that I see being heaped on Grace in the Satisfaction USA twitter account. I believe that Grace does love Neil and in the long run does not want a divorce. In the pilot, after the visit by Neil's boss, Grace asked Neil if they were going to work out. She expressed her fear that she didn't know what was happening to them, and then they embraced. In that moment, I could tell that she still loved Neil. In the 9th episode, when Grace first arrived home, and was in a panic, and started thinking back about the things that Neil had recently told her about supporting her dreams, I found it very telling that she thought about her sexual encounter with Neil in the restroom. She did think about Simon telling her that she had an out but her thoughts were primarily about her connection with Neil, not her connection with Simon. While she was planning to pack and leave, it wasn't to run to Simon, but to run away from Neil because she was ashamed of how she had been behaving while he was trying to re-connect with her. I think one of the other posters said that Grace is the type who runs away from confrontation. I know people who behave the same way. Rather than face an unpleasant confrontation, they leave to avoid it. In the end, Grace suggests seeing a therapist and I think she does so because she loves Neil and Anika (and she just told Anika that they weren't getting a divorce). I'm saddened by comments in other sites that castigate Grace and call her terrible names. If a man does the same thing, we usually just laugh it off and say that he's having a mid-life crises. But if a woman does it, she's a whore. How sexist is that. In the 21st century, you hope that we would be evolving and moving past such sexist views. But the more we change, the less we change. Anyway, I feel for Grace and Neil. They're both flawed and both need to grow so that they can strengthen their marriage. In the season finale, I think that Grace will take the fellowship to Italy because she needs to grow in order for their marriage to survive. Neil will support her decision because he knows that she has to follow her dreams if they are to have any chance to move forward. Sometimes, if you love someone more than yourself, you have to be willing to let them go because sometimes that's the only way to express the depth of your love and trust. The question "Would you risk your marriage in order to save it?" is a complex one. I think Neil and Grace can only save their marriage if they risk it. And I'm not implying that they need to seek extra-marital affairs. What I am saying is that they need to do things that will not be easy because they both need answers to the question "What do you do if you have everything but it's not enough?" The real question is what will the writers do in order to leave us with a cliffhanger. It has to be something explosive since they've been building to it. Finally, I want to say that I enjoy Anika and Mateo's storyline. Anika's role in this series is to serve as the conscience for all of the other characters. Her choices reflect how we should live our lives. Her music is haunting and makes me nervous for Neil and Grace at this point in the story. Whew. Sorry about the long post but this show has really touched me because I can relate to Grace and Neil's problems. Hope there is a second and third season so that we can see a final happy ending.
Your correct. However this has been a long running discussion. Carissa thinks that both Neil and Grace are equally wrong. Most feel Grace is just slightly more at fault. Reasoning is she premeditated seeking out Simon after her bar fight. She consciously knew what she was doing and did it. Don't forget when she asked Neil if they were going to be Ok the first time, she was fooling around with Simon for 6 months. Where was her concern before then. The other difference is she's been thinking about her needs. Neil is at least thinking about her in his stupid attempt to save the marriage. Stephanie Swozak stated she knew before shooting started Grace was going to be an un likable character and she loved playing that kind of role. No matter how it is spun. Grace started the ball in motion by doing a betrayal.
Wow guys, the three last comments, not counting mine ,have really summed up exactly how I see Grace and Neil at this point. It's fun that 4 different people, can agree on this, with out name calling. So now we're down to the final episode, and maybe the show, so most everything else is just speculation. I wanted to ask about the sex going forward. I may be giving Grace more credit then she deserves, but don't you think, now that Grace knows that Neil knows, that any kind of sexual encounter, at least for a little while, would be real uncomfortable for Grace, including sex with Neil? And do you guys see Grace really wanting anything more to do with Simon or any other man ,besides Neil, if she truly wants to save the marriage.
Especially sex with Neil! Grace would leave the house rather than risk being in bed with Neil who knows about her infidelity with Simon. She could still run to Simon since he's been her emotional and physical outlet for months, but I bet she'd go to her sister and swear off men for at least a month. Dylan has definitely been out of the picture since Simon told Grace about Neil's knowing about her unfaithfulness. Starting up again with Simon or Dylan must await another season. Right now sex is off the table. Gathering all the emotional strings into a bow is the only thing left for the finale.
If she runs to Simon the marriage is over. Neil still thinks her relationship is a pay for play hookup. If she goes to him, he'll realize its emotional and now it's a stab in the heart big time. Everything will fall apart. Grace cannot cheat anymore, unless there is a legal separation.
I agree, but I don't think a legal separation means anything to Grace; an emotional and physical separation from Neil is all that would matter.
My criticisms of Grace have been harsh at times, not that I don't like her as a person, but because of the singularity of her focus (herself). She's mad at Neil for the discovery of her betrayal and his lack of confrontation of it to her. She is not angry at her own failure as a spouse. Neil, on the other hand, wanted to understand why and what his failures contributed. A focus on saving the relationship first. Grace, until the exchange with Anika, had no cereberal exchange about saving the marriage. She was going to run, rather than confront her failures. Even the therapist suggestion, is at some level, a momentary distraction from self admission of culpability. As I mentioned earlier Grace has to run, it is her nature. Her connection with Simon has not run it's course. At somepoint, during her european fellowship, they will reconnect and that relationship will have to run it's course. If Grace takes up another relationship (such as Dylan), Neil would be best served to start a real reciprocal affair with another woman. Adriana, I do not believe, is the individual for that purpose. He needs to reconnect with the passion in his own soul. The reconnection of this marriage has got to be driven by Grace. Neil is open and willing to confront his failures, including infidelities. Only when Grace has seen her own culpability and is willing to openly admit them, does this marriage have a chance of survival. I hope they make it. I look forward to seeing how the writers and their advice experts handle the issues.
Excellent comment. I agree with just about everything you said. My resentment of Grace, is mainly due to the fact that she's the one that started the sexual affair, now emotional also, long before Neils escort date. I also think her going to Milan is a great idea, for both her career, and self worth, plus possibly for the marriage. The biggest issue there would be trust. While I think Neil would support her going; there clearly would be a trust issue. That's what I felt her fantasy was a metaphor about. If Simon, Dylan or Adriana, are involved in any way, and she doesn't rebuff their advances, then I fear everything negative things you been reading about Grace, may be true. But once again, this all depends on if there's a second season.
I almost unwilling watched Znation and have to believe this is more tongue in rotting cheek then not. If not... Uh might not have a long life. I was shocked they killed off the lead black guy almost immediately... To me, the most striking thing, besides about a hundred dead people before the opening credits, was the sheer speed of the zombies. No shambling here!!! I felt bad, but i found baby zombie FTW hilarious. I guess SST nose radio announcer lost his deputy job... Anyway, although zombies have never fully been my cup of tea, might have to give this a shot.
Hmm, my friend had any interesting theory, Arliss shot Dec and Leann was calling Jaime to defend him, using her blackmail item against Jaime to make her defend Arliss
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