I thought this was a good episode. However, I just finished reading an article online that the Mentalist will more than likely not be renewed by CBS because of ratings decline. It said the first 3 years had great numbers but started to decline after that. I certainly agree that I enjoyed the 1st 3 years better than 4-6. I believe all the RJ junk just killed the ratings and Jane's character turned to the dark and troubled side. The writers quit adding humor in each episode to lighten it up a little and it just went downhill. I still love Jane, Lisbon and Cho and hope it will make it for season 7. If they separate Jane and Lisbon it will definitely not make it. Put money on it.
I agree if they separate Jane and Lisbon the show won't last. I don't agree that the show lost humor in seasons 4-6. I think one of the main reasons the ratings went down is because CBS moved it to Sunday nights at 10 which made it get moved back many times due to sports. I hope there is a season 7 and more too.
I agree with C+P, I didn't find the episodes of later seasons any less humorous. In fact just looking at the Pilot episode, it didn't exactly have me in stitches. They've maintained about the same level of humor in all the seasons. I think some people's memories are a bit clouded because of the very serious series of Red John episodes to finish season five and to start season six. In all the previous five seasons they never had more than a couple of Red John episodes in a row. They were usually spaced out between the more common stand-alone episodes.
After how "How I Met Your Mother" ended there is no way i'm watching a single episode of this show. I hope it gets cancelled really fast.
I agree!! what is the point when she dies and they only had 6 years with only one year i think of marriage
This article is very useful information for me.
There is a list commenting on this years finales, 22 I think, on tvline.com. Very interesting comments about the episodes leading up to and including the finale, whether it be seasonal or final. These comments are from a producer.
He says the finale will have a lot to do with Patrick and Lisbon. I also saw a piece about chances for renewal for several shows. It said 1:12
For the Mentalist. I take it that means the odds are one out of twelve it will be renewed? Well, that makes my stomach turn over!
I wonder if there is any other show on TV that has the true, steadfast fandom this show has had? A lot of people have put a lot of thought regarding this show and expressed it well on this site. I don't look forward to a time when The Mentalist isn't around any longer. Obviously all things have to come to an end, just as we all do, but I'm hoping hard it won't be this year. As I'm typing this I'm trying to imagine what the cast and crew are feeling. Must be a rough time for them, wondering if "will we or won't we". Only time will till tell, but the wait is the pits!
The May sweeps are there to showcase TV shows and get the highest ratings possible for more ad revenue. If a show is being cancelled there is no point in working on boosting the ratings. Only a renewed show would get the promos and teasers to attract maximum viewers. If CBS is canceling TM it will be obvious very quickly. OTOH if Warners is taking TM to another network, they might do something to attract viewers to build a foundation for that move. If we don't see any significant sign of finale promotion, I'd guess it means we are done with TM. I'll have the videos and give them an excellent review on amazon.com to let people know that the show improves with every playback because we see things we missed before - all those great little subtle bits of creative acting and nuanced story telling. But sadly no chat group, and this one has been so interesting! Is there a DVD TM chat group out there? A good thoughtful Simon Baker chat group?
I have found it difficult to locate good discussion about TM. This place is the most mature and in depth I have managed to find.
I value the people who post on here, so many well thought out posts and good willed discussions.
Note it says renewed which implies only CBS. No stats on the chances of it moving to a new station, so dont give up hope yet, they are ignoring that option.
There is still chance a lot of this is spin to get the audience talking and publicity for free for the show & CBS
The mentalist is soo great and deserve a 7 season! The best show ;)
It's always nice to see the tender Klaus .
And yes this show definitely needs more females characters and yet they keep killing them , first sophie and now Eve ,I really liked her ( they could take her to a hospital tho ) .
I missed Davina this episode .
Now that we seem to have (some of us at least) established Jane as a total dirtbag, we could take look at a few mitigating aspects of his character. The whole outline for it was drawn in the pilot.
He is a man with his own values system, partly based perhaps on being born and raised in a traveling carnival that by its nature set up its own values for the nomadic way they lived. A world that included people who only provided a lot of fun along with others engaged in more exploitive stuff - the psychics and con artists who saw everyone outside the carney world as marks.
Jane had an inherent streak of decency that he found he had to ignore at times to get along in his world. For the most part he seemed able to avoid outright harmful exploitation. We saw him gull people into thinking he has contacted a dead loved one whom they could once again connect with. They gave him money - lots of money for this because what he did made them happy. Was this wrong? Lisbon re Conor's mother: "But you gave her hope." Jane: "I sold her hope." But Conor's mother thanked Jane for that hope even after she realized it was false hope. As Jane described it at one time: "False hope, but hope nonetheless."
So how"evil" was this providing of false hope? Mostly it made people feel good, although in a few cases it led to people doing terrible destructive things because of what Jane told them in his cold reading fishing for something that sounded truthful to say. When you think about it, this is something of a customized version of what some religions do on a much broader scale. Hope is what keeps people going and Jane provided that.
Jane seems to have a solid sense of justice, however based it is on his carney upbringing with its own set of - or lack of - boundaries. In the pilot he made himself at home in a stranger's house, helping himself to a sandwich. Was he thinking this was OK because he was there to help and so he had a right to be there? And how did he help? He helped the woman see that her husband was the one who murdered their daughter, and seeing that, she took a gun and killed him. Later, Lisbon called him out for that, saying he got a guy killed. Jane dismissed that as of no account because the guy killed his daughter because she refused to have sex with him. Justice was served very well in Jane's view. He asked what the difference was between justice and revenge. For Jane, there was no difference between the government executing Red John and him doing it, and he believed he had the greater need and right to do it - literally for his own sanity. It takes extreme emotional trauma to put a man in a mental hospital for the better part of a year, suicidal and in a locked room. How do you judge the actions a person takes to end that kind of pain? Jane has never recovered even now. If he had he would not still be wearing his wedding ring. It stays on, even as he sees Lisbon, his only emotional anchor for the past dozen or more years, moving away from him because he has no way in his state of mind to stop her. His obsession with Red John kept him from seeing how hurtful some of his actions were for Lisbon and others who got close to him. Red John did a lot of damage to Jane and he is far from recovered.
How about the innocent people who died because of Jane's obsession? They would have lived if Jane had not been pursuing Red John. But, really, is that Jane's fault? The FBI and CBI were pursuing Red John too. The FBI got Jane involved precisely because they saw his talents and realized he could be an outside-the-box asset to finding Red John. They basically put him in charge of the hunt. And what about other criminals? In some episodes people who were needed to find and convict the case-of-the-week bad guy were killed to keep them from talking. Were the police responsible for that because they were hunting the bad guy? Bad guys are responsible for killing those who could bring about their arrest, not the people trying to arrest them.
Yes, Jane has a history of being a hustler: "I'm a con artist; I steal from people." But he doesn't do that any more. Beyond the psychological damage Red John did to Jane, he also unintentionally taught him to live by better values than the pursuit of fame and fortune. What it will take for Jane to recover from the psychological damage remains to be seen. And that is what TM is all about. The rest is details. There are many stories yet to be told, and if we get a S7 we may hear them. Our dirtbag's essentially lovable characteristics will prevail.
Super counter arguments Rational :-) Got to admire him for surviving the whole Red John experience and coming out of it relatively sane, more than most people could have.
There have been some really good discussions on here today. However we see faults (or good things) in Jane he still wins as we all like him anyway or would not be watching the show.
And I still think he deserves to get the girl ;-)
“How about the innocent people who died because of Jane's obsession? They would have lived if Jane had not been pursuing Red John. But, really, is that Jane's fault? The FBI and CBI were pursuing Red John too.”
Ah, but the CBI and FBI are law enforcement; that is their job. It is not personal for them. Red John (and any criminal) always knows they will be looking for them. For Jane, a victim, this was completely personal. He made it personal. That is the difference between the government seeking justice and personal vengeance. When the government executes a criminal, they are not acting solely on the idea of punishment, but also on what is best to protect society as a whole. When a person (including Jane) is seeking revenge, he is not acting on behalf of what is best for society but on what he sees as payback for the wrong caused him by that criminal. Too often, innocent bystanders get sacrificed in the quest for revenge. That is why vigilantism is illegal. Jane rarely ever stopped to consider the ramifications of his actions in his pursuit of vengeance, not for his colleagues nor for any outsiders. And the few times he did ponder the thought, it ultimately never deterred him. He was always going to get what he wanted, and if there was collateral damage…oh well. He got his man, and that’s all that mattered.
P.S., “Hope” , especially false hope, can be given free of charge. You don’t have to charge an arm and a leg for it. That’s called greed.
Well, I'm trying to analyze Patrick Jane as a human being brought up in certain circumstances that shaped his behavior. If he is truly a dirtbag with no redeeming qualities or way to explain his behavior, then he could not have cared about his family's murder. The human sensibilities were not there. He could not have suffered trauma so severe he became mentally ill and still carries the effects. He could not have the deep love of children we've seen over and over. He would not have brought RJ back into the open after the Carter killing to prevent the murder of another young girl. On Blinking Red Light, he would not have had that crisis of conscience on the TV set as he struggled with whether he should send Panzer to his death and bring RJ out into the open. But he had to keep another young girl from being killed and he was the only one able to do it. A true dirtbag would not have cared.
Dirtbags don't have feelings like that. They don't feel guilt for past regrettable behaviors because the never regret. I suppose a TV series could be made based on that kind of character but it would not be TM. Too many signs of Jane being a human with complex human sensibilities for the plot to work out. Jane is the most 3 dimensional character I've ever seen on TV. A mix of good and bad human qualities. Basically a guy who wants to do the right thing but is pulled and pushed by the circumstances of his life so that he falters at times but he seems to be working on the project. I rather like his value system overall. It tends to be reality based, not blind rule based. He's a good man, though emotional damaged. An honest man, but not perfect. Is anyone? There are no red flags up over Jane. We have always known who he is and, more importantly, why.
Comment modified at April 24, 2014 00:06
No one has said Jane is not capable of love. Members of the mafia can order a hit on someone then turn right around and tuck their children into bed at night. They are capable of doing the right thing at times, as long as it serves their interests or, at the very least, does not harm them.
Getting Red John to kill Panzer in the end was a non-issue. Agent Darcy was already on to the possibility that Carter was not Red John, and Red John would have started killing again anyway if Jane continued his pursuit.
I haven't called Jane a dirtbag. I'm just saying the guy is naturally a sociopath, but there are sociopaths among us throughout society who are successful and productive citizens. But on a personal level, that is something Lisbon would be wise not to get too entangled with because it is difficult to ever truly trust them.
Also, explaining Jane's behavior is fine. Excusing it is all together something different. Prisons are full of people who had equally traumatic and tragic upbringings. Your past does not absolve you of the decisions you make or the consequences thereof.
The problem I have with Jane is that he has certainly had more than his fair share of opportunity and support from others to try an amend some of his less than admirable qualities and has shown little to no inclination to do so.
He does have a lot of redeeming qualities. He can be very unreasonable and a pain. But I think he is also kind very often to others he sees as vunerable and that counts for a lot. He tried really hard to help Wayne and Grace get together, so we know he is a romantic as he gained noting personally from helping them.
I pondered today and felt I had been too harsh on him yesterday - partly I think because of him reminding me now and again of a real pain in the neck colleague in real life, and that was not overly fair of me - to Jane that is, not to the guy I worked with!
I think he would make Lisbon happy. I think he would spoil her in a nice way quite often, even if he was hard work at times. I think both of them deserve to be happy - lets face it neither of them are easy people - she is not great socially and nit picks with guys obsessively. Who stops dating cos someone bites their nails...! Thats like half the population excluded right off its such a frequent habit.
My vote is NON dirtbag. Issues, yes. Big issues. Lovable, yes! Do I want to fix him? YES. From the beginning my heart would ache when he was suffering emotionally. (What an actor.)
It's possible that now that his nemesis is planted, and there is no need for the pathos layered over the gaiety, some people are viewing him as an arrogant jerk. I'm hoping to see another season, with time taken to dig into the mind of PJ. Wouldn't you love to watch a round table discussion moderated by SBaker. It could include BHeller, writers, producers and a bevy of us faithful fans to watch the whole thing. Better yet, a nice long interview with Baker's thoughts on how he played the character.
Comment modified at April 23, 2014 22:12
"some people are viewing him as an arrogant jerk" Perhaps we were meant to?
Cho was unhappy with his 'returned' behaviour and said he was crazy like the first days.
Maybe we are supposed to notice him re-stabalize after being away and we are supposed to see the wilder side regress once he is back with Lisbon and Cho instead of alone with no roots. To see they help support him in being a better person than he can be alone. A return from being lost again.
My rethink on some of what I put yesterday about Jane is further down the replies to your post. I think I was overly harsh.
Please bring bck Ziva David, NCIS is not the same without her.
so who was Oliver working with??
I don't think we know who he was working with. The guy on the motorcycle appeared compelled with indicates a camp is involved and it also appeared like he was looking for Elijah specifically before detonating the first bomb. Oliver is too dumb to pull this off by himself. I wonder who he's in cahoots with too. Time will tell I suppose.
1. Cora or Eva?
Cora for sure! I mean I felt for Cora and the things she went through. She was looking for some security but it was her mistake. I think Leopold could look over the fact Zelena wasn't his daughter and accept her. But it's not the bad thing that makes U evil it's the choice to lie and trick the people you care about. Once more Kudos to Rose! I love to hate her.
2.Regina or Evil Queen?
Regina for sure. She kep her humor but has the ability to see things right. The young Regina who put all the bullying and additional hate into Her Revenge towards Snow is gone. You can't erase what happened to her but she embrassed it and evolved from hat point.
3.Zelena go back in time?
I don't see it happening, I would love for her to bring young Cora to present time. But the only way I could see time travel happen is for our crew to meet the brothers Grimm in who knows what century and tell them the fairytales.
I came to a place where I really like Zelena, but Rumple doesn't like Zelena she was a tool for a goal.
5. Favorite scene.
Outlaw Kiss and all flashback scenes.
RM has it exactly right. Nothing seems to happen unless and until Red double crosses the criminals in the end and spoon feeds these FBI morons as to either where they are or who to talk to in order to find them. Outside of Red, Mr. Kaplan, and Red's bodyguards (why did they kill the Asian beauty?) and the villians, I hate every other single character in this show, from the arrogant and buffoonish Cooper, (can't put a black man in charge of anything important; the power goes to his head and he is incapable of handling the responsibility) the terminally stupid Ressler, the boneheaded, petulant, childlike Lizzie, and all the other third rate morons (especially the insufferable, and idiotic C.I.A. chick) whose names aren't worth remembering. Although the scripts are well written, the show itself has turned into somewhat of a farce now. An FBI counter-terrorism unit that can't think beyond the next bathroom break, a rogue criminal agent who owns a private jet and goes anywhere he wants no questions asked, and a female lead character who can't see the obvious even if it slaps her in the face. I think this show has run out of steam. Time to reboot by killing off Lizzie and Ressler. That would be an excellent start...............
I like Ressler, but would love to have Lizzie gone. She is an idiot!
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