Audrey coming back the way she did really redefines the term 'being your own person'.
At last! Two episodes that sort of made up for the dreck of the beginning. I agree that Lucas really did an excellent job when he got good writing. Yeah agent Howard s getting tied into the mythos again. And Nathan and Audrey's boy - let's hope somehow he has survived. Plus they managed to layer in the time-break with the thinnies.
Thank God, Mara pooped out Audrey Parker. Hopefully "Haven" will flush the toilet that is filled with the previous five episodes (and a lot of last season) and continue on the upswing that this latest episode provided. I actually enjoyed this episode a lot, but I'm wary of being too hopeful - the show has hurt me before and it could hurt me again. There's so much they could do right at this point - but so much they could do wrong. The show has been great, then it's been awful in spite of great storytelling potential. Last season it just felt like they'd put a drunk driver at the wheel - sometimes they drove between the lines, often they were skidding off the guardrails. Here's hoping they've driven long enough that they've finally sobered up.
Comment modified at October 18, 2014 17:00
Didn't see that coming
Hi everyone, I am going to throw my 2 cents in after Carissa's review of episode 2. I have already had an opportunity to see it, and do not want to make comments which would give away parts of the plot. However, there are some issues which are interesting to bring up based on the first episode. How much time has elapsed since the affair began. Do we think it's over. Are all the main characters still married to their original spouses? Or do we think as my wife has mentioned to me, that Cole is deceased. Allison now has a child. Was she pregnant during the start of the affair. Was the affair over just one summer vacation?
Simon 2: There have been so many emotional twists and turns in this series, that it's hard to concentrate on one character. After much thought I've decided that the word that best describes my feelings about Simon is "immaturity". The real question for me is whether Simon's bad behavior is a permanent part of his adult life, or whether his own upbringing (like mine) simply stunted him until he could find his own values. Jablonski initially presents Simon as physically attractive to Grace, who becomes sexually attracted to him, which leads to a fling, which leads to an affair, which leads to love (use whatever description you wish). By the time 6 months have passed, they've settled into a comfortable, woman and lover arrangement of exciting liaisons at properties at her disposal, and at his place. When Neil corners Simon, Simon tries to explain that he's just a paid sexual surrogate. Soon after, he knows Neil has not confronted Grace since Grace still wants to meet him. Simon realizes that he is developing feelings for Grace, and even when she tries to break it off she responds to his kisses every time. Season 1 basically has Simon and Grace falling in love, with Simon being somewhat behind her. Simon knows Grace better than Neil in many ways, and he knows this. Grace never says she doesn't want to be with him, even when she knows Neil knows of her affair. Simon believes he has a chance to pull her away from Neil with the only objection he perceives from Grace being his profession. He will give that up; he has a plan B.By the end of season 1 we are seeing a new Simon. Sure he's amoral, but John F. Kennedy was far more amoral, and he was still a good President. He's selfish but everyone is selfish. He's very much like an immature person who want's what he wants and nothing else matters. But a child can be taught. Can Simon?My wife tells me that two very powerful aphrodisiacs for a woman are power and money, not necessarily in that order. That's how Kennedy seduced so many women: he had both. I'll explain a possible scenario for Simon and Grace in season 2, fully realizing that no one can read the mind of Jablonski.
I look forward to you continuing this line of reasoning. You are methodically going where I believe season 2 will take us. I believe that the well healed Simon will be almost too much for Grace to resist. Simon's true background and family wealth may be enough for Grace to temporarily drop Neil and possibly her family. Grace is impressed by power and wealth (Adriana), Simon possessing the same may be too much for her to give up. If Grace temporarily separates from Neil, I hope that he kicks her out of the house, and presents her with divorce papers based on adultery. I believe that anything less than this will be insufficient to shock Grace.s
Honestly, if season 2 shows a Grace that far gone, I won't be watching. I am hoping we discover the Neil did something equal in nature over the last 20 years to put Grace in a better light. If this is just another "make the woman look like a heel" series, I'm out.
No worries.Grace will do something to keep you in her corner.
Just sex? You are taking cavalier approach to the problem. Women tend to think that a sexual affair is more forgivable than a sexual one. Men tend to think the reverse. It may be just sex to you and Grace, but it is probably not to Neil. I would hate to be caught in an affair and try to tell my wife it was just sex.. You are apparently living in the post-modern world. I haven't made it that far.
Carissa, why do we have to presume that Neil is a heel. Neil is just a good looking, hard working schmuck, who took his wife gradually more and more for granted. His wife, who had probably submerged much of her personality for years, reverted back to a semblance of the woman of her youth. In that capacity, she consciously cheated on her husband, and that affair morphed into a relationship that threatens her marriage. There is no need to make Neil a culprit, in an action which is totally of Grace's doing. The question, given what we have seen of Grace's obvious attraction to Simon, is simply: Does a 20 year loving relationship trump a six month passionate and self liberating affair? Grace has controlled the outcome of this scenario from the start. She has carefully cultivated the relationship with Simon to fit her lifestyle and schedule. She really did not worry about any possible consequences, because her husbands' work focus precluded discovery of her infidelities. In fact, the discovery of her treachery, was accidental to Neil suffering a work epiphany. Grace is not the woman who has been living with Neil for the past 20 years. She is the woman who would have developed had she not married. She is confident and independent, and to be honest, is an individual primarily loyal only to herself. Grace wants her cake and also to eat it also. Who among us does not? Grace will continue in the same path she has been going, until something occurs to rattle her cage. In could be some issue with Anika, or an event or circumstance which threatens her in a profound fashion. It will take something really big, to alter her current path toward destruction of her marriage. Neil is stuck. He is afraid to confront Grace, remembering the outcome of honesty in light of Mateo's parents. He also knows he can't compete with Simon in the newness, and passion aspects. His strong points are a history of love and caring, and joint memories of family life. Grace has discounted those, and as is apparent from her daydream (Mateo's parents night), she is consciously contemplating what life would be like with Simon. She is frightened somewhat over the fear of the unknown, but she has been quietly scattering the seeds of destruction of her marriage. She went to the psychologist under the premise of trying to save her marriage, but she did not irrevocably terminate her relationship to her lover. She has shown no evidence of contrition, which you would expect from a person willing to correct for her mistakes. The reason for this is simple. Grace does not regard the affair with Simon as a mistake, it is Neil's fault in her line of thought.
Comment modified at October 19, 2014 07:00
They don't have to do it at all. But I'd like it to be a bit more even from a viewing standpoint. It's not fun for me (and this is just about me) to write about something where half of the main cast is despised like Grace is. I try to objectively look at the characters and then subjectively state opinions on them. I find my ability to do that more difficult when a show is lopsided. That said, I am still not with you on all of this careful calculation from Grace. She was just rolling with it because it felt good. I don't necessarily think she was in her right mind.. it was a fantasy that just so happened to play out in real life. She was swept up in the moment. The full blown relationship between Grace and Simon? I don't see it. It was sex. Fun sex, granted, but sex. And a bit of therapeutic chatting thrown in. Anyway. Sorry to interrupt. I know I just throw a kink into everyone's happy time. :-)
Are you kidding me, you are an important reality check for us guys. I don't despise any of the characters. Simon in particular. I relate to him in a profound fashion. I know Simon, I lived in a frat. house with dozens of his clones. I played football with his clones. He is not a maleficent individual, he is doing what comes easily and is fun. He is now caught up with his life competing with another persons familial happiness (Neil). He did not ask to fall for Grace, but shit happens, and you act accordingly. He has options available, and lets' see how he uses them. Adriana is not evil, she is all in for Adriana. She cares for Neil. I really mean has good feelings for, cares. She understands Neil's dilemma. Neil is a guy hanging over an abyss, created by his wife's infidelity. He doesn't know what to do, so he tries escorting in order find out what the appeal is. Adriana takes advantage of this because she is attracted to Neil. She personally isn't trying to destroy his marriage. She could do so immediately by telling Grace what she knows. She is trying to create a little turmoil, for her own good. She is using Simon for no good purpose, but then Simon is a willing pawn. Grace will eventually discover all of Neil's secrets. Will she have the intelligence and self reflection to understand, that all of Neil's transgressions are a direct result of her betrayal. I don't think so. Grace is so liberated and self confident, she has developed a Teflon conscience.
Adrianna doesn't ruin the marriage because she will then lose Neil. She wants Simon to destroy it. This way Neil will run to her. Plus she wants Neil because he can be profitable to her. She sees his business savy and wants that. Yes she likes him because she sleeps with Neil but not with Simon. Maybe grace is going to see in Neil what Adrianna sees.
I hope your talking about his business sense and not the escort services. That would present an interesting issue for Grace, seeing as she knows about Adriana and now Neil is working with her also on a professional level.
I agree with you on the sex thing. I haven't seen Grace In love with Simon. Women in love don't treat their lovers like she treats him. plus in her daydream it was all about her, no love gester towards Simon.
Grace admits to spending entire afternoons with Simon. These are not casual just for sex booty calls. Neil's escort dates were not of a nature which would result in a long term relationship. These were high level booty calls. Dinner, dancing, conversation, and sex. They were escort dates. Grace is spending an extended period of time with a singular individual, having that individual provide services which should solely exist within marriage. Simon is her confidante and sex partner. Her intimate responses to his kisses, portend to something greater than just sex. They may not be in a Brett - Scarlett love affair yet, but it is growing.
Hey guys, yeah I am still hanging around here. I have some time line questions for you guys, about season 1. I tend to obsessed over time and actions and even though I have almost the entire season saved, I would like to resist watching again until maybe just before second season. I missed when Grace admitted to spending entire afternoons with Simon. Can you tell me in what context that conversation happened? If I recall correctly, we only know of one other sexual meeting between Grace and Simon, aside from her fantasy, after Neil catches her at open house. Do I have that right? Has anyone figured out the time frame from Neils discovery of Grace and Simon, and the final episode? I got confused because at first I thought they were portrayed as being married for 18 years, and then it's suddenly 20 years. Good catch by, I believe Winter, on the parking ticket, and Neil not approaching Grace about it at the table. Really said something to me about Neil and his character. Have to agree with Sojourner about sex and marriage. I see it as the ultimate betrayal by either spouse, just once, or multiple times.
I brought up the parking ticket. Neil should have said, oh I see you got a parking ticket do you want me to pay it. Grace would have jodhpurs her pants. She would have realized she was in danger of getting caught and would have picked up on maybe Neil knowing sooner before Simon told her. It proved to me that Neil is in a compitition with Simon. A normal man would be going crazy knowing that she is still sleeping with him after he thought the affair was broken up. Him keeping quiet says volumes.
Thanks for the clarification on your comments. It's odd, but I actually felt a real disappointment in Neil when you brought this to my attention. The last thing I want to see is Neil looking at this as a competitive issue between the two of them.
Go back to the diner when Neil is telling Simon I can't see what she sees in you. Plus, you've got nothing to teach me, cuz financially Simons a mess. Then when Neil says good luck with the audit Simon gets pissed off. The compitition is on. If Simon loved Grace at that point he wouldn't have been so cavalier. Simon isn't in love with Grace he's out to destroy Neil's family cuz Neil screwed up his life.
Episode 10, the dirty shoes scenario. Grace tells the psychologist she knows how the shoes became dirty. She was just leaving a home she was showing, after spending the entire afternoon with Simon. You are correct, because of the way the narrative is being told, we have no way of knowing how often the two get together. It could be weekly, or less often. What we do know is that it has lasted at least 6 months. I don't understand why confronting Grace about the ticket, would have any affect on their relationship. Neither Neil nor Grace is prepared to examine the underlying issues. The ticket only indicates, that Grace had spent some time at Simon's apartment after the open house. Neil knows that they are getting together from the email messages.
But Grace would now know she can't hide her secret and is in danger of getting caught.
Thanks for the info. Now I am confused about E-mail. Didn't see those.
Your correct, but they are one way booty calls. What is she providing Simon? She's just taking. Is she buying him gifts? What nice things is she doing for him?
Carissa, I also do not think that Grace is the conniving person that a lot of people think she is but I'm just a silly romantic. I think yiu have her pegged right and at least that situation can be fixed. The other view that she wants to get the power and wealth is a bit too much and I don't think she will be swayed by Simon's wealth. She just wanted a good roll in the hay for pleasure and to feel wanted by a sexy man. Neil step up and take your wife back.
Remember, the office opening daydream, in which she admitted to having made a mistake. That admission was that the relationship had progressed too far. Grace then went to the psychologist. Grace knows that something is growing between her and Simon, and that it threatens her marriage.
It is Grace's fault that the pool drained, so I think it is pretty clear who's fault this whole mess is. :)
Carissa, see what your brief comments started You are very insightful and hopefully will continue to join in fray.
It would have been better if Grace went back to Simons that drunk night or they had sex in the bathroom. Or if the affair was spontaneous. But Grace went back home. She thought about cheating. She got on her bike. She took a long bike ride. She is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Neil on the other hand acted under temporary insanity(with Mallory). He became guilty the first and second times with Adrianna. Plus if Grace never cheated Neil never would have.
Your wife is correct. Women are attracted to self assured men
This season has been hard to watch. This episode gives me hope we'll get back on track with the things that made this show great to begin with. The mystery of Agent Howard is one I'm definitely intrigued by.
What about Agent Meera Malick, on the Black List? I can't believe they killed her off. What about Lily Bell on Hell on Wheels? What about all of the guys in red shirts, on Star Trek?
fuck the writers if they let Felicity sleep with Ray Palmer!! Felicity's character does not need that to let Oliver realize how important she is to him. Kind of an old fashioned here but the character is too pure to be written off as a bitch jumping on different beds because she can't get an actual relationship with the man she truly loves.
What? What am I missing here? How can you call yourself old fashioned and then assume Felicity would be sleeping with Ray? First of all, she took him up on his offer of a job. Second, if she goes on a date with him, good for her. She stood idly by while Oliver DID have sex with Sara and if he can't commit to her, Felicity deserves to go out and enjoy life a little. Nothing she has ever done shows she would jump into bed with anyone. Dating is a thing, a thing without sex.
I'm speaking about the writers having a tendency to make the female characters in this show bitches, Laurel in season 1, Sara in season 2.
That's not going to happen. She might be letting her crush on Oliver go for now, but she deserves to live. She just saw how quickly someone can die. I don't blame her one bit.
I certainly hope so...
Thanks for pointing that out, Carissa. But also, it's scary how many women are scared to death and horrified at our little Felicity Smoak potentially dating AND EVEN SLEEPING WITH another man when they have no issue with men doing it. I say let her sleep with him, I highly doubt she's a virgin. This way, we can weed out all of these antiquated minds that place different standards on women when dating, then men. Felicity doesn't need fans like that.
Good episode but I enjoyed the previous episodes more , probably because there wasn't Alaric saltzman in this episode . I loved Damon and Bonnie scenes so much , they're so funny .I am glad that finally Bonnie has her magic back ( this show need his witch ) .Last review I read in some of comments that Sara could be Damon and Bonnie's love child and when Sara said that what if one if her parents own the mansion and her mother lived her whole life in Mystic Falls , I couldn't think of any one except for Damon and Bonnie to be her parents , I hope they're not because that would be so weird .
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