Finn and Quinn AAAH
Someone day this on tumblr, you all should read it--because it sums up most of the things I have to say..and basically, it just makes sense.
Hello! Firstly, let me apologize for being a bit late on this message - but the Finn/Quinn/Rachel triangle always makes my brain work extra hard, and so I wanted some time to gather my thoughts before answering. Now, Quinn. I’m not sure I would agree with you that she brings out the worst in Finn. I think from an audience standpoint, it’s designed so that we are intended to root for Finn to choose Rachel. She represents Glee and embracing your inner loser, and so part of Finn’s arc is wanting him to stand up and choose those things. So within the show’s construct, the audience is meant to root for Finn to pick Rachel. (And please understand, I am not making any sort of statements about the validity or value of Finchel as a ship - but it’s undeniable based on the way that the show is constructed, the logical result of Finn’s arc is him choosing Glee and being a Gleek, and when framed in romantic aspects, that is manifested in him choosing Rachel. Or Kurt - Kinn shippers, make of that what you will.)Anyways, I don’t think that Quinn actually brings out the worst in Finn. I think that because we are intended to root for Finn’s Self-Acceptance as a Loser, we become suspicious of his character when he doubles back and wants Quinn. We see a potential falsehood in his development and say, “Oh, Quinn brought that out in him.” But frankly, within the narrative, there is little difference in the compassion and/or decency Finn has shown when he’s dating Quinn vs. Rachel. In fact, you could argue that Finn was the most stand-up guy he’s ever been during the F13, when he was dating Quinn. And you could argue that S2 has brought a lot of hypocrisy and unpleasant behavior out of Finn, when he was dating Rachel. And that’s not even taking into consideration the almost undeniable notion that he treated Quinn a hell of a lot better as a girlfriend than he did Rachel. Now, you can interpret that in whichever way you choose - whether it be in favor of Finn and Rachel’s relationship, or Finn and Quinn’s relationship, but it’s difficult to ignore the basic fact.So I think it’s not really fair to say that Quinn brings out the worst in Finn - because within the narrative, she doesn’t. But in the construction of the show and what we’re meant to expect from it as an audience, we have problems accepting his behavior in conjunction with Quinn.And, if you’ll allow me, I respectfully disagree that preggo!Quinn is the exception to the rule. I call bullshit on some crap storytelling given to Quinn this season - because her current character is not a quality character. The strength of a character is only as good as their development (in a drama, at least - comedy’s a different animal) and denying Quinn the development that arose from her pregnancy is denying her the chance to be a great character. So I choose to believe that the true Quinn is one that allows her to be a good character - in this case, that happens to overlap with the belief that she is a good person. I choose to like her as a good character, though, not necessarily as a good person. Does that make sense?It’s the writers’ job to make us understand their characters, regardless of whether or not we agree with their thoughts or actions. And in this whole Finn-Quinn scenario, we are being denied the chance to understand her and empathize with her, and as a result, like her. Finn, on the other hand, still gets to swoop into scenes with Rachel and tell her how great she is, and still saves some face. We may not understand that kid, but the writers do their best to make us like him - whether or not that works is a different story.Speaking of Finn, I agree with you that homeboy needs to make a choice. And I also agree with you that it’s difficult to see why he would want to be in a relationship with Quinn based on what the writers are giving us. But why do these reasons have to be driven by popularity? I would disagree that Quinn’s on the same “level” as Rachel right now, and even so, why should that factor into who he should pick? It’s Glee relying again on the dichotomy between “cool kid” and “loser” at the expense of real emotions.If you look past their representation onscreen, there’s plenty of reasons why Finn could want to be with Quinn again. She was his first girlfriend, and probably the first girl he loved - in whatever way he knew how. They were going to have a baby together. There have to be a lot of residual emotions from that scenario, emotions that could plausibly lead to a rekindling of their romance, for better or for worse. But none of these reasons are being manifested onscreen, and we’re left in the dark, remembering only that Quinn lied to Finn and Finn should choose Rachel because she represents Glee. Even considering the idea that Finn said he wants to be alone and is still pursuing Quinn, we should understand why he would want to be with Quinn in the first place. But we’re not. And that’s not because Quinn was a bitch to him or because she made his life hell - it’s because the writers are neglecting a basic storytelling principle of empathy. As for next week, I am devoting absolutely no brain power to trying to guess what’s going to happen, haha. Trying to anticipate what the Glee writers are going to do is like trying to play horseshoes when the target’s on another continent - there’s just no winning. I hope that Quinn and Rachel’s interactions are meaningful and not all about Finn, and I hope Rachel doesn’t get hurt. But who knows what will actually happen.Sorry this is so long! The whole scenario is just complicated and confusing, but hopefully this answers your questions.
now come on, how can you not love them?? hahaha
What a lot of Finchel fans seem to be forgetting in their hatred of the Fuinn relationship is that Finn and Quinn never got any closure. Finn found out that Puck was the father, was rightfully pissed off, and dumped Quinn, leaving them both with all sorts of un-resolved feelings. Simply put, the Fuinn relationship didn't originally end because they didn't care about each other, but rather because Finn had been betrayed.
Finn and Quinn need to happen now, or else Rachel was simply going to continue to be Finn's rebound girl. Perhaps in the end Fuinn will break up because Finn realizes he loves Rachel, or maybe he'll stay with Quinn, but at least now both Rachel and the viewers will really be able to know where Rachel stands in Finn's affections. Is she the one he really loves? Or did he just choose her because she's the anti-Quinn?
^ I agree with you Lenna. We all know their break-up wasn't an actual break-up.. it's very important that relationships have closures, or else--there will be left over feelings that will never go away. In some cases, like with Fuinn, i don't think either of them wanted to break-up in the first place, because they really loved each other. But with the obvious case, they had too. Now that they are back together, they as do us fans need to see where this goes. I have high hopes for them..
Okay, Ive sort of abandoned this thread but I feel the need to just say one more thing.
Lets forget that Quinn is a user, a fake, a cheating bitch. Lets forget that she just had a baby by Finns best friend, lets forget that she would have picked Sam if he hadnt dumped her on her ass. Lets forget all of that.
Lets instead think about the fact that the only things that Finn and Quinn have in common are that their names sort of rhyme and that they both have unhealthy obsessions with regaining their popularity.
How does this form a healthy relationship?
Rachel helps Finn to become a better person, she helps him be the person he wants to be instead of the person people expect him to be.
Finchel Forever <3 just sayin.
Well said to a tee. Now I'm glad that Rand F are apart for a while. They need to. Rachel to obtain and retain self confidence instead of relying on F. Finn obtain his sense of self and take ownership of his own desires to be true to who he is not popularity and all its perks.
"Lets instead think about the fact that the only things that Finn and Quinn have in common are that their names sort of rhyme and that they both have unhealthy obsessions with regaining their popularity."
Correction: They are also both in Glee club.
You said it Jade.
"Rachel helps Finn to become a better person, she helps him be the person he wants to be instead of the person people expect him to be."
Let's forget that she gave him an ultimatum on something that he wanted to do - Football or her. Let's forget that she bribed him with her body, let's forget that he didn't even listen to her when she was talking about something very serious - how she wants to bring up her CHILDREN - let's forget that he laughed at her and then made her feel cheap, let's forget that he let her believe he was a virgin even though she told him the truth, let's forget that because of that she actively went out of her way to hurt him in the worst way she could think of, let's forget that she chased a man she thought was going to have another woman's child, let's forget that the only thing they actually have in common is Glee club, let's forget that the worst that Rachel has been has been either in her persuit of, or when she was with, Finn, let's forget that being with her made her even more insecure with every episode, let's forget that he's hurt her so many times it's untrue, let's forget that she dropped him completely and shacked up five minutes later with another guy because Finn was a little confused about his feelings having just found out he wasn't a father and the girl that he was in love with was with another guy, let's forget that Finn isn't a big city boy and that Rachel dreams of New York City, let's forget that he barely listens to a word she says and when he does listen he barely understands her, let's forget that she controls him, let's forget that the only times when Finn actually has been a good guy around Rachel, have been when they're not involved romantically.
How about. We don't forget these things. Or the problems with Fuinn's relationship either.
How about, we accept that Glee couples in general have A LOT of issues, and that people tend to ship them for what they could be and not what they are. I love Fuinn, between their bad times, they had some wonderful moments where to me it was obvious that they cared and eventually loved each other... to me they understand one another and they're on similar journies of self-discovery and they could help one another with that. To me they can bring out the best in one another, have they always? No. But sorry that's life and relationships for you, sometimes it's sunshine and they bring out every good thing about you and sometimes they drive you crazy or bring out the worst. The superbowl episode is a good example of what they COULD be if given half a chance.
They have very similar outlooks on life, and I can imagine them having a life together beyond high school - something I can't imagine for Finchel.
They have a lot in common, they're both popular kids in Glee, they know what it feels like to go from top to bottom to top to bottom again, they get each other... as Finn said to Quinn "I know you!" They were together a long time before the pregnancy, I think they probably picked stuff up, and they clearly got along and could just be with each other and be happy even before the pregnancy (see them smiling and happy in Episode 2)
Now you might not like them. You might not care about any of that, or even see it even slightly the same way I do. You might see Finchel differently. But don't think that you can glorify Finchel's relationship over Fuinn's because frankly, it's no better on any level. Finchel has it's share of cheating, lies, manipulation etc just like Fuinn. So don't make out like they've always been good for each other where as Fuinn was always bad for each other. Or that they have loads in common and Fuinn doesn't. Because frankly, it's absolute rubbish.
Reply if you like, this was a one time post I made because one of my Fuinn friends asked me to check this thread out. I'm fed up with all this Fuinn's so toxic, Finchel's brilliant nonsense. Just felt like this point had to be made really.
Rini, how should I put this?! Um, you are fricken amazing! You couldn't convert a Finchel fan to a Fuinn fan any day! You are absolutely correct, and I back up your statement 100%.
Both Rachel and Quinn have had their fair share of mistakes in their relationship with Finn. But I think Finn treats Quinn better..