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The-vampire-diaries
2978 posts
Jtl
I'm sorry as a some what older adult on this forum I find it appalling that more people wouldn't be fans of Damon and Stefan finding that brotherly love they once had before they were turned. But instead they haven't learned a darn thing in there long lives and continue to fight over another girl thats tearing there family apart and there the only family they got. I'm sorry I'm a big family type of guy and I would never fight with my brothers over a girl. But the brothers aren't the only ones to blame here! We have a lead character who is suppose to be this good person and yet she continues to drive a wedge between two brothers instead of walking away. Her family is all dead except for Jeremy and nothing good has come from her relationship with both these men. Right now she's trying to save Stefan and her relationship with him even thought he's a mass murdered and he killed Jennas friend Andie! Damon ain't no saint either! He's done a bunch of horrible things and yes he's trying to make up for it. But he needs to do a lot more like actually apologizing to the people that are around him that help him protect Elena or some serious community service. But she loves these guys just like Katherine did which doesn't make her any better. Everything is Damon and Stefan but not one mention of Jenna, John, Isobel & her parents this season! You think if you find out Jeremy can see ghosts you'll mention if he seen any family members! No she needs Lexi to help with her mass murdering boyfriend. A good person wouldn't come in between family and two brothers shouldn't fight over a girl. I'm sorry I see nothing Epic about these relationships.
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Cizzi
1469 posts
Cizzi
This is what I think :(I mean sure I have preferences there but in all honesty I think the most logical ending is both brothers learning from there mistakes and moving forward TOGETHER.I really think they need each other and I'm just waiting for the day they realize it.(I also don't get what's so special about elena that they do be fighting over her but that's a different story lol)
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I find it funny on how this show seems to deliver an OPPOSITE message from the books.

 

In the books Stefan/Damon relationship is far from perfect.  Damon despised Stefan since birth, Father hated Damon, etc. The whole Katherine stuff did NOT help the situation and their bickering and overall hostility to each other made katherine run away from them, which led to them killing each other.

 

Book Elena is the person who actually forces them to work together and start patching up their relationship. When she gets turned and Brothers yet again try to kill each other she makes sure to stop it  and makes sure to manipulate them both slowly into reconciling, using even her own death as leverage(she makes them both promise to defend and help each other as she dies)

 

SE and DE is surely not something one would recomend, one being a mystical relationship forced by gods and destiny between vampire and a teenager girl, DE relationship a fullblown relationship between evil vampire and teenager girl.  However it is resolved and less unhealthy than TV SHOW DES, why? 

Human Teenager girl in love with two vamps lasts for total of two books, latter on becoming a love triangle between three vampires, with both story and author seemignly going for polygamious relationship Neither Damon nor Stef never have slept with her mother nor her ancestor. They have no direct connection to her family, considering Elena's family lived in USA and the whole salvatore squable took place in Italy. Elena is flawed human herself and does NOT try to change the brothers. She LIKES them different and she likes them for who they are. IT has way less tv-show-tvd angst. It has more of them three dealing with dangers(, interacting, developing as characters, etc, instead of endless hours of pointless tease that tvd-tv DES is.

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DES of TV Show is unhealthy because:

Damon raped and abused Caroline(Elena's friend) and Andie(jenna's friend) for weeks. Damon snapped Jeremy's neck in front of her and she was oh well with it. Damon BANGED most of her family. Steffan CHEWED on most of her ancestors. Both DE and SE is making D and S completely unstable maniacs and Elena into complete sociopathic cardboard. THe show has a completely opposite message from the books in terms of brothers and does not even realize it. SE comes off more like an obsessive unhealthy sick case of stockholm syndrome. but more on that latter. Elena's life is completely JUST these relationships, her family got slaughtered by car accident, then her family got slaughtered by katherine,then she find out she is magical mcguffin born of magic for sake of DYING, then her family got REALLY slaughtered by Klaus, then she died, then her brother died(AGAIN), then steff murdered dozens of people(obviously not his fault since its all whitewashed), killed andie and the all the girl thinks or talks about are these two relationships. 

 

Writing-wise its a slugfest of Chuck/Blair levels of twisted and does-not-make-sense. Writers tries to make the relationships seem EPEEEEEEEEEEK, just make all three characters look utterly pathetic, to the point that the DES triangle has became the ONLY storyline ELena is allowed to react to or talk about. Characterization-wise, DE does NOT work because of what kind of people both Miss Cardboard and Damondward are, as result, thanks to their characterization of S2 and S1 and S3, any and every scene of DE comes off forced. Lately however it is as forced as Matt's involvement in the plot. Its like writers are SEARCHING for an excuse to make them share scene. 

 

So yes, DES is unhealthy and  destructive, to Damon, to Stefan,t o miss cardboard and...to the show itself. 

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I don't blame Stefan...  I blame Damon and Elena.

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4271 posts
Cbsn
This is what I think :(I mean sure I have preferences there but in all honesty I think the most logical ending is both brothers learning from there mistakes and moving forward TOGETHER.I really think they need each other and I'm just waiting for the day they realize it.(I also don't get what's so special about elena that they do be fighting over her but that's a different story lol)

 

 

Great point. I could delve into all the psychological ramifications for Elena's relationships with the brothers, but I'm not interested in the whole bullet plan. Suffice it to say, the DE/SE ships are not a product of thematic elements the writers of this show chose to exercise in an attempt to gain true character development, or to demonstrate the growth of said characters through their ability to achieve a greater level of trust. In writing, it isn't just the characterization that is the issue, it is the whole damn plot.

 

Also, I do totally agree with you Cizzi about the relationship with the brothers. Most people think that character development involves maturity and the practice of finding some moral compass. They fail to understand in literature, the main characters can suffer moral deprivation to the point of becoming the greatest threat, the antagonist, OR the protagonist only submerging down into deeper degradation.

 

Whether the writers want to create a demoralized state within this little triangle remains to be seen, but the course is still the same. They are failing significantly.

 

The relationships are circling the drain.

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So Damon is to blame for the current annoying pathetic clusterfuck that is SE? really now? He has a plenty reasons to be blamed for but thats not one of them.

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mm
Guest
Its a tv show ie its not real life. Your watching a vampire show at that. Go read the Bible or something if your so upset. Nobody would watch a brotherly love vamp show.
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22846 posts
Elenalovesspn

Nobody would watch a brotherly love vamp show.

I would. Definately.
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Cj
Guest
I don't blame anyone but fate on a tv show. Stefan chose to leave for himself more then his bro and def. Not for his girl. If I do something, I can't blame anyone else because its my own fault. Stef did him so Elena is doing right. She hasn't done anything with Damon and Damon hasn't even tried anything with her. She used to be a sad little girl who lost her parents....Stefan helped her and they loved each other. Then Stefan left her and she's actively tried to help him. She can't tho so he is missing her growing into a strong, confident young woman. Damon is there and is helping with that but she's realizing she is happy even without Stefan because she is standing on her own two feet. IMO she is slowing falling IN love with Damon but IMO nothing should happen (sans a few kisses) between Delena until Stefan comes back. I believe she will have grown An. Matured enough to let Stefan go and choose Damon. JMO
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love rthe falacious rebuttal i just saw. who decided that just because show has vampires, every main relationship should be pathetic slugfest that destroys everyone and everything interesting?

there has been dozens of vampire fiction pairings that did not need to degrade their participants into shit that does not have anything to do but participate in destructive nonsensical love trianfgles.

romance is good and dandy as long as it knows what it is and as long as it does NOT become the main and the only point the characters. romance should be  a supplementary material for characters and help build them instead of degrading every participant

DES is not healthy, nor interesting, nor entertaining, nor has a good writing. its pathetic and what is worse show still pretends its the best thing everrr and takes every chance to force viewers to see just how epic it is.

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