Forever Round Table: The Truth?

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Did the truth come out?

That was the main question going into Forever Season 1 Episode 17, but the ABC promo department struck again and there was no truth to tell. Yet.

Below, TV Fanatics Kathleen Wiedel and Miranda Wicker are joined by TV Fanatic super fan Amy Perrin and Troy from Forever Fan Podcast.

They discuss various developments including the events covered in 1865, whether or not they'd like to see more cyber crime and of course whether Jo was being serious when she told Henry she knew he had been keeping secrets from her.

Forever Round Table 1-27-15

What did you think of the case?

Kathleen: I found it altogether unlikely that one law enforcement officer would hold a single "key to the city" password. For one thing, having a single password to give someone access to everything seems an incredibly bad idea, as demonstrated here. For another, I don't know of any sort of bureaucratic environment that would be so efficient and on the same page as to have everything connected to one password like that, anyway. Putting that aside, the case was ultimately less about computers and more about people. Agent Gibbs from NCIS would be proud.

Miranda: I think this was my favorite case yet. Were there elements which made no sense, as Kathleen pointed out? Sure. There were. But I love the idea that everyone has secrets and everyone is entitled to keep them. It makes the question of when Henry's secret will be revealed that much more enticing.

Amy: It was good, but I didn't enjoy it as much as last week's case. I was really surprised that it was Irene, I never suspected her. Poor Henry being blackmailed by Irene, and then Liz. Living in this Information Age is quite scary, and I find that technology is a blessing and a curse. Do any one of us that use the computer on a daily basis actually have true security? Lord knows I am addicted to the internet.

Troy: I had no clue what was going to happen next at any point in this episode. The investigation unfolded logically and moved the story along at a good pace. I think the way privacy and personal secrets were central to the Faceless plot point really ramped up Henry’s confrontation with Liz and provided motivation for both Irene’s crime and death.

Speak a bit about Liz and how she ended up helping Henry.

Kathleen: Liz owed Henry her life, twice over. By refusing to give her the death certificate, he kept her from a life on the run, always looking over her shoulder and living each day in fear of discovery. And then again later, when he kept her from being murdered in her hospital bed.

Miranda: I loved that moment, but what I loved more than that moment was the fact that Henry refused to give her the death certificate and condemn her to a life of loneliness and then risked his secret coming out again to save her in the hospital.

Amy: I was happily surprised that she did that. Henry risked everything for Liz, and saved her life, so it was the least she could do. Henry is a great guy, with a heart of gold.

Troy: Liz is one of my favorite new characters introduced on the show. I hope we see her again and that she becomes a romantic interest for Lucas. Her spoken motivation for helping Henry is believable. The only part of this episode that I found difficult to believe is that Liz, the amazing hacker, would need a paper death certificate when she could easily create a full history for Henry.

Did the ABC promos fool you into thinking Jo knew the truth?

Kathleen: Hardly. I always assume promos are a bunch of unrelated lines of dialog spliced together to make you think the episode is something completely different from what it is. I found it highly unlikely that they would have blown one of their big sources of drama (Henry trying to keep the secret from Jo) this early on in the series.

Miranda: ABC is the best/worst at misleading promos, so I never think they're revealing what they want us to think they're revealing. (Except that time Revenge said "Someone will die!" Uh...thanks?) I'm excited for the moment Henry does tell Jo and her reaction when that happens.

Amy: Promos always love to tease the audience. I didn't really think that Jo would find out the truth this early, so I wasn't overly worried.

Troy: I did begin to think about how the show would be different if Jo knew his secret. I knew that the secret wouldn’t be received in this episode regardless of the promo.

What did you think of the time spent in 1865?

Kathleen: We got to see a different side of Henry in the flashbacks. When Henry's with Abigail, he's almost always happy and loving and affectionate. When it came to his first wife, Nora, he showed a bitterness, anger, and resentment that had not diminished despite the passing of decades. Henry never forgave Nora for committing him, though he still cared enough for her to not immediately insist she get packed off to the insane asylum the way she did to him. And the unfortunate nurse paid the price.

Miranda: I really enjoyed this week's flashbacks. I wondered what had become of Nora after she left him in the asylum and also what had become of Henry's love for her. I think it would've been more fitting for HER to take some time in an asylum, but Henry's too good a man to let that happen. Except then she shot Anne, so...

Amy: We have seen a lot of Abigail, so it was good to see a little more of Nora. Nora had Henry committed to an insane asylum, and now she was threatening to expose his immortality. I felt bad when Nora shot Henry's new girlfriend. I do not like Nora, and I actually hope that this is the last we see her.

Troy: This is one of the saddest flashbacks I have seen on Forever. I hoped this was an opportunity for Nora to redeem herself in Henry’s eyes, it was not. I hoped this was a time when Henry was living a ‘good life’ similar to what he is living now, it was not. The saddest thing, which is also mindblowing is that the events in this flashback happened before we were even first introduced to Nora. Henry’s relationship with Nora since he was cursed/blessed was a tragedy.

Would you like to see more cases involving cyber crimes?

Kathleen: Meh. One of the problems with cyber crime type stories is that the writers rarely seem to do their research. Like, "It's the key to all Internet security! It can open up all the things!" Yeah, it doesn't actually work that way, folks.

Miranda: I think, like Kathleen said, they have to be grounded in some sort of reality. I don't mind cyber crime stories, but I think NYC has enough non-cyber crime murder that we don't have to do too many of them to fill up several seasons worth of mysteries to solve.

Amy: Maybe. There is a lot that can be done within cyber crimes, but I agree with Kathleen and Miranda that it has to be grounded within reality.

Troy: More cyber crimes would be a great way to both see Liz again and see Det. Hanson deal with the new sleuthing is his comical way. I say the make a spin-off titled Forever: Cyber Crimes!

Remember you can watch Forever online right here on TV Fanatic. Get caught up now!

Note: Forever Season 1 Episode 18 airs Tuesday March 24th at 10/9c on ABC.

Paul Dailly is the Associate Editor for TV Fanatic. Follow him on Twitter.

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Forever Season 1 Episode 17 Quotes

That's faceless. They're called hackers. They are probably watching us as we speak.


It's the future of murder. Killing someone with a key stroke.