Supernatural Round Table: Is Death Really Dead?

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The Darkness is growing up, and Crowley is looking to make friends.

There was a a lot taking place on Supernatural Season 11 Episode 2 - from Sam looking for a cure to the Darkness getting stronger to Castiel not making any angel friends. And is Death really dead??? 

Below, TV Fanatic staff writers Christine Laskodi and Sean McKenna are joined by The Winchester Family Business’ Alice Jester and Nightsky, all of whom are excited to talk about “Form and Void.” Check out their thoughts below and join in the fun...

Supernatural Round Table 1-27-15

What was your favorite scene or quote?

Nightsky: Sam holding burning holy oil near his neck to rid himself of the Darkness. A lot was happening in that scene. There was a voice telling him not to do it, which added intensity, mystery and conflict. Jared’s portrayal of Sam’s strength of will battling overpowering fear was thrilling to watch. The VFX of sparks and embers inside Sam’s veins were exciting and very well done. Plus this meant that Sam had been smart enough to find a cure, and he saved himself. I like it when the boys win.

Christine: Sam has really come out swinging this season! I completely agree with Nightsky, that moment of burning was incredible. Did anyone else hear Lucifer's voice as one of the ones Sam heard in that moment? Because I swear I think I did! I also really loved the chapel scene when Sam prayed and asked for hope. Something about that was beautiful. Sam has come so far on this road with Dean, and they're both so weary from the same over and over, and now he just wants something as simple as a sign of hope. I admit that I teared up a little.

Alice: It’s really hard to choose, but the one that churned my gut the hardest is when Billie the reaper visited Sam. For one, her rendition of “O Death” was fantastic. Then there’s the shot of her singing that song (with full gospel goodness), the shadow of her hand reaching out to touch the shadow of a dead person’s hand, and then her talk with Sam. Whoa! Sam and Dean have certainly angered the reapers, and now I’m intrigued by the idea that souls can be tossed into “the empty.” I’m also thrilled to hear that for Sam and Dean, the next death for each of them will be the last. That raises the stakes for sure. Her “See you soon” to a dying Sam was just icing on the cake.

Sean: I know I already saw it in the preview photos for Supernatural Season 11 Episode 2, but I really liked the reveal of Crowley as the priest. It was a funny reaction from Dean as was Crowley’s comments about Dean being an altar boy. I always enjoy a fun humorous moment.

Were you surprised Sam was able to cure himself so quickly?

Nightsky: Yes. I expected Sam’s prior demon blood would give his body a way to physically fight the disease, or his experience resisting Lucifer's torture would give his mind the ability to slow its progression (a theory that was strengthened when he and the chained guy specifically talked about the slower advance of Sam’s Darkness). I am actually disappointed that such a dramatic peril wasn't extended at least one or two more episodes. It feels like we missed out on an opportunity for that emotional intensity to last longer into the season.

Christine: No. Obviously, Sam was going to cure himself, we knew that much. I'm glad they didn't drag it out, honestly, because I want to get right to the action and not have a long drawn out story with Darkness zombies. It's funny, in Supernatural Season 10 I wanted Deanmon dragged out longer, and this time around with Sam, I was like, "Let's move this along. He's going to be fine." I almost feel like this episode and Supernatural Season 11 Episode 1 may have been better suited as a solid two hour premiere in terms of moving all of the pieces into place because at this episode's end, I felt ready to start the season more so than last week.

Alice: No, only because he had help. Billie the reaper may have delivered a bleak message, but she also gave him a big clue. I swear she’s working on orders from someone. God? Death? Then he got an actual freaking sign after praying to God! I knew he wasn’t going to fail with that info. Sam is the kind of guy who has proven he can pull things together eventually. Yes, in the zero hour usually, but he has a track record. He’s also lucky. I mean, damn good thing he keeps holy oil in his bag all the time, right? I’m curious if there are any residual effects to being infected, like if he starts seeing some really weird things.

Sean: I was kind of surprised he was cured so fast. And I also wish he had told Dean about it in this episode. That said, I don’t think that being cured of the infection is simply the end of it. Considering he had the vision, something is still up, and I’m interested to see what’s next.

What were those visions Sam saw?

Nightsky: The obvious conclusion is that it was flashbacks of his time in Hell. When he didn’t say anything to confirm that, though, I wondered if it was a vision of his possible future. My leading theory now is that Lucifer heard Sam’s prayer, and somehow strengthened by the release of the Darkness, Lucifer was able to torture Sam with visions. 

Christine: Oh! That's an interesting theory Nightsky! I assumed that they were visions of his time in Hell and that his visions were going to be returning. The breadcrumbs are definitely being dropped that Lucifer will return. No doubt about that. I'd be shocked if he didn't at this point. I also couldn't tell if that vision had anything to do with him performing the holy burn. He prayed and asked for help, got that vision, and then knew how to heal himself with a quick Google search. It happened very quickly.

Alice: I presume it was him being tortured in the cage. The chains through his ribs looked a lot like the ones Dean had when he was hanging on Hell’s meat hooks. I’m also going off the clue that the vision was powerful enough to drop him to his knees, which is exactly what happened in Supernatural Season 6 Episode 22 and Supernatural Season 7 Episode 1 when he was hit with such vivid images. I’m wondering though if he’ll get more. After all, the cage is making noise again. I wouldn’t mind seeing both Sam and Dean be haunted by their memories of Hell.

Sean: I thought it was his vision of being in the cage, but I like Nightsky’s theory. What if it wasn’t God who answered his prayer? There’s been a lot of talk of the cage and Lucifer so far, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he returned.

Is Death gone for good?

Nightsky: No. My WFB series tracks clues hidden within dialog, so I specifically listen for underlying messages. I heard several things in this episode that specifically hinted that the Death that Dean saw in his final battle with the mark was a vision.

Christine: No way is Death gone. I think maybe Death is harmed or backing off to rest for a while and will return stronger and with a vengeance. I read a few theories that suggested that Billie was Death regenerated, but I didn't get that vibe from her. I liked her message though, that the next time one of them dies they go to the Empty, and that's it. Another nod from the writers that they won't do another "Bring brother back from Hell" story, perhaps?

Alice: Hell no! Who gave Billie that message? I think it was Death, who’s still pulling strings. Her message to Sam sounded like one of Death’s numerous tests. Or maybe she is Death. Is she the old Death is disguise or the new Death? Who knows, but as long as people are dying, Death is in town.

Sean: After the conversation with Billie the reaper, I just don’t think so. I was super hesitant to believe Death was gone in the first place, but something is still going on. Those higher powers definitely are pulling strings somehow, and we have yet to learn the truth.

Will Dean's bond with the Darkness really prevent him from killing it?

Nightsky: No. I have faith that Dean will always do the right thing, no matter what supernatural force has destined him to do otherwise.

Christine: This is where it gets a little tricky. I want to say Dean won't harm a child (but I also really didn't think he'd kill the Styne kid last season either; when Dean is under mystical forces, he's not always prone to doing the right thing.) But I also have to assume that Amara is going to keep eating souls until we see her again as the woman we met in Supernatural Season 11 Episode 1. Since Sam really has taken the lead already this season, I'm leaning toward this being a time when Dean won't be strong enough to kill the big bad, and Sam will for both of them. That's where I am right now, after this hour. That will most likely change as the episodes go on.

Alice: Crowley raised a great point, how can Dean kill The Darkness? It’s not happening because she can’t be killed.  It’s like trying to kill God or Death (he’s not dead!). I think that if he tried though, he wouldn’t go through with it unless the fate of the entire world was on the line. Or Sam’s. I think the opportunity will come up at least once, and he’ll hesitate. She’s got quite a hold on him, and Dean has been someone who always goes by his gut instinct.

Sean: I don’t think the Darkness will be a little girl for long with all the souls she’s going to be eating or getting. But it seems as if this bond is super strong or something. I feel like Dean can get past it though, after all, the brother’s make their own destiny, right?

What's Crowley's plan with the Darkness?

Nightsky: Death said it best: It’s about the souls. The Darkness is power, and being a survivor, Crowley always aligns himself with the most powerful player in the game. I don’t know his plan for her, but the first smart move is to get on her good side.

Christine: I think Crowley might try to raise the Darkness to work for him, and end up in a pickle of his own when he realizes the Darkness works for no one. I could see Crowley using the Darkness as bait for the Winchesters, to give him the upper hand again, and then everything backfiring on him.

Alice: I have no idea, but I’m sure it’s clever and designed to improve his position in the power food chain. That cage is getting noisy, and having The Darkness on your side makes for a great backup should that problem escalate.  Crowley is an opportunist and someone that always stays one step ahead from everyone else. Plus, someone has to take down his mother. Amara would be one powerful ally. However, these plans can go south for Crowley. Look at Demon Dean. I hope he’s thought this one through. 

Sean: Oh, Crowley. He’s so clever, and yet I can’t help but see this plan backfiring. There’s no way the Darkness will work for him. I guess we will see it play out, but Crowley better get ready for things to go south just in case.

And here is your first look at Supernatural Season 11 Episode 3:

Sean McKenna was a TV Fanatic Staff Writer. He retired in May of 2017. Follow him on Twitter.

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