Lucifer as the president of the United States? Lucifer is having a baby? Sam and Dean captured?
A lot went down as the Winchesters sought to defeat Lucifer on Supernatural Season 12 Episode 8. Mr. Ketch. That magic egg. That ending!
And TV Fanatic staff writers Sean McKenna and Christine Laskodi and The Winchester Family Business' Alice and Nightsky are ready to talk all about "LOTUS."
So strap in and join the conversation about the midseason finale in the latest Supernatural Round Table.
What was your favorite scene or quote?
Alice: There’s a couple that stand out for me. First is when Rowena was getting dumped by her gold digger boyfriend.
Crowley shows up, explodes the guy all over Rowena, and her bloody faced reaction is priceless! “That is the sweetest thing you’ve ever done for me.”
Close second was Mr. Ketch’s appearance with the grenade launcher. That was pretty cool. I’m just mad Dean didn’t get to use his first.
Christine: I loved the scene with Crowley blowing up Rowena's boyfriend. That's the kind of stuff I wish they'd do more often.
I also really loved, and was entirely creeped out by, Lucifer as the bishop. He was SO eerie.
When the crosses slowly flipped, I wished that the story would be different, and that THIS would be Lucifer's slightly more permanent vessel.
Nightsky: By far it was the scene where everyone worked together to send Lucifer back to the cage. That was exciting and very well done.
I was left unsure about the white light entering the air vent, though.
Some say that was Lucifer's pathway to Hell. I thought it was him, or part of him, escaping, especially after he said, "This isn't over Sam!"
That is a rather important detail that was left unclear – unless it was done purposely.
Sean: I really wasn't a fan of Crowley exploding his mom's boyfriend.
But my favorite moment had to be Dean's reaction to Mr. Ketch using the grenade launcher, especially since we've seen him try and use it before.
It was a small moment but definitely one that worked.
What did you think of Lucifer using the president as his vessel?
Alice: Strangely, it worked. When I read about it I thought it would be a horrible idea! I mean a true blue “jump the shark” moment.
But they kept it grounded in reality by the president being away in a friend’s compound.
The fact that the president was a conservative religious nut also made it believable that he would be duped by Lucifer. All in all, it played out very well. I’m surprised.
Christine: I totally agree with Alice. I had the same thought.
I was worried it would come off as a tongue-in-cheek joke, but having the action not happening at the White House really helped the story seem more grounded, surprisingly.
Nightsky: I guess I'm the opposing view this week because I didn't like the idea AT ALL.
It felt too melodramatic, and I was completely thrown out of the mythology of the show. It was a throwback to Leviathan-level silliness for me.
Sean: Nope. I was in the same boat as you, Nightsky. It just felt too silly, and I kept wondering what I was watching during all of the pillow talk scenes with Lucifer and Kelly.
Lucifer taking on the archbishop, now that was creepy. I wish that was the vessel he took on rather than the president of the United States.
Is that the last we've seen of Lucifer?
Alice: I really, really, really, really hope so. I’m so done with him and the whole exorcism scene had a satisfying conclusion to me.
I know there is speculation that he jumped into the Secret Service agent, but I hope that’s not true.
I’m more in love with the idea that he wreaked enough havoc during his time on earth that now that he’s back in the cage the damage has been done.
The curse of Lucifer continues, but we don’t have to go through any more painful Lucifer possession stories or whiny rants.
Christine: I hope it's the last we see of him for now.
It would be a good idea to pack him away for a bit and focus on the British Men of Letters, which I'm still confused about and can't figure out what their deal is.
It's really hard for the show to balance two "villains" and the return of Mary, so scaling back on something may help the season get a bit more focus.
I think they've really lacked focus this season with so many things going on at the same time.
Nightsky: No. Maybe I'm the only fan who feels Dean's proclamation of victory was premature but whether it's sooner or later, Lucifer isn't done.
Sean: I'd like him to be done, at least for a while. I'm sure he'll be back, especially with his proclamation about it not being over. The writers just don't want to let him go.
Are you surprised Sam and Dean were caught at the end?
Alice: Yes. They’re usually good at quick exits when there is trouble. I mean, why did they stick around? It didn’t seem plausible to me.
Having said that though, I love the idea that they’ve finally been caught by the feds and are being taken to one of those secret places where they take the worst offenders.
I’ve always wondered how that scenario would have played out. Now we get to find out! Don’t blow it writers, I’ve waited a very long time for this.
Christine: Again, totally on the same page as Alice.
I couldn't figure out why the Winchesters weren't personally seeing to Lucifer's baby mama, but when they got arrested I assumed it was because there's a bigger setup.
I'm personally wondering if the arrest had something to do with the British Men of Letters. The timing was too convenient.
That being said, I'm looking forward to seeing how Sam and Dean will do in prison. It seems like a great bottle episode if it's done correctly.
Nightsky: The only possible redemption for that plot development would be that it was intentional. Standing around just waiting for the president, who remembered nothing, to wake up with them standing over him?
That was insultingly ludicrous, so there has to be a reason for it.
Sean: It was ridiculous and felt so contrived. Don't get me wrong, it will be interesting to see how they handle being locked up, but there could have been a way better way to capture them.
Even now, it's hard to believe they weren't able to get away or even have someone teleport them out.
What do you think about the Lucifer's baby storyline?
Alice: Another storyline I’ve been dying to see in Supernatural is a nephilim scenario. It’s one big part of biblical lore they’ve never explored.
I see why – there wasn’t a right time in the plot to do that until now. I’m extremely impressed they went there.
I hope that storyline doesn’t become trivial and results in some real trouble down the road. I don’t want to see it dominate storylines either.
The baby should be just another tricky variable in this Winchester world.
Christine: I'm surprised that it took this long to do a story like this! I think Lucifer potentially having a child opens the door for a lot of higher-stakes possibilities.
I'm really excited to see how the story is handled for Sam and Dean.
Do they protect the mother at all costs because they know what her child means, or encourage her story to go in another direction?
Like are they going to try and eliminate her? Will she change as a result of carrying Lucifer's baby?
This is a totally fresh story for them, and I'm pleased that even 12 seasons in the Supernatural writers still come up with amazing stuff like this.
Nightsky: Again, I seem to have the minority view here, but I think it's disgusting. This episode turned the show into a Exorcist/Omen crossover.
All I could think of was that the baby is going to be named Damien.
Now they're going to try to capture a pregnant woman to, what? Kill a baby? Turn them both over to the angel squad?
Are they going to end up protecting the baby because it is the very best of what Lucifer was before he was corrupted?
How is this plot going back to the basics of the brothers on the backroads fighting everyday monsters?
A Lucifer "spawn", as Castiel called it, does not lend itself to a smaller foe, which is what was promised for Supernatural Season 12.
This was the jump-the-shark moment for me and, completely opposite of Alice or Christine, I'm very worried about where the show is going.
Sean: I rolled my eyes initially after finding out Kelly was pregnant. But at the same time, it is something different, so I'm curious as to where things are going to go.
I'll see how this plays out, and I just hope it fares better then the way the Lucifer storyline of this season wound up.
Sean McKenna was a TV Fanatic Staff Writer. He retired in May of 2017. Follow him on Twitter.