Supernatural Round Table: The Lucifer Twist

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Hellhounds. Lucifer vs. Crowley. Castiel’s choice.

So much went down on Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15, including Sam revealing to Dean he has been working with the British Men of Letters.

But was it all exciting? Did all those moments work?

TV Fanatic staff writers Sean McKenna and Christine Laskodi and The Winchester Family Business’ Alice and Nightsky get right into it to talk all about “Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell.”

So join in the latest Supernatural Round Table!

Supernatural Round Table 1-27-15

What was your favorite scene or quote?

Alice: The final scene with Sam and Dean. Honestly, given how slow and choppy the pacing of this episode was, I’m surprised I lasted that long. 

It was a worthwhile scene, though. Sam didn’t have to fight hard to get Dean to come around about working with the British Men of Letters. After all, they work with Crowley, and they aren’t dead yet. Yet.

They’ve had a lot of good leads, and judging by the first scene after the teaser, Dean is definitely enjoying the work.

On the phone with Sam and Dean - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

Nightsky: I agree with Alice that the broment when Sam told Dean the truth was my favorite scene of the show.

We don’t get a lot of heart to heart talks between the brothers anymore, so it was nice to see them “we, us, together” bond gain. 

The scene wasn’t overplayed, either. Sam apologized, Dean admitted Sam was right. It was refreshing to see maturity.

Sam waits for an answer - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

Christine: We're all in agreement. That Sam and Dean moment was heartfelt without being cheesy. They've grown a lot to be able to just come to an agreement and move on.

I loved it.

Sean: Good brother moment for sure, but I really liked the twist that Lucifer didn’t escape.

Crowley chats with Lucifer - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

Sure, maybe he’ll still escape at some point, but it was a reveal that went away from the obvious.

And how cool was it when Lucifer revealed his wings, and then Crowley revealed he was still in control. Not bad for the King of Hell.

Did you enjoy the return of the hellhound?

Lucifer takes the throne - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

Alice: No. That whole part of the episode was terrible. Plus, Sam’s kill of the hellhound wasn’t anywhere near as good as when he killed the first one in Supernatural Season 8.

It was predictable, and the setup was super lame.

And why did the hellhound go after the young couple again? I must have missed why other than wrong time/wrong place. It didn’t make sense to me.

Crowley’s got a plan - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

Nightsky: Yes! I had the exact opposite reaction from Alice! For me, the special effects added to the episode’s excitement.

It was also a nice twist that “Ramsey” was the mother of all the hellhounds, making her their alpha. So without knowing it, Sam killed another alpha!

Christine: Ok, I'm split on this one! I didn't love the hellhound return.

Lucifer is all ears - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

I agree with Alice that it was kind of lame, but I thought it was cool that Sam inadvertently took out another alpha. And now I'm wondering more and more about our alpha chat from Supernatural Season 12 Episode 14

Sean: Yes and no. Hellhounds are certainly cool, but something about it was off.

The visual was pretty neat to see again, but the attack felt so random. Plus, the pacing felt off with everything else going on, too.

Lucifer is free! - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

Were you surprised Lucifer wasn't able to break free and defeat Crowley?

Alice: Not surprised. I knew Crowley had some tricks up his sleeve. I’m just pleased with the reveal.

Using the Nick suit as a way to enslave Lucifer and weaken him is pretty damn clever. It wasn’t a cheap cop out, and no wonder Crowley wasn’t worried about Lucifer getting loose. 

I was even calling foul about him being so careless. I guess he was thinking ahead after all. That’s the Crowley I know and love.

Nightsky: I had two reactions. I couldn’t believe Crowley was so inanely careless as to have Lucifer simply chained up in a chair. Why Crowley didn’t put Lucifer back into the cage still hasn’t been revealed.

Crowley said he has big plans for them, but we don’t know what those plans are yet. So when Lucifer was freed, I was close to throwing Alice’s foam bricks at the TV!

I was overjoyed to learn Crowley wasn’t that stupid and had a vessel binding card to play.

Lucifer stays seated - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

I’m not totally on board with how it’s working, though. The body might be the new look and shape of the prison, but why does that give Crowley control? 

Christine: Not really. Crowley has been a bit more, how do I say it, Crowley-ish this season. Like, old-school, conniving Crowley.

And I had a feeling, like everyone else, when he wasn't in the cage that there was a reason.

Lucifer is looking for answers - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

I love the power shift that's happening in Hell there. I can't tell, though, if Crowley wants to join forces or if it'll be a switcheroo where Crowley takes down Lucifer himself.

I'm curious to see that aspect play out.

Sean: I was surprised. It seemed so obvious that Lucifer would escape, especially because he’s Lucifer.

Crowley and a weapon of torture? - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

But to actually have Crowley steps ahead is exciting. And who knows, maybe he’ll even take down Lucifer for good.

Will Castiel follow through and help the angels with Kelly Kline so he can get back into Heaven?

Alice: Sure he will. Castiel always delivers on his promises. 

Castiel means business - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

The question is, which angel or angels will screw him over while he’s doing that? He never seems to win with Heaven. 

I did love the name “Joshua” mentioned, though.  Please, please, please, let him be as honorable as he seemed in Supernatural Season 5 Episode 16, “Dark Side of the Moon.” 

I don’t want another Metatron fiasco where he started good and then turned bad. 

Metatron - Supernatural Season 10 Episode 18

Castiel can’t be the only good angel. I need hope here.

Nightsky: No. He’ll certainly listen to them, but since learning the truth about his part in killing Lily Sunder’s innocent child, I don’t think Castiel will blindly follow Heaven’s orders again.

I don’t believe Cas will remain in exile forever, but I don’t think this is his ticket home.

Facing off against a pirate? - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Christine: Yeah, I'm with Nightsky on this one. Castiel was pretty pissed about Lily Sunder (and it would be a good way to weave her back into the story!), and there's no way he's just going to work blind anymore.

It's always bit him in the ass, and with Lily, it was deeper, and ultimately I think, more disturbing to him.

He won't be exiled forever. Chuck can just fix that, can't he? Remember how he's like besties with the Winchesters?

Sean: I’m not sure where this storyline is going to play out.

I’m intrigued, and love the call out to Joshua.

I just hope that whatever way it goes, it feels worthwhile.

Dean gets off speakerphone - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

What did you think of Dean's response to Sam telling the truth about working with the British Men of Letters?

Alice: I think it was the perfect reaction for Dean.

I’m sure he wasn’t happy, but at the same time he did tell Sam to pick a side and couldn’t fault him for his choice. He had to know that Sam was feeding him BS about the computer program. 

I don’t think he cared where the intel came from. He got to work. 

Sam waits for an answer - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

Also, Mary made that same choice, so she and Sam must have a good reason to believe it’s in their best interest. For what they do, it makes sense.

Nightsky: It worked for me. I would have liked a little more discussion, for instance, Sam explaining that he didn’t tell Dean earlier because he wanted to test out their intel and methods first.

Since the cases in the last two weeks had all panned out, it was time to commit, and he wanted his brother in with him. That would have been a bit better than “I did the same thing as Mom, sorry.”

However, Dean ultimately saw the same advantages as Sam, so there’s peace in Winchesterland.

Christine: I respect that Dean didn't fly off the handle about it. He's grown a lot to be able just to accept it and move forward.

And like Alice said, he told Sam to pick a side - he can't get mad about Sam's choice when he finally makes one.

I'm also really glad they didn't drag it out. I couldn't handle another Winchester family secret.

I'm just curious about whether or not they're all going to regret this choice.

Sean: I’m just glad it wasn’t dragged out.

On the phone with Sam and Dean - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15

I was so worried Dean would get pissed and then episodes where the brothers are apart.

Dean may not like it, but he’s willing to stick with his brother to see where it goes.

Sean McKenna was a TV Fanatic Staff Writer. He retired in May of 2017. Follow him on Twitter.

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Supernatural Season 12 Episode 15 Quotes

Computers - monsters, porn, is there anything they can’t do?


No, seriously, Sam, what are we gonna say? "Hi, my name is Sam Winchester, and this is my much handsomer brother, Dean. We hunt monsters, oh and that guy you were banging, we’re pretty sure he made a deal with a demon, so a hellhound came and dragged his soul to Hell. But you, you’re cool. And since there’s nothing around for us to kill, peace out."