We're back with another lively round table discussion. This time, the table shares their thoughts on Yellowstone Season 4 Episode 4.
Once again, the round table features participants from The Yellowstone Bunkhouse, including Julie Castaneda, Jim Thomas, and Kenny Stone who join TV Fanatic senior staff writers Whitney Evans and Jack Ori this week.
Lloyd let his anger toward Walker get the best of him. Did he handle that situation right, and was Rip right to rein him in as he did?
Julie: Lloyd has let his emotions get the best of him lately. His decision making is impaired and Rip knows it. When it comes to the rules on the ranch, Lloyd should know better than anyone. He’s a senior cowboy, with over 30 years on the ranch. He was, at one time the foreman. The bunkhouse is supposed to look up to Lloyd.
Sadly, his credibility is dwindling. Rip went after Lloyd and rightfully so. It’s chain of command and the shit ran downhill. I think we’re going to see more back story about Lloyd coming up. There is a lot we don’t know about him. Like, how did he lose his foreman position to Rip? I’m looking forward to learning more about Lloyd.
Whitney: Lloyd has been one big moody, anxious ball for a while now. He was bound to blow up eventually, so it wasn't all that surprising. That anger had to go somewhere, and after a really rough day, he just snapped.
But Lloyd should know better. Rip has to do what Rip has to do to keep things running in the right way. He had to do something, so I guess in that sense he was right to rein him in that way.
Jack: I agree with the above -- Lloyd has been so emotional lately that this would happen sooner or later, plus the cowboy culture involves settling problems with fists.
So this wasn't surprising, and Lloyd did what was natural for Lloyd to do. However, Rip was right to rein him in. He can't have Lloyd going off on Walker while Rip is trying to deal with Carter (or with anything, really).
Kenny: It's important to remember that Lloyd has been there for a long time, As a result, he isn't going to let some "cocky" newcomer come in and insult him in front of everyone else. If he did, then he would lose the respect from everyone.
He's a Cowboy and No cowboy is going to let someone run their mouth and get away with it. As for Rip's actions, although he didn't want to fight Lloyd, he had to make Lloyd accountable for his breaking the rules.
Jim: Let’s face it, there are very few men in this world that haven’t had a woman get their mind all twisted up. While Lloyd and Laramie’s relationship wasn’t (according to Lloyd) sexual, she was sleeping in his bed before Walker showed up.
She’s not the first girl with daddy issues, or to get her thrill from having men chase her, but it wasn’t right to jump from Lloyd to Walker and not expect there to be trouble at some point. Unfortunately this stuff happens far to often in real life too.
Rip was more pissed at having to fight Lloyd in front of everybody than he was mad about the reason. Lloyd is his best friend, no man enjoys fighting his best friend or humiliating him in front of others.
Every time it seems we've said goodbye to Jimmy, he's back. This time, he dragged us to Texas. Are you interested in that story continuing on Yellowstone?
Julie: I think we’ve seen the last of Jimmy on Yellowstone. I think he’ll be mentioned, but I think we will have to wait for the big reveal on 6666. I’m not gonna lie, I cried my eyes out as Jimmy walked all alone towards the barn at the 6666. Goodbye Jimmy! We’ll see you soon!
Whitney: Short answer, no. Though, this definitely felt more like a goodbye than the last episode. I like Jimmy, but his storyline being completely separate from everything just takes away from the happenings on the ranch, which I'm way more invested in.
Jack: I was surprised Jimmy was involved in this episode of Yellowstone, but I was glad. I like Jimmy and I'll miss him, at least until 6666 starts.
Kenny: I don't see him coming back. I see his being sent away as the way for him to have to grow up and learn to be a man rather than the "kid" that everyone makes fun of.
Jim: I just don’t like the way they did Jimmy this season. It would have been a much better storyline to have Jimmy training to show the Yellowstone horses. I don’t think many people are going to be happy with Taylor over this storyline.
When Travis and Jimmy were riding towards the 4 6’s that seemed like a normal conversation, then as soon as they got to the ranch, the arrogant asshole made another appearance. I would hate to lose Jimmy, but if it means never seeing Taylor in another episode this year it will be worth it.
Beth has finally met Market Equities' Caroline. What did you think of their meeting, Caroline's offer, and Beth's counter? How do you see that playing out?
Julie: LOVED THAT SCENE!!! Poor Ellis… hahahaha! Beth has met her match with Caroline. At least until she figures out what Caroline’s weaknesses are. I think Beth sees the job offer as a way to gain some leverage for the ranch.
And with controlling interest in Schwartz & Meyer, she’ll have a little fun on the side, too. But Caroline better read AALL the fine print, because at the end of the day Beth is loyal only to her daddy.
Whitney: Beth is a doozy. I can completely understand why other women are so enamored by her. She's smart as hell, and above all else she's real. She doesn't tell you what you want to hear. Ever. She's only going to tell you the truth.
Caroline's offer seemed too good to be true almost. But Beth is always thinking ten steps ahead, so whatever happens, she will be looking out for what's in the best interest of John first.
Jack: I've seen a number of commentaries about how Beth met her match in Caroline, but I'm not sure I buy that. Sure, in the moment, Caroline surprised Beth by actually having as much backbone and determination as Beth does, but there's so much more to Beth than meets the eye and I think Beth is thinking way ahead.
Caroline will be a worthy adversary, but of course Beth is already looking to twist the situation to her advantage. She'll accept the job offer so that she can destroy her enemies from the inside... but that's probably not even her whole plan, just the part she told John.
Kenny: I think that Beth will get what she wants as far as taking Carolyn's position. However, it is important to remember that she has said many times that "she is Loyal to her dad and not Yellowstone, and that as soon as John dies she wants to sell the entire ranch"
So, we will have to see if that becomes a conflict of interest between her relationship with John and her business plans.
Jim: Caroline stated it correctly when she said Beth could be a monster, what she doesn’t realize is while she has old age and treachery on her side, Beth can be pure evil when necessary. Remember Beth telling Roarke that he was the trailer park and she was the tornado.
Once Kayce lit the fire under Monica with the news they could reside elsewhere, she practically jumped out the window to make a beeline to the truck that would whisk her away. How will this latest problem affect their marriage?
Julie: Monica hasn’t been happy on the ranch. She tolerated what she could, but she doesn’t enjoy it. Kayce is no longer a working cowboy. He goes to work in town at the Livestock office, so I’m not sure what he’d be missing out on at the Yellowstone.
It should make things better for Monica. But I don’t think that’s what Taylor has in mind. Something else is going to happen that puts a twist on things, but I don’t think it will be because they moved off the ranch. I want to note that John is now without a successor at this point. What’s he going to do now? Hand the ranch off to Rip and Beth?
Whitney: Kayce and Monica need to figure out what it is that they both want. What they want from life and what that means for their family. They've been dancing around these serious conversations for some time, and everything will not magically get better because they don't live at the Yellowstone anymore.
They've been growing further and further apart, and I personally don't see that changing unless they both are on the same page. But even then, it feels like too much damage has been done.
Jack: This may help Monica and Tate in the short run, but as Whitney points out, there are a lot of problems between Monica and Kayce that need to be worked out. Ultimately, Kayce is still involved with the ranch and particularly with helping John, which is what Monica has ALWAYS objected to.
There's been this not-always-explicitly-stated conflict in which Monica feels John is corrupting Kayce and possibly Tate, while Kayce feels he's doing what's right for the family, and until that's solved, if it ever is, there are going to be problems.
Kenny: I think the biggest situation here is that Monica doesn't know what she wants. She likes all of the nice things that the Yellowstone offers, but she doesn't want Tate growing up in that environment.
So, now that Kayce has agreed to take her and Tate away, as well as, the fact that Kayce has an office job so that he doesn't have to be at the Yellowstone everyday, I see them trying to start their own life. However, this is going to be one more thing that puts tension between John and one of his kids.
Jim: It is completely understandable for anyone that has suffered a traumatic experience to want to go where they feel safe. For three seasons they built Monica’s character into this strong beautiful woman and here is another example of this seasons bad writing. Whoever is writing for the show this season should be fired immediately.
What's your reaction to the scene between Kayce and Jamie?
Julie: Okay…. I loved this scene, too! I’ve had a feeling for a long time now about Jamie. I know he loves his family. Sure he’s pissed off. Rightfully so.
But he’s been manipulated by Garrett and I don’t think he realized how much he missed his family until that moment. He obviously felt validated and appreciated when Kayce impressed that John wanted Jamie to handle the interview at the prison. I’d bet money that jamie IS in fact a Dutton, by way of his mother Phylis.
I think his name is James (Jamie) named after James Dutton. I expect at some point that fun-fact will get dropped. Jamie is going to save the day! Mark my words!
Whitney: Oh, that scene was beautiful. Jamie is a lot of things, but at his core, he's just a person who craves love. And he needed to hear from Kayce that John hasn't given up on him. And he needed to hear Kayce tell him that he loved him.
I agree with Julie that I do think in the end, Jamie will be the one that helps piece things together and save his family. But getting to the point will continue to be painful for everyone.
Jack: I loved that scene too. Kayce went in with the agenda of finding out of Jamie was involved in the attack, but it went in a completely different direction and ended up being about the two brothers bonding.
Jamie has resented being on the outside for a long time and this was the first time he felt as if John respected him or that he was even a full member of the family. Of course, we know John and Beth have their suspicions still, but it was a nice moment nevertheless.
Kenny: That was a wonderful and emotional scene. We see Kayce trying to "mend fences" with Jamie, but at the same time questioning Jamie's position on everything.
In addition to that, we see Jamie being conflicted between his feelings against John and Beth, his real father and his position of Attorney General. As a result, he is caught in the middle with no way out that doesn't hurt the people that he loves.
Jim: Kayce and Jamie prove DNA doesn’t make you family. Jamie has been treated like a redheaded stepchild throughout this show and it’s just not right.
Now that Jamie has the key linking Garrett to the attack on Jamie's family, what do you expect will come of it?
Julie: I’m suspicious of this new info. It was so anticlimactic and predictable. Where did Garrett get the money to pay for a hit? I think there is more to this.
Anyway, to answer the question, I think Garrett will try to blackmail Jamie, and Jamie will kill him. Remember in season 1, when Felix told Kayce “we are not your people”? Kayce didn’t listen to that wisdom and tried to stand with Monica’s family.
But in the end, he chose his brother over hers. Well it’s the same thing here…. Garrett may be the biological father, but he is not Jamie’s people and Jamie will choose his family over Garrett.
Whitney: I'm sure there is more there than meets the eye, but I firmly believe Garrett was behind the attacks. Or he had a large hand in it at least.
Perhaps there's someone else we're missing that Garrett linked up with to help with the financials. It does feel a bit predictable thus far but I think it's just because we don't have all the facts.
My fear is that Jamie will try to figure things out on his own and even though he's trying to help his family, they will feel slighted he wasn't more upfront with them and it will just lead to further miscommunication, estrangement, and hurt feelings.
Jack: I agree that Garrett's involvement seems predictable, but it does set Jamie up for a conflict between his biological father and his adoptive family.
I fully expect it will go in this direction somehow, whether it's a scenario like Julie suggests or one like Whitney suggests. There are sure to be some twists in it, but it seems inevitable at this point that Garrett was involved somehow or other.
Kenny: We have to remember that all Jamie has is a paper showing that Garrett and the other person were cell mates. There is nothing "yet" that implicates Garrett as being involved with the attacks. As a result, Jamie doesn't know what to do. He doesn't want to accuse Garrett without proof, but he also can't ignore the situation.
Jim: DNA doesn’t make you family. Is Jamie really willing to throw away 40 years of family for Garrett? I wouldn’t. Jamie has had more opportunities in life than many others just because of the Dutton name. And I think it will turn out that Jamie’s mom was John’s sister and as such is a Dutton by blood.
Share your favorite quote.
Julie: “A $125,000 truck, pulling a million dollars worth of horses, hauling a $150,000 trailer, I drive.” My favorite quote because I say this almost every weekend going to horse shows! Nobody drives my truck or pulls my trailer. Nobody! I’m living the dream. ❤️
Caroline: Stubbornness is not a business strategy, Beth. It's how you lose the ranch all together. You're smart enough to know that.
Beth: Oh, I know it, and if we still own it by the time my father dies, you're my first call. But in the meantime, his dream is my Alamo, and I will die on the fuckin' wall defending it.
Whitney: I loved the whole exchange between Caroline and Beth. But in particular Beth stating that John's dream is her alamo.
Jack: I again enjoyed Beth's conversation with John, especially her telling him that there is no peace in this house and that's why everyone leaves. But I laughed out loud at John and Rip's exchange over Carter.
John: Is he in trouble?
Rip: He pissed off your daughter.
John: Then he's in trouble.
Kenny: I have two favorite quotes, I agree with Julie about the 125,000.00 truck , 150,000 trailer and a million dollars worth of horses. as someone that has competed most of my life. I completely relate to that.
My second favorite was when Jimmy asked Travis where the "back" of the property was and Travis told him that it was the direct opposite of being in the back. The thing about this comment was that it was a refferrence to where Jimmy is at in his life.
He has spent his entire life "in the back," so now he gets to find his way "to the front" and take charge.
Jim: Caroline telling Ellis that Beth could be “Their Monster” not realizing when you release the Kraken, no one is safe.
I think she can make Montana the fastest-growing state in the nation. Behind every milestone of human history stands a monster, and that's our monster.Caroline
Hit the floor with anything else you'd like to discuss that wasn't noted.
Julie: There has been a pit in my stomach since Yellowstone Season 3 when John references his nightmare during a convo with Tate while they were up at the cow camp. I got chills last year when he said “they don’t want help.
They want something else.” I can’t shake it this season. It feels like John knows he’s going to die. He keeps making references in every episode this season so far. Is Taylor going to kill John off? Yellowstone Season 5 maybe? I don’t know. It’s just a feeling.
Whitney: This is the second week in a row I felt like nothing really happened. And I mean that to say the episode was fine, but not super compelling or something I was just dying to relive the second it was over, which is something I've come to expect from Yellowstone, whether that's fair or not.
So, as we approach the midway point of Yellowstone Season 4, I have to say I'm a little underwhelmed at this point.
Jack: The Carter subplot continues to be my favorite, even though I think Beth is blowing the whole incident at the store out of proportion at this point. I also was curious as to why Beth chose September 28 as Rip's new birthday. Does that date have some significance? Beth doesn't do random things most of the time.
Jim: I for one am sick of seeing Taylor Sheridan. This show is suffering with it’s writing, editing of scenes and storylines this season. It’s just my opinion, but I believe Taylor’s many projects are causing Yellowstone to suffer.
Quite frankly if he wants to act like an arrogant asshole go create the Taylor Sheridan show. Don’t screw up Yellowstone.
Carissa Pavlica is the managing editor and a staff writer and critic for TV Fanatic. She's a member of the Critic's Choice Association, enjoys mentoring writers, conversing with cats, and passionately discussing the nuances of television and film with anyone who will listen. Follow her on Twitter and email her here at TV Fanatic.