Breaking Bad Review: "End Times" Comments (Page 3)
81 Comments
jmaddi
October 3rd, 2011 1:59 PM
@nimrod1313
nice explanation. now im starting to think maybe it was walt. but i cant bring myself to believe he would harm a little boy just to get jesse ti think it was gus. but desperate times call for desperate messures so it may be his whole master plan to get jesse on his side again. but now that his car bomb plan back fired, gus is def going to make things hard for jesse in the finale. and where mike?
David
October 3rd, 2011 1:04 PM
@nimrod1313
I've watched the insider video and he didn't say Gus didn't poison Brock. He's just putting things together - Jesse said "he was poisoned" yet he didn't react in his usual, angry, out-of-control way - he could tell something was amiss. He does say that Gus doesn't know exactly what's going on, the specifics of the situation, which does hint that he isn't the one who poisoned Brock, but on the other hand, Gus asking Jesse, "Who did it?" seemed very, very suspicious to me.
nimrod1313
October 3rd, 2011 12:32 PM
Chekhov's gun points to Murderer
Chekhov's gun is a literary technique whereby an apparently irrelevant element is introduced early in the story whose significance becomes clear later in the narrative. Well that’s what appears to be going on in Ep412 when Walt is spinning his gun. Walt spins the gun 3 times with the first two times having the gun point back at him. The third time the gun ends up pointing past Walt and into the background. Then the camera carefully shifts it’s angle to uncover that the gun is pointed at a lone potted plant. Then the camera does a close up on Walt’s face as his face shifts from defeat to where one can tell a glimmer of an idea is forming. So what appears to be an “irrelevant element” i.e. gun pointing at a plant is the birth of a desperate plan, the plant has reminded Walt of the risen ! In short Walt works out a plan to get Jesse to come to him and to get Jesse off of Gus’s side and back on his, Walt poisons Brock. And Walt
nimrod1313
October 3rd, 2011 12:28 PM
Gus wasn't using "Spidey-sense" if he didn't poison Brock. If he didn't poison Brock then he's wondering who would and why . The conclusion he'd come to is Walter and to draw him out in to the open ... so he'd deduce going back to car a bad idea. If you listen to BrBa "inside Ep412" video you see this is the case.
Chuck
October 3rd, 2011 12:20 PM
No way it was Walt. Walt was too wrapped in paranoia about attack on his own family to make such an elaborate plan during the time frame.
More likely Gus. His hesitation inparking structure was him putting pieces together. He is on his way back into hospital to forcibly bring Jesse with him
Ending will invovle Hank somehow in a way that does not implicate Walt or Jesse so season 5 has the main players around.
David
October 3rd, 2011 12:19 PM
Also, to everyone saying Brock took the cigarette and smoked it on his own, don't you remember Jesse debunking that theory? "The last time I saw Brock was last night. I had the cigarette with me this morning."
David
October 3rd, 2011 12:17 PM
"Sorry, but your 'better call Saul' conspiracy theory doesn't pass the laugh test."
Despite your naysaying, or more likely because of it, I'm going to stick with my theory of Saul pulling a Keyser Söze on everyone - Him or Walter Jr., AKA Flynn, AKA the Webmaster (for cancer donations), AKA the PT Cruiser with a CD player "for his 'tunes.'"
Dave
October 3rd, 2011 12:15 PM
I love your reviews and consider you almost always spot on -- that is, except for this one.
Gus realizing the trap is much more plausible than you give it credit for. When he came to visit Jesse in the hospital, Jesse was the most insubordinate since having come under Gus's alliance. This alone would have been concerning to Gus, but not necessarily revealing. But Jesse stating the boy had been "poisoned" was a very big deal. Right then I felt like Jesse was inadvertently hinting to Gus that he suspected some malice on someone's part, and he didn't offer up any details. Jesse didn't come off as though he was confiding in a friend and treated Gus very differently in that moment than we saw in the last few episodes.
If I'm Gus, I'm processing all of this on my way to the car and at a minimum, I'd be suspicious there was foul play coming (whether in the car itself or at some point after). Remember, in many respects, Gus is just a smarter, wiser version of Walt -- and we all know Walt
lilcjoy
October 3rd, 2011 11:48 AM
Eating food off of Teflon at to high a heat will give flu-like symptoms also. The kid stole the cigarette and smoked it on his own.
lilcjoy
October 3rd, 2011 11:46 AM
I say that Walt had his glasses on his forehead and although Gus stopped on instinct, he looked over and I am sure that he saw a glint off of Walt's glasses. Also, there were pigeons flying by which everyone knows spook easily.
jmaddi
October 3rd, 2011 10:35 AM
my thoughts on the poisoning. i dont think walt would kill achild seeing as it was HIM who ran over the thugs that killed the other little boy so that alone shows he wouldnt do something like that. second, we all know mike bugged walts home before and has them stuff to do it, so its not suprising if jesse's home is bugged or even walts condo. if u watch the gus/jesse dinner ep again, it makes sense that gus knew cause he let jesse so close to his food (knowing he could poison the food), but knew jesse would have to eat it too (really smart). this is probably where he got the idea to kill the cartel from, hence having all the back up blood in case he got poisoned. gus is smarter than walt. its clear by now. if u dont think so, then u really dont get that last scene in this episode. he thinks before he does anything and he knows when he's at risk. he lives that way and he wont get caught slipping by 2 amatuers.
Stuart Ross
October 3rd, 2011 9:30 AM
It was the smog monster pretending to be Jesse that gave the cigarette to the kid.
Nah I reckon the kid just snuck a cigarette from Jesse and because of all the paranoia goin round everyone is blamin everybody. This whole season has centred around paranoia.
jmaddi
October 3rd, 2011 8:38 AM
wow.
that is all.
John
October 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM
Why would Gus think someone was plotting to kill him? Are you serious? Just last week, he threatened to kill Walt's infant daughter. Hell, Walt has been plotting to kill Gus all season. It would be dumb if he didn't suspect anything, especially since Jesse tipped his hand by mentioning poison (go to the AMC Web site and watch the "Inside the Episode" feature--Giancarlo Esposito talks at length about this). And that's just Walt. There's also the matter of whatever is left of the Cartel. If I was Gus, I'd be almost as paranoid as Walt.
Scott
October 3rd, 2011 5:33 AM
I love how ambiguous this show can be. However, I feel pretty confident that Walt poisoned Brock. Walt was absent throughout much of the episode - I kept wondering when we'd see what he had been up to. When Jesse pointed the gun at Walt, I even believed it was Gus who had done it. However, now that I've seen the whole episode and thought it over, I'm pretty sure it was Walt.
First, it's too convenient that it was a child who was poisoned. Walt continues to remind Jesse that Gus is capable of murdering children. If Gus wanted to frame Walt, he didn't have to use a child. But if Walt wanted to frame Gus...
It also seems odd that we didn't see Walt for such a long period of time. Though that itself doesn't mean anything - it only adds ambiguity as to who the real poisoner is.
And what about Gus stopping before getting into his car. He seemed to be doing some pretty serious thinking. If Walt poisoned Brock, then Gus is just now piecing that together. Jesse tells Gus he knows Brock
sean
October 3rd, 2011 5:00 AM
1) The reason Jesse suspected Walt is because he was the only other person in the world that knew about the cigarette. In his frenzied state he jumped to that conclusion.
Because it's not something Walt would do, is why Jesse ultimately didn't kill him and that was Walt's defense with the gun to his head.
2) The reason Gus suspected something was wrong with the car was because he had framed Walt to look like he poisoned Brock and when Jesse didn't mention Walt as a suspect, or give the ok to kill Walt, Gus realized that Jesse may therefore suspect him.
Couple with the fact that Jesse insisted Gus go inside, and maybe the reflection of Walt's glasses, a bad feeling in general, it is totally plausible for Gus to be suspicious.
It's also been established that Gus is not only extremely intelligent, with a brilliance for elaborate, multi-layered schemes with every angle covered and 10 steps ahead, but he is also extremely cautious - "skittish... like a deer."
Maybe I'm just r
Dan
October 3rd, 2011 4:31 AM
When Jessy arrives at Saul's Office, he is being checked by the bodyguard, at the end you could see that his left hand is getting into his pocket, maybe taking the cigarette box and replacing it. Saul had already spoken with Walt and he could have been informed of the plan. The fact that Walt sees the plant and gets the idea maybe reminds him of the ricin, plus Walt knew about Gus sacrificing kids for his plans.
Steve
October 3rd, 2011 3:24 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who often mixes up Walt and Hank's name.
glasses
October 3rd, 2011 2:44 AM
I have no idea who did what to Brock, if anything was even malicious in the first place. Some may gripe, but I find the ambiguity right now to be great. There are a few good threads that can be resolved (or not) next week, so it just keeps me guessing and postulating to no end.
In my current state of mind, I think Walt had something to do with it. That look after the third spin of the gun... you could just see some nasty wheels turning. He goes from sitting outside, gun by his side, just waiting to go down swinging to being barricaded inside his house, paranoid out of his mind? No, that was a front. He has to sell the imminent threat of Gus' intent to Jesse. Sal getting ready to disappear... part of the plan? This is where this gets fun (another week of pure supposition): Walt calls Sal - what does Jesse value? Oh, Brock? Give him a taste. He gets sick. Get Sal to put a word in Jesse's ear about Gus' actions on Walt, and boom: Jesse is on Walt's side.
Of course this may not have
Daldude
October 3rd, 2011 2:30 AM
OK, first of all, during the confrontation with Walt, Jesse explicitly siad there was no way Braock could have gotten the cigarette by accident becasue he had checked for it that morning before going to the lab, so that theory is out. Second, the time it takes for somehting like ricin to work is probably quite variable, depending on the physiology of the victim, method of ingestion, etc. Third, if Gus did know about the poison cigarette (and I'll get to that in a second), then it would have been easy enough to take it at soem point earlier, and just put a regular cig upside down in Jesse's pack (hell, as thorough as Gus is, he might have even made sure the switched cig had a capsule with some harmless substance in it...in fact that would explain him giving Jesse opportunities to poison him even though he knew about it...). Finally, Gus wouldn't necessarily even have to use the cig to poison the boy. I'm sure he could get ricin on his own and if his intent was to frame Walt for it,
Walt
October 3rd, 2011 2:17 AM
I think Gus walking away from his car was very plausible. Gus has succeeded the last 20 years by thoroughly thinking things through and remaining exceedingly cautious.
As Gus approached his car, I think he realized he made a careless mistake by parking it in an isolated area and he did not want to take the chance that it had been tampered with. If you look back to the beginning of season 3 when Gus had just hired Walt, Gus invited Walt over for dinner and admitted to Walt that he made many mistakes when he was starting out. He also told Walt the golden rule he learned was "Never make the same mistake twice." Gus has been in business for 20 plus years and his experience told him something may not be right. In Gus' business, just about anything and everything is possible, why take a chance?
As to who poisoned Brock? It was too ambiguous to tell. Hopefully, the season finally ends well and doesn't have any silly holes in the plot.
Personally, I think Walt will meet a similar fat
fishfry
October 3rd, 2011 2:15 AM
I'm watching the 11pm (west coast time) rerun. Walt spins the gun twice and it points to him. Then he spins the gun and it points away from him ... the camera shows Walt's face as he shifts his eyes ... thinking ... planning.
Walt did it. Didn't give the kid ricin ... just gave him something to make him sick. There is no doubt at all that Walt hatched up a plan while spinning the gun. What the plan is, we don't know. But Walt's up to something. Gus didn't poison Brock.
johnny
October 3rd, 2011 2:12 AM
I'm still not getting why Jesse would JUMP to the conclusion that Walt would poison Brock....MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!... Gus?... I quess, but to manipulate Jesse into this RIDICULOUS theory??? I think they could have come up with a WAY MORE PLAUSIBLE storyline to get Walt and Jesse talking, then plotting, ( against Gus ).
johnny
October 3rd, 2011 1:57 AM
David,
Sorry, but your 'better call Saul' conspiracy theory doesn't pass the laugh test.
Jeff and eveyone for that matter,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Ricin in a little vile or container, making it kind of hard to accidentally smoke?
Rusty
October 3rd, 2011 1:56 AM
If you can buy that Gus poisoned the leadership of an entire cartel and escaped from Mexico, then what's so illogical about stealing a poisoned cigarette and poisoning a boy in order to frame Walt?
It made sense to me - not to mention the look on Gus' face the instant Jesse uttered the word "poison".
October 3rd, 2011 1:59 PM
@nimrod1313
nice explanation. now im starting to think maybe it was walt. but i cant bring myself to believe he would harm a little boy just to get jesse ti think it was gus. but desperate times call for desperate messures so it may be his whole master plan to get jesse on his side again. but now that his car bomb plan back fired, gus is def going to make things hard for jesse in the finale. and where mike?
October 3rd, 2011 1:04 PM
@nimrod1313
I've watched the insider video and he didn't say Gus didn't poison Brock. He's just putting things together - Jesse said "he was poisoned" yet he didn't react in his usual, angry, out-of-control way - he could tell something was amiss. He does say that Gus doesn't know exactly what's going on, the specifics of the situation, which does hint that he isn't the one who poisoned Brock, but on the other hand, Gus asking Jesse, "Who did it?" seemed very, very suspicious to me.
October 3rd, 2011 12:32 PM
Chekhov's gun points to Murderer
Chekhov's gun is a literary technique whereby an apparently irrelevant element is introduced early in the story whose significance becomes clear later in the narrative. Well that’s what appears to be going on in Ep412 when Walt is spinning his gun. Walt spins the gun 3 times with the first two times having the gun point back at him. The third time the gun ends up pointing past Walt and into the background. Then the camera carefully shifts it’s angle to uncover that the gun is pointed at a lone potted plant. Then the camera does a close up on Walt’s face as his face shifts from defeat to where one can tell a glimmer of an idea is forming. So what appears to be an “irrelevant element” i.e. gun pointing at a plant is the birth of a desperate plan, the plant has reminded Walt of the risen ! In short Walt works out a plan to get Jesse to come to him and to get Jesse off of Gus’s side and back on his, Walt poisons Brock. And Walt
October 3rd, 2011 12:28 PM
Gus wasn't using "Spidey-sense" if he didn't poison Brock. If he didn't poison Brock then he's wondering who would and why . The conclusion he'd come to is Walter and to draw him out in to the open ... so he'd deduce going back to car a bad idea. If you listen to BrBa "inside Ep412" video you see this is the case.
October 3rd, 2011 12:20 PM
No way it was Walt. Walt was too wrapped in paranoia about attack on his own family to make such an elaborate plan during the time frame.
More likely Gus. His hesitation inparking structure was him putting pieces together. He is on his way back into hospital to forcibly bring Jesse with him
Ending will invovle Hank somehow in a way that does not implicate Walt or Jesse so season 5 has the main players around.
October 3rd, 2011 12:19 PM
Also, to everyone saying Brock took the cigarette and smoked it on his own, don't you remember Jesse debunking that theory? "The last time I saw Brock was last night. I had the cigarette with me this morning."
October 3rd, 2011 12:17 PM
"Sorry, but your 'better call Saul' conspiracy theory doesn't pass the laugh test."
Despite your naysaying, or more likely because of it, I'm going to stick with my theory of Saul pulling a Keyser Söze on everyone - Him or Walter Jr., AKA Flynn, AKA the Webmaster (for cancer donations), AKA the PT Cruiser with a CD player "for his 'tunes.'"
October 3rd, 2011 12:15 PM
I love your reviews and consider you almost always spot on -- that is, except for this one.
Gus realizing the trap is much more plausible than you give it credit for. When he came to visit Jesse in the hospital, Jesse was the most insubordinate since having come under Gus's alliance. This alone would have been concerning to Gus, but not necessarily revealing. But Jesse stating the boy had been "poisoned" was a very big deal. Right then I felt like Jesse was inadvertently hinting to Gus that he suspected some malice on someone's part, and he didn't offer up any details. Jesse didn't come off as though he was confiding in a friend and treated Gus very differently in that moment than we saw in the last few episodes.
If I'm Gus, I'm processing all of this on my way to the car and at a minimum, I'd be suspicious there was foul play coming (whether in the car itself or at some point after). Remember, in many respects, Gus is just a smarter, wiser version of Walt -- and we all know Walt
October 3rd, 2011 11:48 AM
Eating food off of Teflon at to high a heat will give flu-like symptoms also. The kid stole the cigarette and smoked it on his own.
October 3rd, 2011 11:46 AM
I say that Walt had his glasses on his forehead and although Gus stopped on instinct, he looked over and I am sure that he saw a glint off of Walt's glasses. Also, there were pigeons flying by which everyone knows spook easily.
October 3rd, 2011 10:35 AM
my thoughts on the poisoning. i dont think walt would kill achild seeing as it was HIM who ran over the thugs that killed the other little boy so that alone shows he wouldnt do something like that. second, we all know mike bugged walts home before and has them stuff to do it, so its not suprising if jesse's home is bugged or even walts condo. if u watch the gus/jesse dinner ep again, it makes sense that gus knew cause he let jesse so close to his food (knowing he could poison the food), but knew jesse would have to eat it too (really smart). this is probably where he got the idea to kill the cartel from, hence having all the back up blood in case he got poisoned. gus is smarter than walt. its clear by now. if u dont think so, then u really dont get that last scene in this episode. he thinks before he does anything and he knows when he's at risk. he lives that way and he wont get caught slipping by 2 amatuers.
October 3rd, 2011 9:30 AM
It was the smog monster pretending to be Jesse that gave the cigarette to the kid.
Nah I reckon the kid just snuck a cigarette from Jesse and because of all the paranoia goin round everyone is blamin everybody. This whole season has centred around paranoia.
October 3rd, 2011 8:38 AM
wow.
that is all.
October 3rd, 2011 6:07 AM
Why would Gus think someone was plotting to kill him? Are you serious? Just last week, he threatened to kill Walt's infant daughter. Hell, Walt has been plotting to kill Gus all season. It would be dumb if he didn't suspect anything, especially since Jesse tipped his hand by mentioning poison (go to the AMC Web site and watch the "Inside the Episode" feature--Giancarlo Esposito talks at length about this). And that's just Walt. There's also the matter of whatever is left of the Cartel. If I was Gus, I'd be almost as paranoid as Walt.
October 3rd, 2011 5:33 AM
I love how ambiguous this show can be. However, I feel pretty confident that Walt poisoned Brock. Walt was absent throughout much of the episode - I kept wondering when we'd see what he had been up to. When Jesse pointed the gun at Walt, I even believed it was Gus who had done it. However, now that I've seen the whole episode and thought it over, I'm pretty sure it was Walt.
First, it's too convenient that it was a child who was poisoned. Walt continues to remind Jesse that Gus is capable of murdering children. If Gus wanted to frame Walt, he didn't have to use a child. But if Walt wanted to frame Gus...
It also seems odd that we didn't see Walt for such a long period of time. Though that itself doesn't mean anything - it only adds ambiguity as to who the real poisoner is.
And what about Gus stopping before getting into his car. He seemed to be doing some pretty serious thinking. If Walt poisoned Brock, then Gus is just now piecing that together. Jesse tells Gus he knows Brock
October 3rd, 2011 5:00 AM
1) The reason Jesse suspected Walt is because he was the only other person in the world that knew about the cigarette. In his frenzied state he jumped to that conclusion.
Because it's not something Walt would do, is why Jesse ultimately didn't kill him and that was Walt's defense with the gun to his head.
2) The reason Gus suspected something was wrong with the car was because he had framed Walt to look like he poisoned Brock and when Jesse didn't mention Walt as a suspect, or give the ok to kill Walt, Gus realized that Jesse may therefore suspect him.
Couple with the fact that Jesse insisted Gus go inside, and maybe the reflection of Walt's glasses, a bad feeling in general, it is totally plausible for Gus to be suspicious.
It's also been established that Gus is not only extremely intelligent, with a brilliance for elaborate, multi-layered schemes with every angle covered and 10 steps ahead, but he is also extremely cautious - "skittish... like a deer."
Maybe I'm just r
October 3rd, 2011 4:31 AM
When Jessy arrives at Saul's Office, he is being checked by the bodyguard, at the end you could see that his left hand is getting into his pocket, maybe taking the cigarette box and replacing it. Saul had already spoken with Walt and he could have been informed of the plan. The fact that Walt sees the plant and gets the idea maybe reminds him of the ricin, plus Walt knew about Gus sacrificing kids for his plans.
October 3rd, 2011 3:24 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who often mixes up Walt and Hank's name.
October 3rd, 2011 2:44 AM
I have no idea who did what to Brock, if anything was even malicious in the first place. Some may gripe, but I find the ambiguity right now to be great. There are a few good threads that can be resolved (or not) next week, so it just keeps me guessing and postulating to no end.
In my current state of mind, I think Walt had something to do with it. That look after the third spin of the gun... you could just see some nasty wheels turning. He goes from sitting outside, gun by his side, just waiting to go down swinging to being barricaded inside his house, paranoid out of his mind? No, that was a front. He has to sell the imminent threat of Gus' intent to Jesse. Sal getting ready to disappear... part of the plan? This is where this gets fun (another week of pure supposition): Walt calls Sal - what does Jesse value? Oh, Brock? Give him a taste. He gets sick. Get Sal to put a word in Jesse's ear about Gus' actions on Walt, and boom: Jesse is on Walt's side.
Of course this may not have
October 3rd, 2011 2:30 AM
OK, first of all, during the confrontation with Walt, Jesse explicitly siad there was no way Braock could have gotten the cigarette by accident becasue he had checked for it that morning before going to the lab, so that theory is out. Second, the time it takes for somehting like ricin to work is probably quite variable, depending on the physiology of the victim, method of ingestion, etc. Third, if Gus did know about the poison cigarette (and I'll get to that in a second), then it would have been easy enough to take it at soem point earlier, and just put a regular cig upside down in Jesse's pack (hell, as thorough as Gus is, he might have even made sure the switched cig had a capsule with some harmless substance in it...in fact that would explain him giving Jesse opportunities to poison him even though he knew about it...). Finally, Gus wouldn't necessarily even have to use the cig to poison the boy. I'm sure he could get ricin on his own and if his intent was to frame Walt for it,
October 3rd, 2011 2:17 AM
I think Gus walking away from his car was very plausible. Gus has succeeded the last 20 years by thoroughly thinking things through and remaining exceedingly cautious.
As Gus approached his car, I think he realized he made a careless mistake by parking it in an isolated area and he did not want to take the chance that it had been tampered with. If you look back to the beginning of season 3 when Gus had just hired Walt, Gus invited Walt over for dinner and admitted to Walt that he made many mistakes when he was starting out. He also told Walt the golden rule he learned was "Never make the same mistake twice." Gus has been in business for 20 plus years and his experience told him something may not be right. In Gus' business, just about anything and everything is possible, why take a chance?
As to who poisoned Brock? It was too ambiguous to tell. Hopefully, the season finally ends well and doesn't have any silly holes in the plot.
Personally, I think Walt will meet a similar fat
October 3rd, 2011 2:15 AM
I'm watching the 11pm (west coast time) rerun. Walt spins the gun twice and it points to him. Then he spins the gun and it points away from him ... the camera shows Walt's face as he shifts his eyes ... thinking ... planning.
Walt did it. Didn't give the kid ricin ... just gave him something to make him sick. There is no doubt at all that Walt hatched up a plan while spinning the gun. What the plan is, we don't know. But Walt's up to something. Gus didn't poison Brock.
October 3rd, 2011 2:12 AM
I'm still not getting why Jesse would JUMP to the conclusion that Walt would poison Brock....MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE!... Gus?... I quess, but to manipulate Jesse into this RIDICULOUS theory??? I think they could have come up with a WAY MORE PLAUSIBLE storyline to get Walt and Jesse talking, then plotting, ( against Gus ).
October 3rd, 2011 1:57 AM
David,
Sorry, but your 'better call Saul' conspiracy theory doesn't pass the laugh test.
Jeff and eveyone for that matter,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Ricin in a little vile or container, making it kind of hard to accidentally smoke?
October 3rd, 2011 1:56 AM
If you can buy that Gus poisoned the leadership of an entire cartel and escaped from Mexico, then what's so illogical about stealing a poisoned cigarette and poisoning a boy in order to frame Walt?
It made sense to me - not to mention the look on Gus' face the instant Jesse uttered the word "poison".