Anitraward1

Heller shows his expertise by over lapping historical philosophy on top of modern day society and showing a comparative mindset. Old philosophical mindsets that still have validity today. To watch it play out against a modern back set is utterly intriguing and shows Heller brilliant expertise. Baker shows his expertise in how he plays this character. Now I understand why he said it was so difficult. For this alone, I will always love this series. Heller has set the bar really high. There has never been anything like this in television, ever. Rationalgal, I'm with you on this one. I wonder if they set out to do this or if it just occurred based on the storyline? Sort of like, the discovery of electricity!

Anitraward1

I'm going to build on what you said about Jane and what I wrote earlier down the page. Jane was a con man, aka a criminal. Small time in comparison but making a good living. His arrogance led him into playing around with things he had no clue about. Jane was penny wise and dollar foolish. He mistakenly took his honed SKILL SET for INTELLIGENCE. Karen Cross said, even I know better then to taunt a serial killer on the air. Lisbon called it a gift. Jane is intelligent and he has common sense, but he doesn't use common sense very often. What Jane did was play in another criminal's territory. It was like mobsters stepping on each other or rival gangs trying to get the one up at the expense of the other. We know what will happen but we can see Jane clearly did not. Jane did not know he was playing with real human being monsters. It was all a game for him. Jane was use to beating house wives and distraught people out of the money. People who were pretty much harmless. His arrogance led him to believe that this killer was just as harmless. That's why Red John left him the note. It was to inform Jane that he was now playing with the big boys. Something he was not prepared to deal with or had any idea even existed. This is where he knocked on the DEVIL'S DOOR and was let into hell. This is where Heller uses the philosophy. This situation for Jane while it was real was also surreal. It was a nightmare-ish hell and his eyes were wide open. Why did Jane have a nervous breakdown? Because never in his naive mind could anything like this ever happen. He awoke to the reality that there are real live monsters living in the world with him. That these monsters are capable of some horrendous things. This leads you right into that philosophical place. You question GOD, you question your SOCIETY, you question JUDGEMENT, you question JUSTICE, you question LIFE and DEATH. YOU QUESTION THE SPIRITUALITY OF MAN. AND THEN YOU LIVE WITH THE REALITY OF IT. Then you become angry at the realization that anything can happen to you at anytime. What can save you form the evil lurking in the darkness waiting to strike. Belief in a God, belief in the justice system, belief in the kindness of man! NONE OF THESE THINGS SAVED JANE OR HIS FAMILY. SO WHY BELIEVE IN ANY OF IT? This event made Jane question his own existence. What is life about? Who will save me or anyone? How do I live past this? What will I do if I do live past this? Sophie Miller, you can give up and die or you can fight. What did Jane do? Jane summoned up every thing he had left which was anger and hatred. He collected himself up for a fight with the unknown. The philosophical portion plays very well here. It even has a air of mystery. Heller over lapped the philosophy to show a historical mindset that still plays itself out in a modern society. This is brilliantly written in respects to the storyline.

Anitraward1

No pun intended but that's deep.

Anitraward1

Here's what I think Heller did in using ideologies. Jane's character is an atheist. His persona is that he cons suckers who believe that there is something more to life then what he believes in. Jane's belief was there is no right or wrong and that things just happen. Jane doesn't believe in the justice system, only personal justice and people get what they deserve. Wouldn't this then be an oxymoron for Jane? Jane was playing games with a serial killer and the serial killer did what serial killers do. Then the killer played games with Jane for over ten years. Can you see the irony here? There is also a bit of dark humor here as well. What did Abbott tell Jane? He said, he has seen many great con's go down because they started believing in their own con. Isn't this what happened to Jane initially? He believed he was going to get a free ride on the back of a serial killer and was destroyed for it. His family was killed, he was institutionalized and basically lost everything he had. He ensnared himself in a trap of his own doings. Jane did learn a lesson and has been on the right road ever since. However he now needs to stop playing games with criminals before he finds himself back in the same situation. Jane has observation skills, and so do detectives, CBI agents and FBI agents. It's time for Jane to grow up and get a new profession and follow the rules. His game playing endangers everyone he works with. Haffner warned that he has angered some pretty powerful people and that they are out to get him. Why? The con! Even Columbo maintained his professionalism. Jane needs to put on a badge or get out of police business, it's not a game.

Anitraward1

In all actuality, all Jane was fighting was criminality with personal ties to it. Nothing mystical about crime. Jane was fighting a psychological battle as well. He won by being able to declare his love for Lisbon. You could say he had a breakdown of sorts. A breaking down of the walls that kept him in hell. Jane lived in a dark place. Lisbon forced him to break down the wall and let the light in again.

Anitraward1

What if Heller meant Red John would always represent death for Jane. Red John killed Jane's family and Jane has killed him twice. So we can see here that Jane was involved with death, a lot. He even wanted to commit suicide because of Red John and his doings. That statement would make sense in this kind of reality. Jane lived in a small world, the biggest part of Jane's world was Red John and I can see how Heller's statement would then fit and be accurate. Jane's life for ten years consisted of Red John's philosophies, brutalities and death. Jane submerged himself in this environment. Because outside of Jane's world and the world of his victims, Red John was just a notorious serial killer and nothing more. The state of California didn't put out any statewide alerts, no one really knew about Red John except for the police and Jane. Red John killed a news reporter, you'd think that would shake people up but it didn't. Red John was really contained to his 28 victims, Jane, law enforcement and Visualize.

Anitraward1

Here's where my issues come in, death while it is real in a physical way, is not sinister and it does not leave a smiley face. The nature of death is not some scary monster that rapes, tortures and kills women. Death does not chase you around and play games with you. Death does not make phone calls. Death does not kidnap people. Death does not brainwash people. Death does not drink tea or wear clothing. Death does not ask you to be friends. I don't think Stiles was referring to death when he referred to Red John. I've never heard of death having a mistress. My point is we can not reduce the physical nature of what has gone on in the series to a philosophical euphorism. Death is not a free floating entity that hounds people. I understand that we all have to die but not a the hands of a serial killer. This can not be what Heller meant. The insidious brutally of Red John does not represent death. It represents depravity. If we were to all die by Red John's representation of death, he wouldn't have anyone to kill. I get the ideology behind death but not in this sense and not in how Red John was portrayed. How can you reason the actions of a serial killer like Red John to a notion of ideology? It's like saying the BOOGIE MAN is REAL! Or THE DEVIL DID IT! Red John was a real person, doing real insidious shit to a lot of people. You can not reduce the physical nature of Red John's actions to ideology.
What we saw throughout the series was a well organized group of individuals killing and and talking about a grand plan. This is a irrefutable fact and can not be diminished to ideology. How Red John saw death is how he saw death. What he did and what is still going on is something entirely different.

Anitraward1

Ya know what, NOPE, NOPE, NO! There is no way a goof like McAllister befuddled the CBI, FBI and Homeland Security. Every time I try to put this thing to bed, it won't go to sleep! What they wrote is just not that simple. They can go that route but we will all know what really happened. This, for me can not be totally explained away in some philosophical fashion. Some of it, yes. Definitely yes, most of it, not a chance. They have some tall explaining to do, they just do. If they don't, it is what it is!

Anitraward1

@Rationalgal, you are probably right. if we take a page from the mentalist play book, it won't look at all like what has been suggested throughout the series. All the mythology and philosophy was used as a garnish to push the series along and add some mystery while the Red John arc was moving. If this is the case then there are no plot holes. It was just a
device used to maintain interest. The series has always been written in a ambiguous and open ended style. If Red John represents the intangible, all that he did would then represent a manipulated slip from reality. That all he did was twist the reality of the people who followed him. We saw as viewers what he made them believe. His followers needed something to believe in, so he gave it to them. A mystical place in a place which allowed them to escape their own personal reality while they lived in reality. They were all professional and functioned normally except for their escapism. So to them it appears to be mystical and they have been led into believing they were a partof some grand plan. Dogma for lost souls. For the viewer it looked like exactly what it was, criminal activity at the expense of weak minded gullible people who needed an escape from their personal lives. If this is the case then it is truly over and McAllister was the right person. In this scenario everything fits, no plot holes or dangling threads. Just some sad people who got caught up. All the minions just Rebecca's. People who were so alone and thirsty that they would believe anything. That would be the reality of it and nothing more. Jane would also be a Rebecca because he was thirsty for fame, status and wealth. He needed to be somebody. He came up living in a trailer community of cons. A wanderer on the out skirts of society. He needed and wanted to be more then what he was. You can take the man out of the trailer park but you can't take the trailer park out of the man. This is why Jane remained a con. The reality for him was he was exactly what he knew himself to be. He tried to have a dream but dreams and schemes don't work well together. He hated himself for trying to be something that he wasn't and dragging his family down that whole with him. His redemption will be realizing that, that's life. Jane never set out to get his family killed, it just happened. Even as smart as he is, he too was caught up in the Red John dogma like everyone else. In the end he lost ten years of his life and a family. Killing Red John didn't change a thing. So of they go this way, they will deal with the list in a small way and then Jane will get on with his life, THE END!

Anitraward1

I think mostly this will be a residual effects clean up. I do believe the way it was presented, that McAllister was the serial killing pervert that was presented. What I also believe is since they were all below the dirt line, what McAllister was doing within the association was par for the course. He was just the most recognized. It didn't really matter what kind of dirt they were doing, just as long as their dirt didn't expose the group. I believe the clean up will fall on the upper echelons. The branches above the banal neanderthalish, psychologically mutated, mindless minions that were in the streets acting out their uncontrollable urges. What we were presented with were mindless, empty headed foot soliders. The are's is to do or die group. The lost souls that got caught with their hidden perverse cravings hanging out. The easily programmed and controllable murder troupe, the trojan horse. The intellect behind this force, the enlighten ones would never descend to the depths of their minions. The minions are a necessary evil to combat those who would seek to destroy their divine vision. Those who are to shallow to see or seek the light of wisdom. Only a select few, the ones who are gifted enough to see the divine path shall ever guide the people. They sit high and look low with the divine revelations of the future of mankind. Okay........... the mastermind, the string puller (s) they all think stupid shit like this and they would neeeever dirty their spiritual hands with murder. The enlightened thing to do is to get someone else to do it. A few murdered outsiders is just collateral damage and doesn't out weigh man's enlightened future. This is where the hocus pocus comes in. The divine powers that be are sitting on top and they hand down their divine judgements. Red John was the first veil they hid behind. When Jane got close they offered up the second veil which was the Blake Association and McAllister as Red John. Who would think to look any further? Smoke and mirrors, they both reflected back on each other. Now the little pea brained enlightened demon sitting at the top has uncontrollable urges too, but of course they are of a divine nature. It will not take long for this anal retentive individual obsessed with power pokes his or her head out again under a different auspice.