@ Rationalgal, the Kirkland's are your area of expertise. I was watching season 5 and noticed something. I think you are right about us seeing two Kirkland's. I'm almost positive that there is a distinction between the Kirkland with the hair on his face and the one that doesn't. The one with the hair on his face is more relaxed and his hair is less slicked down. He seems more relaxed, normal. The Kirkland without the facial hair seems stiffer, less relaxed and paler in skin tone. The one with the facial hair is not the one that met with Lisbon for coffee. This is the one that shook Jane's hand. But is not the one in the limo with Alexia Schultz. Now I know we have some time differences but they don't make sense later on in the series. So why is the unstable Kirkland looking for his brother? What I find more interesting is that they both claimed to work for Homeland Security. The unstable Kirkland, the one Without facial hair was in the cabin of his twin Michael. We're we seeing Michael, the one abused by his father? Were these two working together until one went off the rails? They are both still too young to be the string puller but seem to be pivotal as far as the Red John storyline goes. So according to the storyline he is still out there. So what does this mean? These twins were incerted in season 5, so there must be some importance. The question is what?
@Rationalgal, I think we have tapped into the pulse of this show. Is there anything we left out besides the ending?
I agree 100% !
Rationalgal, you're the shit, you totally get it.
Excellent, excellent summation.
I have always had an issue with the term damaged the way it is used in the series for Jane and Lisbon. They seemed to make a point of it. Mashburn and Le Roache used it with negative connotations. I can see where both of these characters may have been in unfortunate circumstances but they have done well. Lisbon, especially, does not exhibit any of the symptoms that might be found in a individual that came from an abusive environment. So in using the term damaged intensity for Lisbon, it actually shows up as the opposite in her character. Then when you look at all the other characters that have been around her, it shows her to the most normal. As much as Jane has been through, he is far better off then most of the characters he has been around as well. So I'm thinking they used that term in the manner that they did to point out labeling. Aside from creative license, these two are very normal.
Rationalgal, you are just keeping it up, aren't you?!😃 I am a believer, I believe in God. I, like you being an atheist and your belief in it, see God's proof everywhere. I don't believe in psychics or any hocus pocus foolishness. I don't necessarily believe in religious boxes, but I do understand the necessity for them. who was by Jane's side? It was Lisbon's faith in a higher power. Without Lisbon Jane would have failed or been dead. So here we have to beliefs systems working side by side. This is where Heller' s use of ambiguity and philosophy work brilliantly. Was it divine intervention or just the causality of life? And arguments debate throughout the ages. This is how Heller used most of the philosophy we have been discussing. He created levels of intertwined infrastructure that had to be unraveled to see what he was getting at. Heller's writes had to be broken down and basically decoded to understand what the hell he was doing. This guy is deep and I appreciate him. Someday I hope somebody really sees what he and Baker really did. These guys deserve a humanitarian award. You have to know your history to know what this whole premise is about. I hope that one day I can meet Heller and Baker to discuss this show. I'm not a stary eyed fan but I just can't get over the effort and intellect that was put into this series. I'm actually inspired by it to tell the truth of it. I'm not sure how I feel about that either. It was tv, the dumbest form of entertainment on the planet.
Jane didn't have time to go back to school and now he had Angela to take of. He wanted a normal life for the both of them. His circumstance caused him to work on the fringes on society while he shielded his wife and daughter. Jane wanted everything he didn't have growing up. He had a wife and a mother figure to his child. He was a loving and caring husband and father. He was the bread winner and protector all while living on the fringes. All while having been shut out of the life he came from and the life he wanted. He became arrogant because he seemingly beat both of them and had been able to beat back his father's words a bit. He was happy and had the life he dreamt of. But Angela knew what Jane was doing in the streets to make them happy. She didn't care because it was business for Jane and nothing more. Angela was his voice of reason because she knew the dangers that went with it. They had enough, he proved his point as far as she was concerned. Jane couldn't see that because he needed to be somebody, he had always been a nobody. WHO ARE YOU, HUH? NOBODY. This is why Red John kept taking Jane home, he wanted to pound into his head his roots. To say this is where your from clown, you ain't shit. Red John said, YOU DON'T KNOW ME, YOU DIDN'T KNOW ME. WHO ARE YOU? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE? THAT'S WHY YOUR FAMILY IS DEAD, YOU ARROGANT BASTARD. YOU'RE A NOBODY. When jane was on the boat with Crystal he said, I knew it was you because you wanted me. Jane said that because he thinks is a nobody. A piece of garbage, a criminal. He didn't like normalcy because he wasn't raised in a normal society, so he spits at it at every chance he gets, even though that's what he really wants and wanted. Jane has been deprived of love and the physical touch of its embrace. That's how Erica almost got to him. She weakened him for a moment. Erica knew men and knew Jane. Jane's breakdown while he was embarrassed of it really empowered him. He has been mentally where most people will never go and he survived. Does he care what people think of him? Yes, and it fuels his self hatred. When Jane said he was fighting his demons, he was fighting for his life. He was fighting all those things his life was and wasn't. All the things he did or didn't do. He hated himself before he met Angela and more so after his tragedy. He used his intelligence as a sword and shield to fight life. The bravado we see out of Jane is only for self preservation. We have seen Jane grow throughout the series. It's just like in the karate kid, wax on, wax off. Now Lisbon will show him, he has overcome his ills and have been working a solid profession for over ten years and that he is as normal as can be.
One of my biggest things with this show was to know what Jane's mindset was. In thinking back on the series, I think I'm just about there. I wanted to know the psychology and driving force behind the character. It has been a bit of a mystery until I thought about the scene with Jane and Hightower in the hotel room. Hightower was holding a gun on Jane and Jane said, there is no one here except me and my demons and they aren't going to hurt you. So could you please put the gun away. Jane uses the plural form of the word demon which indicates that he is battling more then just Red John. This is where I then understand his character based on his behavior throughout the series. I wanted to know what is at the heart of this character outside of his tragedy. Who is he really and why does he seems mysterious. I think I may have found it. Jane was raised in an unfortunate environment and situation. He lived on the out skirts of society. His family was of lowly means and criminal. They were shunned by society and in so cases rightly so. Jane was raised up believing that how they lived was right. Jane was kept away from a traditional societal up bringing. They were nomadic, tribal and lived by their own governing. Le Roache, you have a brilliant mind and there's no telling what you could have been if you weren't so damaged. Jane's lifestyle was one of work, probably from a very early age. He probably didn't have much of a childhood. His environment and the way his father raised him probably didn't afford him much emotional or physical love. He had no protective love because he's been separated from his family and placed in the states custody. A very unforgiving and uncontrolled environment, especially for a young boy. This is a survival of the fittest environment. He's a bit of a womanizer because he was raised only by a man's point of view. At the young age of 15 he discovered part of who he was. Fleecing a dying gril wasn't him. But he was ok with fleecing an able bodied mark, it's all he knew. He also knew he didn't want the life his father planned for him and found the same thing in common with a girl within his own community. His father made him feel guilty by telling him how hard it was to raise him alone. His father made him feel like he owed him something and at the same time he also made him feel like an indentured servant, a mark. He lived in a dog eat dog environment. He was a good son as long as he produced and gave into his father's criminality. Jane lived a life of cause and effect, not right or wrong. He had no standards for it. That's why he says there is no right or wrong and things just happen. It goes along with things are just or unjust and the consequence of that was street justice. After he and Angela got away from carney life, he realized he did not have the skills to like normally in society. He never went to a school and did not possess what society required of him. He probably did try to fit in but was shunned by the very people he wanted to fit in with. So he shunned them back and proceeded to fleecing the shit of those stupid arrogant marks. It was as his father said, you can either be one of them or you can beat them at the own game. Well.....since he couldn't get in.........
Heller shows his expertise by over lapping historical philosophy on top of modern day society and showing a comparative mindset. Old philosophical mindsets that still have validity today. To watch it play out against a modern back set is utterly intriguing and shows Heller brilliant expertise. Baker shows his expertise in how he plays this character. Now I understand why he said it was so difficult. For this alone, I will always love this series. Heller has set the bar really high. There has never been anything like this in television, ever. Rationalgal, I'm with you on this one. I wonder if they set out to do this or if it just occurred based on the storyline? Sort of like, the discovery of electricity!
Sign up for our
and receive the latest tv news delivered to your inbox for
© 2014 TV Fanatic
TV Fanatic Plus
Sign up for our daily newsletter to receive personalized television news for