Comments by black white and red all over it (Page 7)

151. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 3:34 PM
     
     I guess I didn't really back off the onslaught at the writers at all, I just added to it. Heh, I'll say this; their ability to portray Jane has been very good. They've done a great job creating an antagonizing, charming, addictive character while integrating the idea that he has a dark side and goes by his own definition of right and wrong and his own self motives and laughs at the law and its intimidating presence. That's very hard to do, create someone with such a boyish aura and charm who is so deceitful and willing to go to any length. That is the basis of why this show is successful. Patrick Jane and his charm are what the show relies on almost single handedly to drive it through many of those filler case of the week episodes they have in between Red John story lines.

152. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 3:26 PM
     
     And I guess that's the problem, the story archs themselves aren't as big a problem as I might have thought the more I looked back, its just they are so repetitive and Bruno looks at the idea of showing what RJ is about and how he operates, thinks and his style for something that should just be done out of force and cramming it down our throats at the very end just to say it's there. There are shows built around a man vs the bad guy arch but the focus is often towards the bad guy's side and watching his side work and relating and understanding them. It's just a problem in priorities and need for ratings, I guess.

153. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 3:21 PM
     
     But we never have gotten any insight into that past, anything into what makes RJ friends RJ friends in terms of their lifestyle and past. We have never seen scenes really of RJ friends working together and we haven't seen alot of scenes directly of RJ moles "moling", doing things deceptively and behind everybody's back in their own world. We don't know anything about that world. All we see at the end is these troubled criminals get caught doing a variety of things and it goes back to the same pt of just showing how powerful RJ is. Its too easy to associate all these moles as one. It's an issue of quantity over quality to insert my favorite cliche. There is too much of a mole presence in the CBI, but the show has designed it so everybody we see on RJ's side is either directly in law enforcement or directly antagonizes Jane or some other character. We don't see the moles interacting, we don't know anything about the other side, the RJ side, and how they live and their greater goal.

154. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 3:16 PM
     
     the writers knew when the introduced him and Visualize they were going to be a big part of this RJ theme. But the pt was to only introduce them and show what potential influence they might have and most importantly throw off viewers, intrigue them, and make them think all at the same time. If you want to say they could have brought that idea back into play more as a general idea of giving more RJ information, that's fine and that's a separate argument, but that leads to the bigger pt in that the show has introduced too many elements that are far too similar. Mashburn, Stiles, Hafner, O'Laughlin, Kristina, whomever else you want to add, they all kind of serve the same kind of purpose in many ways. Add drama to the RJ storyline with short term stories the show doesn't really have any interest in expanding or can't because of the nature of them. It's all about the idea that these are current threats who have had muddled, troubled pasts.

155. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 3:10 PM
     
     We'll agree to disagree about the plausibility of Stiles knowing RJ, I get whatever one is saying but it just is blatantly flawed in my humble opinion. As the person who brought up the problems in the writing a couple weeks ago that kind of lead a entourage of criticism of the writers, I feel kind of bad here. We could go on and on about the problems with the writers, we could rank the biggest problems in the story if you wanted to and there would be alot of them, but I'll back off my onslaught a bit and say this: some of these holes aren't really holes. Shows have to be selective in what they pursue. I never saw that big a problem with the Kristina storyline back then for ex, there just wasn't that much else to show. The pt was to show the power of Red John and the unique ways he can expand his influence. And the purpose of Stiles was to draw an aura of mystery about the RJ plot, add a dimension to it but really just introduce it.

156. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 8:41 AM
     
     and arrogance wouldn't take kindly to somebody attacking them and directly insulting them with the cherry on top arrogantly putting a smiley face on their barn. @Feint has an interesting idea that RJ started killing because that was part of Visualize's ritual and message, and if that were true, then it would make sense the whole cover up they've had of RJ and dissociating themselves from him. Still, there's more to it than that and that'd be too easy of a conclusion for the writers. I'm also not totally sold that Stiles freed Lorelei out of prison simply as a power move. We know he knows alot about RJ and we know RJ wouldn't take kindly to somebody controlling one of his top friends at their own choice and releasing her from prison into the wild where she could do anything(RJ has always been protective and on the alert for those ready to give him up). Not as confident about this one, but itt's kind of hard to believe RJ had nothing to do with that.

157. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 8:35 AM
     
     @mimi makes a good point and really its a good way to show what I was saying earlier; its impossible for that smiley face to be on their for 20+years without anybody knowing. The priest knew about it and talked pretty openly. And Visualize isn't stupid, they know about Red John(stiles made that obvious). There's no way they haven't connected the dots, and they know about RJ's personal life, his life before a serial killer. They have tons of information about him and know when the killing happened. When somebody murders people on one of your farms than arrogantly puts a blood smiley face on it, it grabs your attention and you don't just say "wow, I guess that kind of stuff happens, kids these days". You look into and see who the hell would do something like that at the bare minimum. Right now, RJs a manipulative monster who could outwit anybody, but that wasn't necessarily the case 25 years ago. He was subject to Visualize and its power and surely an organization that has so much pride and vanity as Visualize wouldn't take kindly to somebody directly attacking and challenging them like RJ did.

158. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 12:52 AM
     
     You have some good points but still, I just can't see how this is plausible. Some leave and are not heard from again; not someone who is suspected of putting bloody smiley faces and someone who people think killed 3(it doesn't really matter if RJ killed them or not, the Priest, probably amongst many others, thought he did and that was probably the narrative/legend). There's just no way Stiles never connected the dots between all the red smiley faces amongst other things. He is a dictator, he can get whatever he wants, he has all the information at his hand. He could easily find who RJ was(and you can bet he wanted to find someone who made a mark on the farm like RJ). The only thing that makes me pause at all is how the Priest so nonchalantly talked about the smiley face and how he described talking to people who thought they knew who murdered him. Odd, but still, this is a pretty big stretch, although like I said before, this is entertainment, nothing really would surprise me.

159. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/29/2013 12:06 AM
     
     I just don't see how a criminal can go through Visualize, a criminal who's had such fame and is so well known, and nobody in Visualize who personalizes themselves with their people so well, to not know him. For a group that keeps lists of all its people, its just hard to see any situation where they wouldn't know who RJ was. This is the type of organization with an overzealous manipulation style, one who wouldn't just let one of their followers do something like this and not fight back viciously. This guy has built a life building off connections and other people, and its not like no one in Visualize forgot who he was. People don't just say "oh 3 murders, it happens, kids these days". But this is entertainment, and there are lots of things which don't add up, it wouldn't shock me either. I bring up because that would be one ex where the clear gap in storyline and things not adding up would be a real problem and hurt the show because its just not realistic.

160. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 10:23 PM
     
     @Watcher: You sure its only 9 left? Every other season has been 24. I know itunes said there would be 22 episodes if you google it, but that was made back in september and they said number of episodes may very. That would be unfortunate if they cut off 2, and there's no reason to either, the only time shows cut off seasons early is to let a new show on. Your not fitting a new show in that 2 episode vacated slot.
     What'll btw be interesting to see if they keep having episodes where Stiles is a major factor without him actually showing up. I'm not sure if they were able to sign him on again, but it was interesting they had no fear integrating him last night without having him appear.

161. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 9:33 PM
     
     possible for this to happen? Let me know what you think, shoot your theories, why you think whatever, etc.

162. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 9:32 PM
     
     So let me pose the question: how can Stiles not know about Red John? I'm interested how it's possible. He is the man of Visualize and he knows those who worked for him---he certainly knows someone as famous as Red John, especially when he has taken such an interest in Patrick Jane. HE has lead Jane on that he knows more than he can imagine, he is able to get RJ's main friend Lorelei out of prison--I'm just wondering how it would be possible for Stiles not to know about Red John? It's an honest question, what kind of scenarios could there be for this to be the case? And if you know about Red John, you know how he works and what he does, your part of his side, even if you don't kill and engage in such activities. Visualize had such an influence on Stiles life, I'm just wondering how it might be possible Stiles isn't at least somewhat close with it. Knowing the Mentalist, it's definitely possible, we know about the lack of tying things together, but I'm wondering how it could feasibly be possible. Tell me whatever you got.

163. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 9:00 PM
     
     Yes, by the way, the stripper was just a ratings grab. They wanted to create a funny awkward scene but it never clicked. And the whole trying to make Rigsby look like an idiot was also contrived and kind of hard to watch. Lisbon in the past I could see really acting out on Rigsby for such an act or really acting out on the stripper. But this more tame and aging one wouldn't and it showed. Anyway, who else thinks the key to all this is the fact that Ray Hafner knows about Red John who he is and what not and that Jane finding out about this and how he acts on it will be the key to this plot? This cat and mouse game between him and RJ about how much he knows vs how much RJ thinks he knows will be very fascinating. Because once RJ finds out about Jane's knowledge, the dominos fall, chaos starts in the CBI and everybody including Jane is in real danger. We'll see the theme of finding who is on who's side, mole vs CBI finally and it should be fun.

164. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 8:55 PM
     
     The partner scene was interesting, not necessarily for Jane but for Lisbon. Even as recently as last year, she wouldn't have cared about what Jane does or him in his room. It's a non story. But she clearly was bothered by it. It upset her that Jane was spending so much of his time and life invested in something that he wouldn't share with her at any costs and tried to be as deceptive and quiet about it as possible. This whole thing kind of hurt her. And that surprised me. She also purposely "trolled" Jane by mentioning her job offer and saying she was considering it when she had no interest in it whatsoever. None of this really means anything(no there's not any relationship building up here with this) it's just interesting. It builds off how we've seen Lisbon change but it also provides some new insight into her. We criticize the writers alot but this was well done.

165. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 8:52 PM
     
     @rationalgal hit the point I think I've always known but don't always want to accept. This is entertainment, there's only so many loose ends you can tie up, you have to do what's in the best interest of ratings and that often means cutting things and starting from scratch in many ways if you believe that maximizes ratings. We do put too much into how everything should/doesn't fit(not that there's anything wrong with that) but there are some questions the show does owe us answers to that other shows would in a more conspicuous manner. The problem is the show created too many potential storylines, too many storylines with potential to really amplify and create something massive, that you can only act on a few of them and when you leave the rest out there you create an awkward cleft. But oh well, I guess the only reason I'm going on about this is because it became as apparent as ever last night how the intention is on catalyzing this RJ process fast and that in turn will mean many loose ends.

166. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 2:16 PM
     
     @ariehl makes a really good point, although it didn't come off as intentional and we were cut off in the middle of their conversation. But yeah, it probably wasn't intentional and now we see Lisbon try to conceal info from Jane after years of the otherway around. Hmmmm, the drama builds, like I said Lisbon obviously is not the best at lying or keeping information but she is doing this either a) to protect Hafner as a friend b) she doesn't want Jane to know this because either she has a better plan that can't involve Jane or she fears Jane will get overzealous about knowing the fact someone in the CBI probably knows all about Red John. I'm betting on both in whatever combination, and the idea of Lisbon trying to protect Hafner because she fears Janes reaction is intriguing(espec since Jane finally showed some trust and openness to letting Lisbon on his investigation)

167. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 12:47 PM
     
     And that leads to this ultimately; how creative can the writers be? They needed to release RJ info, only they did it in a more blatant way with such an on pour than anybody would have imagined. Jane already has probably narrowed down possible RJ candidates to 20-30. Sooner or later, that list will go down to 1. Once he finds the name though comes the real game. First off, going through all of RJ's alias's(which will be very hard, he's deliberately set them up as such). Going through his moles. Going through law enforcement which will conceal everything about him and make the investigation impossible. Fighting the danger he possesses. We're going to see that theme Bruno talked about this summer now; CBI moles vs non CBI moles, identifying which is which, and having a plan for both. For Jane to get RJ, he's going to need to elicit information from people who know him like Lorelei, Stiles, etc while in a constant battle vs insiders of law enforcement. Lets see what the writers can do with it; its only the whole show that hinges on this.

168. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 12:43 PM
     
     And that leads to another thing: RJ at some point is going to be narrowed down and under the gun. He's going to have to protect himself, hide himself, and that means you'll see Volker type cover ups and concealing of information X10. And on top of that, he's going to have people in the CBI doing deceitful things to gain a leg up and when he needs to, there probably will be casualties. Not just amongst his friends in law enforcement either(to prevent them from talking for one thing). Lisbon will be in danger. And how about this: Jane is in danger also. From the moles and from RJ himself. At some point Jane is going to pindown an RJ candidate, and RJ is going to have to protect himself. And at some point that mean's he's going to have to go after Jane in someway. He won't kill him, we already know that won't happen, but he's going to have to protect himself and he'll go to anything to do that.

169. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 12:41 PM
     
     So now you have someone in the CBI who knows RJ and about him and here's the key: Jane and Lisbon know he will know who RJ is. WOW. Does that add drama. You can bet RJ is keened in on the fact Jane and Lisbon know that he was in Visualize. What this will come down to is how much can Jane conceal about how much he knows about RJ so RJ doesn't find out how much Jane knows if that makes any sense. Think back to the season 3 finale: Jane said knew stuff that RJ didn't knew he did and JAne said "I'm one step ahead of RJ but he thinks he's one step ahead of me so he's really two steps behind". Its going to be the same situation here, how much can Jane conceal that he knows. He can't act on his leads right off the bat. And wow, does it show trust in Lisbon, who is a terrible liar and can't keep things private, to share her in on this information. Out of character for Jane, even this season, which makes you think maybe he's not leading her on to all she knows. Hmmm we'll see.

170. The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List

     1/28/2013 12:37 PM
     
     @RS: Nobody's sure, in fact it's quite the opposite, if your interested in the details look at the dicussion from the last episode, but season 6 is definitely in doubt and when you see a storyline crammed like this it gives you even more doubts. I could complain about the idea of how they just crammed the storyline and how forced it seemed(really one picture to random priest is the breakthrough to finding who RJ was after 5 yrs of intense plans with nothing to show for it?) but ill get to that some other time. Anyway, so here's what we learned. 1) Stiles not only knows RJ, he probably is really good friends and works quite well with him. If RJ has his minions murdering people, I can only imagine what Stiles has done, although I doubt its as violent. 2) Hafner also knows who RJ is and about him. This is really where the mystery and intrigue is, because I don't think there going to find Stiles anytime soon.

171. The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker

     1/27/2013 11:18 PM
     
     So does anybody want to talk about what we just saw? You want to wait till tomorrow or do you want to do it now? Because wow, that episode, wow, that's going to give people like us ALOT to talk about for the next 1-2 months while we wait for more in the story.

172. The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker

     1/27/2013 8:52 PM
     
     I agree with huisclothes list except that I'd put La Roche, Mancini and Bertram in the no category. I just cant' see how its feasible for CBS to be able to bring them back. There's a reason they aren't back and its about contracts and thats tough to change.
     If I were to rank the loose ends that need to be tied up the most 1) Stiles 2) Lorelei 3) Kirkland 4) FBI Agents Schultz and Mancini 5) Wainwright's death and why RJ wanted him dead and how it happened. The show can probably get away with leaving everything else out if they bring in 1-2 characters we don't expect to play major roles, but they really need the top 4 and to come up with something concrete for them. I had a hard time ranking the top 3 also, which one do you think is bigger Stiles or Lorelei?

173. The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker

     1/27/2013 8:07 PM
     
     Brenda is an important character so I'd expect her back but the show has thrown out things like "owing favors" in the past and hasn't really acted on it. Brenda more just did it because of the pressure Lisbon put on, adding a favor at the end was more just a formality. But I do hope they act on that Brenda storyline and that it isn't something trivial as to why she helped Volker.
     
     Bruno has said in season 1 he had a good idea how the show would end, and you always have to give writers some benefit of the doubt, but the more you think about it, the more you have to agree there's something to what @Watcher's saying, there just seems no clear plan, it is helter skelter, what mood are we in today, type of deal.

174. The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker

     1/27/2013 8:04 PM
     
     @Watcher nailed it, those are the loose ends, I'd add the other one as why does RJ have a thing for going after top dogs in CBI(Hightower and Wainwright)--its more than just they interfere with Jane's life, Hightower actually encouraged his antagonizing ways. Also Stiles is an obvious loose end that was deliberately made that way. A show can only resolve so many loose ends, the rest really aren't that important enough you can dedicate time to so I do think we might have gone a bit overboard. Still nonetheless, the point still stands there is ALOT that is to be tied up in little time and it's not a good plan to give no real RJ info for 4+yrs then cram it down our throats in 12 episodes. Also there are loose ends in the past the show never really tied up that aren't relevant now but should have been then(how did an agent just get away poisoning Rebecca, the two Todd Johnson murder lists, why did Jane really think RJ would be at the mall in the finale 2 yrs ago). That's one of the problems I think we all have noted, its just nothing can be done now, its run its course.

175. The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker

     1/27/2013 7:01 PM
     
     Yeah it looks like we're going to get bumped. Golf in January what else is new, I bet it gets bumped for a special re run of the Titanic next time. Super Bowl next week and we aren't getting another show for 3 weeks anyway, this is what happens when your on the bottom of CBS's food chain.