I can understand Jo's sentiment. To a degree. But overall, she's childish and whiny and nitpicking. This is like a gf coming into the picture and getting mad at her bf for being committed to his family, all the while loving that he's family oriented. Meredith is his family. They are the last two. They've been to hell and back. This didn't suddenly start, jo went into her relationship with Alex seeing and knowing this and I guess thought it would change. You don't get to willingly go into a situation like that and then bitch about the situation constantly. It's like knowing your bf has a female bff and then getting jealous every time they spend time together. You knew going in. If she knew she couldn't handle it their relationship shouldn't have went any further. Period. I'm protective of Meredith and Alex's friendship too. I guess I already know I would be that person. An Alex or a Meredith in this situation. If you can't handle my family or my friends then we might not work. Jo will probably say yes. I hope she says no. I've never felt like she and alex are compatible. Maybe if it was a few seasons ago they would be but now Alex has matured and Jo is childish. She needs to focus on herself and her work. 2. I have never been a big Meredith fan. But I've actually enjoyed her this season. But yeah, she's definitely still grieving and it's coming out. She lashes out at Amelia the most, but to be fair Amelia has a remarkable ability to not know when to let something go. Almost every blowout they had could have been less damaging if Amelia knew when to back off, or let something go, or choose a better time, or know when to make something about her. She tends to lash out too. She chooses the absolute worst times to say the worst things and she tends to lack tact which makes it worse. So it's almost like she puts herself in the horrible position of Meredith lashing out at her and then is shocked when it happens. Mer not telling her about Owen (which was respectful to me) wasn't s personal attack on Amelia and shouldn't have even led to the Christina and Derek stuff. Nevertheless, they're a bit toxic but contrary to Meredith belief, they're sisters their relationship is that of teenage sisters. They are a mess and it's horrible but interesting too. 3. I know it seems strange to people but I get it and I like it too. They were due to connect deeper. They've always been in each others orbit. Mer has clung to Alex the most since Derek and it makes sense. There's that nostalgia and he represents the good parts of her past. He reminds her of Christina and the beginning. Owen was Dereks friend. Mark is long gone but Owen is there and he was the other spouse of the other twisted sister and there's a nostalgia there too. He was there with her when Christina was around and Derek was alive (as opposed to Amelia who was related to Derek and reminds her of Derek but wasn't there). Owen doesn't have anyone. Christina is gone, teddy is gone, Derek is gone. He doesn't have a person and he also happens to be an internalizer, who gets anti social and slips into the dark side (his PTSD is already triggered again).I think Meredith relates to him a bit, but she also wants to be his person because she recognizes all the above. It doesn't matter that they didn't always get along. He's kind of her family too. I actually think it goes beyond a promise to Christina. I think she's genuine in her concern and would have gravitated to him even if she didn't make a promise to yang, given the circumstances. I also thought she handled the inquiry with his mother well. She didn't ask for any information or tried to violate hid privacy but she asked as his friend should she be concerned. You figure she probably knows many things his mom does not especially regarding his mental health and his mom obviously knows more than she does. She didn't ask for specifics but she did want to make sure that her approach was the right approach. She's been giving him space while letting him know that she's there for him, she's been watching him carefully. In a way they deal with situations on a similar level which is probably why she does have a better shot at relating to him then Amelia does because Amelia is more open. Again that has nothing to do with Christina. 4. I watched PP for a season, stopped, but did tune in for that 3 part rehab bit because it was intriguing. I'm concerned for Amelia but she has a solid foundation here, even with Meredith. But Maggie especially. Stephanie. Richard. Owen even though he's messed up too they won't be toxic to each other. 5.i don't like most of the covers at all. They're too loud at times and sound obnoxious. Oops and Ignition for example were just obnoxious. The timing was weird too. I did like Chasing Cars and As long as you love me, which I discovered both were covered by the same band so, apparently I only like them and their covers. I haven't been a fan otherwise.
I must be in the minority because I like the fact that Meredith and Owen are friends and it does make sense. Meredith has always prioritized Christina over her other friends. That is her sister. It made sense that she became closest to Alex too. She didn't always get along with George or izzie but she always looked out for them. She wasn't and hasn't been close to Avery, but she has related to him with the living in their parent shadow bit. She made a promise to Christina. The Christina who bonded with Derek at one point in a time of need. The other half of the twisted sisters. Owen and Derek bonded over being the men men in love with the twisted sisters. They sort of accepted each other in each others lives. Owen only had Christina and Derek sometimes Callie. But he lost both of them and doesn't actually have any close ties like other characters do. So it makes sense that the man who became best friends with her husband, the guy who was the love of her best friend/sister's life regardless of how she feels about him, has become her friend and she feels responsible for him in a way. She made a promise and she knows that hunt doesn't have anyone and she knows that he too is capable of falling into the abyss the darkness. She's seen it. So i get it. Hell, I'd be the same way. It's not out of the blue necessarily but it's exactly how Meredith operates. She made Alex be her person. She's offering to be Owens person. I also don't think Mer is being an awful widow. Everyone deals with things differently, and while I like her more this season than I ever have ever she's not behaving any worst than she normally is. Meredith has never been the poster child for emotional sensibility. She and Amelia have a relationship that almost edges towards toxic, but it's a necessary one too. I like Amelia. But Amelia doesn't have a knack for saying the wrong thing at the most inopportune time. She picks the worst moment to make something about her. It drives me nuts. Then Meredith, who isn't one for all the theatrical dramatic stuff (unless it's her) lashes out her by cutting her where it hurts just to shut her up. Rinse. Wash. Repeat. Their views on family are different. Amelia comes from a big family that was mostly stable. It's everything for her, even when she felt like the outcast (her hanging on to Meredith because she's the wife of the sibling she was closest too makes sense). Meredith came from a crappy family. Blood doesn't mean crap based on her life. For her family is what you make of it. It's who has saw you through the worst. That's why Christina and alex are her family. She chose them and they've saw each other through some serious stuff and she doesn't let too many people in. I mean this is the Meredith who basically lashed out at Richard and said basically the same thing, even if he has been her father figure for years. She'd probably say the same about Maggie even though Maggie is her blood. This isn't surprising or jarring that she's still loyal to Christina. She's told Amelia before that she doesn't exactly like her all the time. It doesn't mean she won't go to bat for her or fight for her or play a role in pulling her out a dark spot. But they're always going to be combative because they wouldn't normally get along id they weren't connected through Derek. And yeah, Amelia is there and Derek isn't and that is a reminder that's different than penny. Connecting with Amelia would be normal, this thing with penny is dark and twisted. Meredith isn't normal she's twisted. I don't care about japril. I'm bored. Though Callie and Ben being part of the convo was amusing. I figured out the the brother in law thing a few scenes before Riggs appeared and called Owens mother mom. Tough break. Back to Amelia, again, I like her but she and Meredith end up in whole arguments because she icon the wrong battle to fight at the wrong time. Meredith respecting Owens wishes and saying that it isn't her secret to tell wasn't the time to get pissed at mer. What's to get pissed about? He'll tell her when he's ready to. That should have never even gotten to the point where she Meredith told her that she wasn't her sister. Why can't relationships be different? Why must she compare what she and Mer have to what mer and Christina have? Why would she assume that the loyalty would go away or that she trumps Christina because she's there and yang isn't or she's dereks sister? Why take offense to that? It wasn't even about Christina so much as Meredith respecting Owen at that moment. Jo is another person who doesn't understand family or why Alex and Meredith are so close. She wouldn't behave this way or hold it over his head if Meredith was his blood sister. She doesn't have family and doesn't cultivate close enough bonds to make her own so she doesn't understand his bonds. She makes him her all (which is unhealthy as hell) then gets pissed that he doesn't do the same but he's always been this way with Meredith for the duration of her relationship with him so how do you waltz in knowing that's how it is and then get pissed that that's how it is? She spends too much time trying to make other people like her and value her and maybe if she stopped that she would be treated differently. She always comes across self consumed and whiny and I hate that. But their relationship isn't a good one because they aren't on the same page at all, and ironically I think she's too immature for Alex. So i can't watch them get engaged. I knew it was coming and that Meredith actually was in on it, but there jo goes again being pissed for stupid stuff. She needs someone only devoted to her. Fair enough. Stop bitching and move on then. It's not fair to Alex that she's treating like he's been horrible because he's a loyal friend or he's focused on work and it enough on her. It's not fair to her that she isn't getting what she needs or whatever. End it. Because I can't watch her complain about a guy who values his friends and family or her be jealous over his ex wife. Ugh. bailey kicked ass. Love her as chief. I also love the Arizona and Ricard thing. The scene with the firefighter and his wife and how they both knew it was his time and just accepted it in this mature, beautiful, loving way. So touching. I think she said something along the lines of "so this is the one huh?" And he just sort of nodded and ugh right in the feelings. That's the epitome of relationship goals. They were both just so okay with it all.
Comment modified at November 21, 2015 07:00
Our method is always things are better now so the past and the effects it has doesn't matter. That's like saying a person's childhood has no effects on them as an adult. I mean grown people in this country will still say things like racism isn't a thing anymore because the civil rights movement took care of that. Oy! I think there's a bad habit of thinking that the best way to get past something is to not acknowledge that it exists and pretend like it isn't happening. We do it with everything. The treatment of native Americans, not even talking about the own movements happening now, the effects of being mostly killed and put on reservations, the high suicide rate and poverty, the prison pipeline issues with black and Latinos in the prison system. History books still exclude things like the Oklahoma bombing of black wall street in the 20s, the Asian American movements during the sixties, the latino cowboys during the migration to the west...We gloss over our part with internment camps and Japanese Americans during wwII. We pretend like we've moved on when there are places in the us that are still segregated. The same applies women and gay people...we just like to pretend like things aren't happening because we don't want to talk about them or acknowledged their existence. And when it comes to discrimination and racism it's not enough to not take part....silence when others are is just as harmful.
Honestly I take Avery any way that we get him. I was the same with Sloan. Damn I miss Sloan. Lol
Honestly I barely can express it properly either but thanks.
Honestly, listening is great. It's important. Acknowledging that it exists and that it's happening helps. You can't give away having a privilege any more than a person of color can stop being and having the experiences of a poc. Basically every thing that Maggie was saying. When you catch yourself doing or saying something that can be a problem...learn where you went wrong and don't repeat the behaviour. When you see other people doing and saying things be vocal about it. Because unfortunately the opinion of a person not affected by these things always seems to carry more weight. Women can talk about sexism and women's issues for decades but people listen and respond more when a man does it. Poc can talk about their struggles and discrimination but it's always taken more seriously or heard when a non poc says it. That doesn't mean talk over anyone and their experiences but talk with them and talk along side them. You can teach your kids to not be discriminatory (note don't say color blind because it's unrealistic. The problem isn't that we see color it's that we treat each other differently because of it. See the color, embrace the color like and the differences, share in them, marvel at them, we're all different and that's okay. It allows everyone to be proud of who and what they are without feeling compelled to all be a certain way, and it doesn't ignore the fact the struggles that people deal with because they are different. The problem with the color blind method is by not acknowledging the differences you're kinda erasing the fact the people still get treated crappy by other people because of those differences. You tell your kids what racism is and that it exist while also teaching them not to be. And you teach them to call out that type of unacceptable behaviour. Sometimes it's just enough acknowledging that the world is a crappy place. Forgive me for assuming you're American, but we live in a country that tries to be progressive by saying we're mostly all equal now but doesn't acknowledge it's faults. Like how history textbooks soften how crappy America was so that the kids don't think poorly on it. You can't effectively move on to being better when our country rarely wants to acknowledge half the horrible things it did by erasing or softening it. Sorry got logged out somehow so.
Lol! Fair enough. If they do they do if they don't they don't. I just find their particular arc kind of repetitive. Pick a side and stick with it.
Thank you. It's odd, I mean there are so many issues in our society. Much of it can be resolved if we're willing to be open and hace a conversation but it's hard to have the conversation when it gets shut down before it can even happen. I mean if two friends, sisters, who are different can't have an honest conversation without it being a problem what is the point and how do we ever get anywhere? I think when the civil rights movement ended people just sort of assumed that many of the issues disappeared to just because people weren't speaking about them as much. But more recently people have started conversations that they would have at home amongst friends and family publicly, they are tired of biting their tongues, they stopped "suffering silently" and they started breaking the cardinal "don't talk about race, religion, sexuality, politics" rule and apparently it's jarring? Being more transparent is jarring and it makes people uncomfortable because they're hearing things, thoughts, experiences etc that they never thought about and realized existed and it's like some people can't process this information that isn't new but is new to them. This isn't an agenda, it's life it's reality, even if it isn't their life or their reality. Even ho it turns into an argument and being defensive when you and others are just saying "hey, no biggie we're just saying that this exists" is mind boggling to me.
What does "attitude" and "privilege" have to do with each other? It would be a problem because the mere utterance of "check your black attitude" is a stereotype. It reinforces the same ridiculous stereotype that black people have attitude problems. When a man does something or says something that could be deemed sexist even if it was unintentional and you tell them to "stop sounding so chauvinistic" or "ease up on the male ego" is that offensive? Is that comparable to him retorting back with a "somebody must be on their period" or a "stop being so emotional" or a "go make me a sandwich?" No. That's how you're analogy/comparison comes across. For whatever reason people comprehend this as it relates to gender but never when it comes to race. Dealing with both makes it all the more frustrating. When a deaf acquaintance corrected me because I used hearing impaired instead of hard of hearing or corrected another friend for using normal which unintentionally implied that the deaf friend was not normal. Neither of us felt compelled to get offended and lash back with some asinine stereotype about a community that is already disenfranchised and misunderstood. It's pointless and ridiculous to misinterpret him telling me about his experience as a deaf person as an attack on hearing people. When he's simply pointing out that there are some things I don't necessarily understand as a hearing person. There are things I can't possibly understand. Someone pointing out that I don't understand that specific experience isn't an attack on me. I would agree that it could shut the conversation down if not for the two people involved in that particular conversation. Maggie and Pierce are friends. They consider themselves family. So Maggie didn't have to tiptoe around Amelia's feelings. It was a case where she could be blunt, with a character who is notoriously blunt and outspoken. Just like Meredith could flat out tell Amelia that she wants to punch her in the face or that she doesn't really like her but she loves her because she's family. They're family and don't need to mince words like they would with others. So no, Red Doc wouldn't say that to a patient because that would be unprofessional period. There's a lot of things you can't say in a professional setting that you can in a personal or informal setting. Fortunately (and unfortunately) as a black person you get used to having to choose your battles and bite your tongue and suffer silently and consider people's feelings and ways of approaching subjects without the thought, conscientiousness or courtesy being extended to you. The grin and bear it conceal and don't feel ordeal. As a woman on top of that, well I know personally that it's twice as much of a pain in the ass. Which is LITERALLY what Maggie and Stephanie explained in this episode. Stephanie told Amelia that she took in the situation with Jo, processed it, and concluded that it wasn't a malicious racist issue even if it was a microaggression. That's what women and minorities etc do for every issue that raises a flag. If it were a matter of being too sensitive about any of it, I assure you we'd walk around not speaking to anyone ever. Maggie told Amelia to not give Stephanie the extra work of making Amelia feel better about possibly coming across racially insensitive. That's exactly what you're doing when you spend all this time policing the terminology used, whether you realize this or not. You're telling people who use it to explain or educate because they are on the receiving end of this behaviour intentionally harmful or unintentionally harmful, that they (the most often offended party) shouldn't use this terminology because it can be offensive to the offenders. You're giving them the extra work of having to put their genuine and reasonable frustration on the back burner so that they can focus on not offending anyone when they're explaining why someone has hurt them. Conversations get shut down before they can even happen when a person focuses on these little hangups and word policing because they can't copy with being uncomfortable for the amount of time it takes to listen to someone or have a conversation. Which is also a luxury (since privilege is off the table) that some of us just don't have. The luxury of not actually being uncomfortable every moment of everyday so when it does happen... everyone flips their lid. But I'm sorry that someone explaining why they are uncomfortable makes you uncomfortable. Or rather I'm sorry that someone explaining how and why something is offensive offends you. But much love to you.
Comment modified at November 15, 2015 18:00
I think it's like when your brother brings his girlfriend around so you put up with her because she's your brother's girlfriend but you would never be friends with her by choice just because of different personalities not gelling. No particular reason. I get it. I don't think she dislikes jo. I think she just doesn't care about her at all.
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