He is so gorgeous and cute and is trying so hard not to give anything away :-)
I have a question that has bothered me the entire series and further shows up in the discussions we've had. We've discussed that many couples are living together before marriage and there seems to be more extramarital sex in marriage. We've emphasized that love is much more than just sex, with many excellent comments on the value of love and marriage over and above sexual satisfaction. And yet, sexual infidelity appears to be a deal breaker with relationships mentioned above. Sojourner allows for maybe one affair, whereas golfingdocp allows for none. What is there about sex outside of a relationship that causes such a destructive response? What has the offending party given away or received that causes such anguish?Don't say "trust" because that doesn't explain why the actual event creates such pain in our psyche, both male and female. Neil's response doesn't fit with what we feel as men. He uses his knowledge of Grace's unfaithfulness to try and find out why Grace needed/wanted to go elsewhere, but what do we feel has been given away?
I think Neil explained it best when he confronted Grace in the bathroom about the photo and told her that she was not supposed to be seen naked by anyone other than him. Even in the “modern” world where pre-marital and extra-marital sex seems to have become commonplace, I believe that most people feel that when they enter into a committed relationship with a person, that no other person should have sex with their partner, during the time of the committed relationship. We feel that that our partner’s body and soul, in a sense, belongs to us, and only us exclusively. We believe that the intimacy of sex and ourpartner’s body is reserved only for us. The intrusion of an extra-marital affair destroys that belief and I think for some people, it shatters the sacredness of the intimacy between the couple for the wronged party. From that point on, they may find it difficult to have sex and intimacy with their partner because the image of the intruder is always there. The wronged man or woman may feel that he or she can no longer be with their partner because another person has been in a place that had previously been reserved for them. It’s not the most enlightened view but I think it is an honest human feeling. What is ironic is that I think even the party, that engages in the extra-marital sex, still feels that their partner’s body and soul belongs exclusively to them, and that they will feel the same anger, frustration, sadness, and other feelings, that they may have inflicted on their partner when they cheated, if that same partner subsequently has an extra-marital affair. The only thing you have to do in order to decide whether or not my comment makes sense is to imagine if you would still be able to have sex with your partner if you learned that they had slept with another person after you married or entered into a committed relationship.
There are many ways to violate a marriage. My parents may not have cheated, but they didn't have a romantic love and it scarred me worse than if I would have seen at least one of them love someone. I come from a long line of what seemed to be platonic marriages. They're the worst.
Wow, now I know why I keep coming back to this site. You have hit on something that I feel is the basis for my blaming Grace for where this marriage is going, and my cheering for Neil. On another series, Parenthood, a lot of us have been cheering for a reunion of a marriage, that is currently in a separation, with one of the spouses, engaged in a very physical affair with 2 other men. While I am hoping for a reunion, I have always questioned how the husband, could get past, everything that his wife has been doing sexualy since their separation. He clearly wants a second chance, but I am confused how he can get past the thoughts of her and another man, when he literally checked out of the marriage when he learned she had kissed another man. Different show, different views.
Reality Adictt, I want to add only one thing. This was my answer to Winter's inquiry above. I think it is an honest answer to a serious question. However, if I were the wronged party, depending on the circumstances, I might be able to move past this issue and work through the infidelity with my partner. it all depends on what happened, what my partner was willing to do to prevent the conduct from occurring again, and the what were the current circumstances of the marriage (how old are the kids, what is the current state of the marriage, etc).
I agree with you. However I don't think the children were a thought in the cheating spouse mind when they decided to violate the marriage. We all agree that we want the best for our children, but lying to them doesn't give them about life and marriage.
Carissa you have mentioned this before, and I find it heartbreaking. A quick story to let you know why. When I was very young my father died. One of my last, complete, and vivid recollections of my father was him lying on the couch naked while my mother was giving him a sponge bath. My father held my hand and smiled at me and told me to remember what I was seeing because it was love. He died weeks later of a heart attack. I have never forgotten that event, and it has colored my life since. I sincerely hope that you find the man (woman) who lights your fire, that that you and he (she) are able to keep the flame burning for life. There is nothing as fulfilling in life.
Don't let your heart hurt for me. Everyone who knows the damage lack of romantic love can do, just step up. Those that come after me can benefit. My sister and I both struggle. I had a long line of years-long relationships; she married her first real boyfriend later in life. I'm currently alone and she's in a rather platonic marriage. I see a lot of me in her and I wish better for her. Unfortunately, she knows nothing else. Me? I know something is out there, and that's why I keep testing the waters. This two year break isn't hurting me. I'm focusing in work and getting to know myself; learning to trust again and know what I need in order to do that.
Carissa, you hurt my heart.When my wife and I started our family, a family friend told us that the greatest gift we could give our children was to love each other. I think were was a lot of wisdom in that advice. My father was an alcoholic, and brought all the problems associated with that into his marriage. But, the one thing that I have always been sure of was that he truly loved my mother, and for that I could forgive him almost anything.I hope you can break the cycle and find true love in your live.
Bushi101By the bikini's my daughters and wife wore on our last vacation to Hawaii, I am not too sure whether it is that much of a jump to nudity. That was only joking folks. I am totally in your camp with regards to how it crushing it would feel to try and be sexual (lovingly) with a partner whom you know has betrayed you. I am personally not sure that I could stomach such an event. I can perceive still loving that person, but the sexual act might be difficult to consummate. All the insecurities, I as a male carry, would certainly come to the forefront. It would take a load of communication and possibly therapy to get me to the point of full trust where I could let all my emotions come into play. No matter what happens later in life, the partner of the person who committed the adulterous act, would always wonder if they were sufficiently filling the needs of their spouse. That would be a terrible burden to carry, and it would impact the relationship. They may remain together, but I am very sure that there has to be some residual deficit or trust issue which will be silently shouldered by the betrayed partner.
Just to be clear, the “white dress” Beckett has on at the end is not a dress. It’s actually the type underwear many women wore back in the day. (Just as the black corset she has on earlier is actually meant to be worn underneath her clothing.) Mrs. Castle was out on the street, in broad daylight, in her “un-mentionables” lassoing her husband! Scandalous! :D
If you think that Stana's outfits were scandalous in this episode, you should see some of her modeling photos and revealing outfits at her Hollywood premiers. She is so hot and I loved every stitch on her glorious body in this episode. Hope you were only joking on this!
WOW!! she mentions Klaus's name!!! <3 <3 <3 ..."I INTEND TO BE YOUR LAST...HOWEVER LONG IT TAKES...".... <3 <3 <3 remember anyone?? :-D
Okay, Carissa, You were right and I was wrong (It was bound to happen sooner of later). Women can and do fake orgasms and get away with it.
I inspired you to do some research!! We rock. ;-)
I thought this was a given after I saw Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally?
So can guys.
Wouldn't Emma have to care about Hook to 'notice' something is 'different' about him? Considering nothing else changes about a person's personality. He'll probably keep lying to her and there will be no ill effects. This past episode was SO bad because it gave all the scenes that should have been between Emma and either Regina or Snow and made them with a character who is going to be gone in two episodes. What a waste of emotional depth. But the writers don't care about Emma in general. Let's be real though. Rumple loves nothing like he loves power. Especially since we now know that Rumple corrupted teenagers and forced children into unhappy lives in order to curse thousands of people apparently just for fun considering how many ways there are to cross worlds. He'd probably kill Belle in order to get more power or if she wasn't easily controllable; at any rate, that poor girl needs out of her abusive relationship
I think McGee tipped Bert off about the black roses. Remember Bishop said something about the list being specific? Eventually he will probably be caught!
I had a niggling suspicion that McGee might have tipped Bert off, too. Whatever happened, though, hopefully Abby will let up and give him more time!
I'm not even a huge oliver and felicity supporter and thought ray was creepy. Felicity came off as materialistic when we all know there is more to her. I don't understand how people think it's organic when it didn't even seem like she liked him much until this episode.
Yeah. She was kind of tripping over herself fawning over him when there had been ho inkling beforehand. And btw, there is NO chemistry there whatsoever. And there is certainly no witty banter between the two. If there is, I'm not seeing it.
well said. really cheapened her having her gush over lavish things. the guy is a gajillionaire, it takes nothing for him to buy expensive things. he could buy ANY woman expensive things so there's nothing special about him buying it for you
I don't think it was selfish of Zoey, I think it was selfish of Gunnar to assume that Zoey would step in and become Micah's mom-figure. He never once asked her about what she thought or felt about the situation. He put her in a tough spot, assuming she'd acquiesce and she did, until she couldn't do it anymore. Gunnar didn't care about Zoey, he cared about Gunnar. Not knocking him, it's a tough situation, but I don't blame Zoey one bit (doesn't mean I like her character, because she's arguably my least favorite). Love the dynamic between Deacon and Scarlett: "I thought you weren't watching"...."Shut up and eat your party mix." They were great last night. Loved the scene between Avery and Juliette when he dropped her off. There was obvious sexual tension, they both felt it, but Juliette didn't push. Avery knows how she feels about him, she knows that Avery knows and she's gonna let him come to her. It seems as if she's ok with her life right now and she needs to be healthy and happy mentally for herself before she can truly be happy with Avery. So I was very proud of her she didn't make a move or didn't ask him to stay. Teddy is an idiot. Liked not seeing Pam. And a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts. Hope Rayna knows that.
Totally agree. Juliette knows not to push Avery right now. He has to come to her.
Honestly, Kara is my least favorite character on the show. So if someone had to go.... I would probably hope for it to be her. Though that seems unlikely since the girls are already outnumbered by the boys. But I just find her character to be the most boring. Kara, on the other hand, is quite entertaining to watch! And I love seeing her character grow and actually try for things that she wants. Seeing her in the skater gear was pretty great. I also love how she seems to become more and more insightful as the series goes on. And watching her take advice from Brittany and actually have some girl time with her was fun to watch. The story of the boys and Emma trying to get presents for Charlie was cute, but it wasn't that entertaining. I think I would like Emma a lot better if she was with Jordi. I just don't see any chemistry with her and Leo. But I can't wait for Bella Thorne to be on next week! And I can't wait to see what happens with Brittany and Dr. McAndrews!
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