I was glad to see Elam again, but unlike the reviewer, since I don't speak Commanche, I would have liked to have subtitles. I might as well have pressed the mute button.
I haven't watched this series since the first season, but I want to thank you for this comment. It made me laugh out loud. There were seriously no subtitles? That would have infuriated me.
The entire show was in a Commanche village where they were nursing Elam back to health after being mauled by a bear. Except for a few utterances, and grunts, by Elam the rest of it was in Commanche, and we can only guess that it was really Commanche. Don't know, of course, why you only saw the first season, but you've missed a lot.
Very sexy. Her eye roll and knockout were both very sexy.
no more lavon and AB plz and no more lemon and George plz on season 4 more lemon & lavon and more zoe & wade give the fans what thery wanted to see plz
<sigh> When good characters go bad. Blame the writers if this episode didn't grab you. Common executed the role perfectly but I hated to see such an unnecessary reversal of what had been a good man.
So help me - if they've done this to Elam only to have the bozos in Cheyenne or the Army lynch him, I will not be happy. Better to have killed him outright. Anson Mount tweeted a photo of himself wearing a badge sometime in the future (?). I wonder if that's Elam"s badge and Cullen's going to become a lawman to remember/avenge his friend. Could it be that Common wanted to leave the show all along and they gave him this story arc as a sendoff?
The promo for the last episode says Adriana is startled by a new arrival. Any bets on whether it is Grace or Neil. I am betting Grace . She looked interested by Adriana's offer to help check out other guys.
Thank you for finding the best sex reference. Carissa is correct that Grace has grown more independent during her affair. She is devoting her energies to self-fulfillment. Neil is all for career and personal growth. Remember the apology for missing the building opening, but insisting on seeing it after the dance lesson. Grace doesn't immediately tell Neil about the Milan opportunity. Why is she being so secretive? I suspect a part of her wants to go it alone for awhile. I've been happily mated to my girlfriend for about as long as the characters in this series. I might be a little picqued if my talented woman withheld similar information.
I don't have an answer about their marriage before we knew them. We do know that she put her entire life on hold to be a wife and raise a child. It seems fair to expect not to be neglected at any point. To have and to hold. Holding is just as important as the having. Open up a bit. Step back and look at it outside your gender. Is having a career difficult? Hell yeah. Sometimes you don't want to make an effort at home because you've spent so much at work. But that's not the way marriage works. It's a partnership and both parties must be equally engaged for it to succeed. That's obviously not the case here. They checked out for various reasons. Is leaving emotionally or sexually better or worse? Neither is above the other, not if someone wants their marriage to continue.
If you think the marriage was well over before Simon appeared, then how can you blame Grace? We don't know the full story of their lives before that moment. It's really interesting that this show is features both a male and female perspective, because it's giving me some good insight to the male psyche. Not from Neil's perspective, but from a viewers. As a woman, I'm blaming both partners for losing sight of their love, commitment and vows. That doesn't to be shared across the sexes.
Again, just show me the good side of a wife starting an continuing a over 6 month sexual, and emotional affair, while married to a man whose worse problem is he's been too consumed with his job, and has neglected to show her the attention she probably deserves. Total disregard of her marriage vows and her daughter.
If your speculation is correct, that's it is Grace, then this show can't end fast enough for me. Throw away a marriage, a family; aspiring career opportunities, and the Milan trip, would show just what a self centered individual she is.
You guys are completely unwilling to see any good in Grace. It's really sad. Somehow Neil has all these layers to his personality (that he for some reason doesn't want to share with the whom who should be the most important person in his life) but you have flat out decided that Grace is to blame for everything. I daresay people are projecting. Neither character has been open and honest about how they are or what they want and there isn't blame about who is ending the marriage. It's just a tragic situation.
I just don't see any redeeming features in the character of Grace. This marriage has been over well before Simon appeared. How did Grace discover Simon? She went down this path of infidelity and needs to own the consequences, not to condone Neil's infidelity after his discovery. There are other options for trying to save a marriage/relationship. Can Matt Passmore ever find a series thar will last more than a season or two? Now that is sad!!!
You may be right about the male views, but you can also learn a lot from Neil's perspective. He thought his main function in a marriage was to support the family financially and the more he earned the better he was doing. JMO, but I could easily see Neil thinking that those late hours were an expression on love.
This is a really good point. A few years ago at an eerily similar low point (but with no affair), we discovered that our expressions of love were very different, and that the very things that made me feel neglected (and I'm not a SAHM, I work too as much or more most times - we take turns being the heavy worker) were things that he thought were nurture, and the other things he thought were nurture were "big bleeping deal" from me, because they were just plain grown up duties. I love (being sarcastic) when people watch scenarios on TV and say "oh, I would NEVER do that". You really never know what your limits are on things, and everyone has them. I have empathy for both of them. I feel like if it were me, despite being the one who started the cheating, I might have a harder time overcoming the escort part (that's like cheating on steroids) but hope that they can talk through it all. This is something that I think almost ALL long-married couples can identify with at least in part. I do hope we get a second season. Lots more to discuss!!
I have the opposite view of the escort issue. I associate escorts with sex only. A typical affair is with someone the cheating spouse knows, which suggests that there are emotional bonds formed on top of the sex, that makes it harder to end the affair. Also it is likely that the spouse of the cheater knows the lover and can be doubly hurt.
I like Grace. Plus I'm looking at it from a logical viewpoint. She went to Simon's with every intention of cheating. She is worldly enough to know she wasn't going there to have a coffee chat and play Parcheesi. Fact neither one had a reason to cheat. Unless something out of the extra ordinary and I mean real extra ordinary. You took a vow to forsake all others. I'm not really religious but I personally keep my word. So I have a hard time from you're perspective thinking it was Ok on her part. He's making an effort by complimenting her and she's getting turned on by the flirting with him. He's a typical guy. Ignore things and throw in a few compliments and the problem will go away. Women are more complicated. They need to fell validated. Grace knowing Neil knows should go home keep the flirting with her husband going. She should tell him about Milan and ask him if he really meant it about will he support her no matter what and she needs to go. She knows he's trying so try and tell him what you need now that she knows he knows there is a problem. She should keep her mouth shut about Neil knowing. He's known and he hasn't called her out, so she should figure he's forgiven her. She should tell Simon she loves her husband and see yah later.
When I earlier said "good for her" for cheating and finding herself, I wasn't condoning it. Of course it was a horrible thing to do. The one good thing that came out of it, much like the good thing that came from Neil doing the same thing, was that it opened her eyes. I'm just guessing that they were dead inside and without a chance of ever addressing their issues before this all happened. Now, even given all the awful things they've done, at least maybe they can get angry, scream and toss it all out on the table. It's really becoming a situation of "what do we have to lose?" ya know?
I agree. Now they both know they have a lot to lose.
Carissa all your points are well taken. BUT, there always is a but, I maintain that Grace probably checked out of this relationship around 5 years before. A few facts! When did they have their best sex? When they went deep into debt purchasing the great house. Whose psyche was most affected? Neil's, since he principally was responsible for generating the income. Neil was the big star at his current job, yet Grace never visited his office in the 5 years he worked there. Maybe a lack of interest in your husbands career? She went there only to find him when he said he was too busy with a client to answer her messages (he was actually escorting). When Neil freaked out on the plane, and needed to air his moment of self-revelation, he went searching for his mate, confidante, lover, wife. What he got was the ultimate punch to his very soul, seeing the reason his wife was not returning his messages, was that she was busy betraying their marriage. This very scene tells me that Neil was probably confiding in Grace all along, but it was she that was not listening. If you are not confiding in your spouse, you would probably go to whom you are (a friend, love, co-worker). All evidence points to the fact that Neil was a faithful spouse. Maybe not the most attentive, but loyal. Neil gave his wife, a great opportunity to come clean, if you remember the scene around the bed when he asked her if she would tell him if there anything important for him to know. When your husband works 70 hours a week, there is a good chance that you have had discussions why that is occurring. I believe Grace knew that she was safe cheating, because her husband was busy maintaining their family lifestyle, and there would be no risk of discovery. How did that work out? A moment of self-discovery on Neil's part, and both their life's are forever changed. Grace is not evil, but she does get off on her husbands pain. The expensive house , him worrying about paying for it (best sex), the discovery of the nude portrait (make-up sex for her). I believe that when all the revelations come out, it will be Grace who will be totally decimated. Neil has a better foundation from which to build a new life. He has a good career in business; a potentially good career in escorting; a good money source in the happiness app; and a woman who really wants him (Adriana). Grace has a young escort (Simon); a career which has potential but requires application; a potential love interest in her sister's lover. I would rather be in Neil's position. Grace was unhappy and made a decision in a moment of self-indulgence, which will define her life and that of many others. It is the ramifications of that affair which should be the basis of a second season. Neil's, Anika's, Grace's, Simon's, and Adriana's lives have all been irrevocably changed. Neil's company and the satisfaction app; Adriana's business, and Simon's career (IRS) are affected by the affair. The list goes on. That is why this program is interesting to me. It is the resultant circumstances from the betrayal of a singular marriage and far reaching consequences that I find fascinating.
When and who said the best sex they ever had was as a result of them buying a big house they (apparently) couldn't afford? I missed that. I don't believe, by the way, that they couldn't afford it. I know how much money managers make. I know how much salesman who merely sell interest in funds make. They can afford that house and another if they want.
When they found the video? They had sex on a counter top or something. It was in episode 1 or 2 . She went to his office when he quit or something. The receptionist didn't know who she was. She said. Hi I'm Neil Truman's wife. The receptionist responded like oh it's nice to meet you. You only make that money once you've proven yourself. It takes years to build a reputation. In that business your reputation can go down the tubes in seconds.
So Grace told Stephanie that they had their best sex when they were in debt and just bought the house? I'll go look for that.
Where did I mention Stephanie?
Then you know more than Neil does. They purchases that house about 18 years ago.who knows what he was doing then. I doubt he started at the top. I know I am making a hell of a lot more than I did 18 years ago. Plus in analyzing a TV show you have to live in their reality, not yours. He said it to the camera, He was recording for himself, stating the facts as he knew them. He wasn't trying to manipulate anyone or paint a picture that was not true.
So you know when that scene took place? I want to check it out. Jojobo seemed to think that it was Grace who said it. You're saying it was Neil who said they had their best sex when the house was purchased? I'm asking for someone who apparently knows of this scene to point me in the direction of it.
I don't recall anyone saying anything about the best sex.I am saying that it was at the time that they got married that they bought the house and when he was recording Grace in the house, he said he was against it initially because they couldn't afford it but he changed his mind because Grace wanted it. And that 18 years ago he probably was not making nearly what he is today. And since the recording has basically for himself, he had no reason to lie.
No it was Neil. He was telling the Zenaater and the home video showed them starting to go at it. plus Stepahie Swozak said in an interview she loves playing a character that people arn't going to like.
Try watching episode 2 starting at about 1.2 minutes.into the videotaping, Neil talks how he was against buying the house at first because they couldn't afford it. Then he talks about living the American dream and how happy they were and how they believed in each other, right at the end of the video recording whereNeil and Grace were disrobing. Then it cuts to Neil telling the Zen Master that it was the best sex they ever had and that after that everything changed.
Grace tried to tell him about Milan when they first met at the college, but Neil was too upset about the nude photo to hear.
I do see good in Grace. She loves Neal.She furnished their home more to please Neil than herself. I choose to believe it was out of love. She tries to be a good parent to Anika, more than Neil does. I don't think that she is to blame for problems in her marriage, Neil is. She is just not addressing them very well. I like this show because that neither Grace and Neil are the bad guys. Neither has some evil intent. Neither is trying to undermine the other. They are just two people trying to deal with their lives as best they can. I don't think Simon is bad. Adrianna is manipulative. I am waiting for the day that Neil punches out his boss. I would have done it long ago.
“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”
I agree. I think that marriages end in divorce when one or both partners fall out of love. They both love each other now. What they should be doing is making deposits in their spouses love accounts. Not pointing fingers, not assessing blame. They both should apologize for their wrongs voluntarily, and try to address each others needs. Of course, they are not going to do that until all other courses of action are exhausted.
Comment modified at September 08, 2014 09:00
Grace only has her sisters or Adrianna's home to go to. Which would play to the theme that the characters are not acting like normal people. Unless Neil moves in? Then how does she keep Neil and Grace apart.
I don't see Tamra having a story line, if she is banking on her loser son for one, it ain't gonna happen. Who postpones a wedding because their pregnant? It seems to me that is a reason to get married. I don't care if she stays on the show or not, because I am done watching. Vicki and Brooks are boring if she moves him in her daughter will never come to visit. I don't blame her he has lied from day one about knowing that Vicki was on a show.
I agree either Bo out of the picture! Or back in.Knowing both EJ and Sami are leaving the show,I can't wait to see if Stefano is the cause! I love Hayden's character, still adjusting to the new Will. Hope they continue with Hayden and Hope!
I believe that when Adriana tells Simon, to go for it, he has nothing to lose, she's talking about Grace. All of the great observations here, about Grace, and where she's coming from, has me rethinking the season finale. ABC ran a series called Betrayal, which was basically the same premise, happily married couple, wife cheating for some time, but the husband doesn't. It also ran only one season. So, given what we've seen up to now, I am thinking we see Grace, Neil and Anika, in final episode, talking to marriage consulting, maybe temporary separated or all three living in Milan ,trying to work things out, but in a final scene, we'll see Grace waiting somewhere, and we'll see a man's arm reach out to touch her, and she'll look up with a big smile, saying I'm glad you called.
Carissa, would there be any news on a second season of this show? I'm wondering because it is looking like all is going to be revealed in the next 2 episodes. I'm left wondering where they go from there? What else will Adrianna stoop to to get Neil for herself? Will Grace give in to her attraction to Dylan? What's Simon's next move? As for Mateo and Anika, they are just a subplot and in my view isn't really adding anything to the overall show. I do think now that Anika has given Mateo the go ahead to take the music deal that he will bolt and have nothing else to do with Anika............ Bottom line for me with this show is this............In my mind, most couples who have been married for a long time hit at some point where Grace and Neil are portraying now......... I was married for 10 years and my ex husband cheated on me. I couldn't get passed it. I could never trust him again. Forgiveness is one thing but trust is entirely another.
Comment modified at September 07, 2014 10:00
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