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3965 posts
Halde

John's letter was actually very nice. I just resaw the last part of that eppy and found, that i like the letter a lot. It captures the last words of a dad pretty well:D

 

 

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No it was not. It did not even sound "dad-ish" it sounded patriarchal. 

 

Ist a male authority figure urging a female to submit and to conform to the sexist society's and his own wishes for her life, including the sexist notions of having a baby, marrying, etc.

 

They could have made it dad-ish and all by just writing how he wants her to live her life to fullest, etc. 

 

The way the letter was written fits more a patriarchal sexist society father figure ideas than female independency and empowerment message it SHOULD bring.  

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3965 posts
Halde

Listen to your self. Sexist notion of having baby and marriage? WTF? Having a baby one of the least sexist thing you can do. Same with marriage. Goes for both sex. All parents, all good parents at least, want for their children, boy or girl, to have kids, because it is one of the single greatest gift one can give oneself. Having kids and being married has abselutely no sexist strings attacthed. For real feminism(by real i don't mean the kind where women basically want to be men with boobs, but i mean when women actually embrace the value of being a woman) is having a baby a big deal. 

 

Having a baby is female empowerment. You misunderstand a great deal, if you think female empowerment is women with big jobs and no family(therein kid and/or spouse).

 

I can agree that living life to the fullest or something along the lines of that should have been in there.

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Cooling
Guest

Having a baby is female empowerment.

what? and if I don't want to have a baby, how is that "empowering" me?

There was nothing on letter about her *choosing* to have a baby in the future, he just plainly stated that she will have one. so yeah, that's sexist.

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Sexist notion of having baby and marriage? WTF? Having a baby one of the least sexist thing you can do. Same with marriage. Goes for both sex.

Nope. THAT IS sexism. You ARE acting sexist right now.

 

What if Elena does not want to have a baby? What if she becomes a friggin lesbian for all that the world cares? The letter strips away any right of choice for her. Having a baby, marrying a man is a typical stereotypical sexist role for female. Letter does NOT present her or the narrative with a choice nor emphasize that its her choice.

John, her father wants her to marry and have babies. That's all. That IS sexism.

 

 All parents, all good parents at least, want for their children, boy or girl, to have kids, because it is one of the single greatest gift one can give oneself.

I don't know where you grew up but such a line of thought IS incredibly sexist.

Having a baby is female empowerment.  

No. No its not.

HAVING A CHOICE and being the one to decide what you do with your life is empowerment. The letter strips away any source of empowerment from narrative.  

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3965 posts
Halde

You and all your opinion on this matter is clearly invalid. That you can think having a baby can even be considered as sexism is incomprehentable and completely garbage.

 

 That's all. That IS sexism.

Nope

 line of thought IS incredibly sexist.

Nope

Considering having a baby as sexism, THAT is one of the most disturbing things i have heard in long. . . Not only that, it is outright ridiculess. . .

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3965 posts
Halde

ridiculous

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 That you can think having a baby can even be considered as sexism is incomprehentable and completely garbage.

having a baby is not the problem.

The problem is that the CHOICE of having a baby or not having it is stripped away in the narrative.  Having a baby, marrying someone is portrayed  as the ultimate happiness and ultimate goal of life for a female character. 

What if elena decides to have an abortion? What if elena does not want to marry some man and live domesticated life? The letter portrays it as a wrong choice.  And its a choice that the show gives to her father, while normally should be woman's own choice on what she does with her body

 

Its not an opinion, frankly.  Its the very basis of what makes sexism what it is.  

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3965 posts
Halde

including the sexist notions of having a baby, marrying, etc.

This was pretty much the sole thing that ticked me off. You wrote this as a general fact around what sexism is. That having a baby and getting married is sexism. Because saying that having a baby is sexism, is, or borders on, misogynism.

 

 

What if elena decides to have an abortion? What if elena does not want to marry some man and live domesticated life? The letter portrays it as a wrong choice.

The letter potray that of Elena being independent of her father. . . If one believe that any girls--->women's dads should have right to decide for their daughters, then yes, the letters portray it as a wrong choice. If one does not believe this, it portray Elena is independent of her dad, or just don't give that many fucks about him. . . 

What if elena does not want to marry some man and live domesticated life? 

Having a partner is domestication???

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This was pretty much the sole thing that ticked me off. You wrote this as a general fact around what sexism is. That having a baby and getting married is sexism. Because saying that having a baby is sexism, is, or borders on, misogynism.

Marrying and having a baby IS the stereotypical female role from sexist point of view. Sexism is all about placing the genders into the roles.

The letter potray that of Elena being independent of her father. . . If one believe that any girls--->women's dads should have right to decide for their daughters, then yes, the letters portray it as a wrong choice. If one does not believe this, it portray Elena is independent of her dad, or just don't give that many fucks about him. . .  

Except that the narrative in thes how DOES NOT emphasize it. The letter pretty much is "this is why  you must survive" kind of crap.

 

Look at how BTVS handled Joyce - NOTHING she said was presented as a fact.

 

With John there's no sense of subjectivity. The show just tries to evoke the usual "awesome person esacrificed his life so Elena could do those things" kind of thing, that yet again, emphasizes those things as the pinnacle of happiness.

 

The letter could have as well been written in a way that emphasizes the choices elena can make in her life that john wants her to be able to make, like building a normal non-supernatural life, attaining happiness by finding love, finishing education, etc. But what letter instead emphasizes? A stereotypical female housewife role for Elena. THAT is sexism.  

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Vampire Diaries Quotes

You want a love that consumes you. You want passion and adventure, and even a little danger... I want you to get everything you're looking for. But for right now, I want you to forget that this happened. Can't have people knowing I'm in town yet. Goodnight, Elena.

Damon

Damon: You know what they are? Children. Like lighting a candle's going to make everything OK, or even saying a prayer. Or pretending Elena's not going to end up just like the rest of us murdering vampires. Stupid, delusional, exasperating little children. And I know what you're going to say: 'It makes them feel better, Damon.' So what? For how long? A minute, a day? What difference does it make? Because in the end, when you lose somebody, every candle, every prayer is not going to make up for the fact that the only thing you have left is hole in your life where that somebody that you cared about used to be. And a rock with a birthday carved into it that I'm pretty sure is wrong. So thanks, friend. Thanks for leaving me here to babysit. Because I should be long gone by now. I didn't get the girl, remember? I'm just stuck here fighting my brother and taking care of the kids. You owe me big.
Alaric: I miss you too, buddy.

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