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The-vampire-diaries
10980 posts
Floralovesgurlplz
Ugh I bugged coco enough and Matt won't reply for shit
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169 posts
Stakeinurheart

Whats with the Spam outbreak?

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1565 posts
Amie
What is all this nonsense about Lexi and Damon in the 70's...please don't tell me they hooked up or something, I will hurl!
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3442 posts
Dancing-eyes
LOL.Why does everything have to come right back to sex on this show?Its not 90210,"complicated situation"could be anything.Besides Lexie hooking up with Damon would make no freaking sense.
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because this is a soap opera. EVERYTHING is about sex. 

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169 posts
Stakeinurheart

Hope not! .. Lexi will lose major points

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1565 posts
Amie

That's what I hate about modern tv shows - is the whole trend of "oh we'll introduce a bad boy in s1 just to make him adorable and lovely and gooey by s whatever". Like its not bad obviously for a character to develop and become better over time, but in real life people don't become saints over a short period of time or actually most of the time they stay the way they are till death. But it seems to me that almost every tv show these days is saying - hey, love the bad boy because deep down inside he is pure and made of gold and bla blah blah........which is just ugh......Lexie did not like Damon for a reason, and now you are telling that they hung out back in the 70's and she might have liked him? Or something like that...sorry knowing TVD these are the only thoughts I have and I just soooooodon't want that to be the case because we already have the neglected story of how Damon treated Caroline like crap and all is fair and forgotten since he has apparently changed so much since s1....I mean, there are actually people out there super overjoyed that Damon hugged Bonnie........when in reality he was just happy about the fact that YAY, bonus points for me since I found this stupid witch and can drag her ass back to my fair Elena and be like oh well, at least your friend is alive now that your brother is dead. Book Damon saved book Bonnie for his own reasons, it wasn't about impresing book Elena to win her over.....it was genuine. LOL, Damon told Shane the epsiode before that he could not give a damn about Bonnie and these idiots are all crazy about the fact that he almost hugged her...ugh...this world!

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is the whole trend of "oh we'll introduce a bad boy in s1 just to make him adorable and lovely and gooey by s whatever". Like its not bad obviously for a character to develop and become better over time, but in real life people don't become saints over a short period of time or actually most of the time they stay the way they are till death. Actually there's nothing wrong with this. That's called gray morality and its the basis of our life. 

However there are SEVERAl factors that the show needs to get right before it can even try to pull that shit off:

There HAS to be a sense of in-universe understanding whether character's actions are right or wrong. Redemption has a lot to do with how other characters perceive the said cahracter. There HAS to be a line the said character to be redeemed does not want to cross. There HAS to be a progression in redemption instead of the character being stuck as a revolving door - doing fucked up shit one moment and then repenting the next.  That's not "redemptive badboy" thats psychopathy. The character to be redeemed should have SOMETHING about him beyond his "wah wah I am bad mode". 

Its actually very good idea to have your "positive" characters make bad or "evil" decisions and your "negative" villains to make good decisions. It blurs the lines, makes plot more unpredictable, but yet again that relies ENTIRELY on the moral sense of the show - the actions taken have to be perceived as such in order for any sort of moral alignment to matter in anyway. 

TVD fails in all of that. 

 

 

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2296 posts
Charishma

actions taken have to be perceived as such in order for any sort of moral alignment to matter in anyway. 

But is TVD really failing? Or is the majority of the audience too immature (and maybe a little dense or just plain lazy) to use their own developed moral compass to judge for themselves? I honestly don't think TVD is that bad at communicating what's bad and what's good. Its just that the loudest part of the fanbase (generally) is very young and the voice in their heads that tells them what is right and what is wrong still sounds a lot like a parent/authority figure, as opposed to their own voices.

 

Just because someone like Elena says killing Kol was okay, doesn't make it okay. Just because Damon says it's okay to be bad with the condition that you do it for purposes other than to be a dick, doesn't make it true. Just because Klaus thinks people should be grateful for 'head starts (lol btw) doesn't mean they should be. We're not supposed to take things at face value. But a lot of people end up doing that because they're lazy. Which forces the writers to spell things out sometimes (and essentially dumbing down the show).  I.e.: Klaus/Caroline/Katherine commentary on D/E/S triangle. 

 

There is moral sense to this show. But right now, with Elena being a vampire, I agree that it's harder to stay in check. But then you have characters like Caroline, who pretty much is the moral compass at this point.

 

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But is TVD really failing? Or is the majority of the audience too immature (and maybe a little dense or just plain lazy) to use their own developed moral compass to judge for themselves?

Audience's moral compass means jack shit to character growth and morality. 

TVD fails since it litterally has no greek chorus of element in its narrative, so we have no idea what those characters are about and whether what they did is viewed as good or bad by other characters.

Elena is so awesome, worshiped by entirety of cast, yet 99% of her screentime has been full of hypocrisy, shitty decision-making and blandness. And yet she will never ever ever get called out on that shit because hwo could it - Elena is gentle and caring and flawless and good and the epitome of messiah. 

At the same time, the shwo expects the viewers to care and cheer for serial murderers and rapists like Damon or just batshit insane murderers like Klaus, because in writers heads, one miniscule act of repentment justifies, undoing it all the very next episode(Hell whole S2 was Damon going back and forth stuck in place, without his character moving forward)

In both of those cases show and writers clearly expect us to LIKE those characters, yet audience never has any reason on why. A character should have flaws, yet show never addresses it, never acknowledges them being there and writers do not even notice them(Plec even said in interview that the only flaw Elena has is that she cares too much, lol) 

 I honestly don't think TVD is that bad at communicating what's bad and what's good.Yes, TVD is not simply "BAD" at communicating. It simply does not communicate at all.

This is an entire show with an entire cast acting like sociopaths. 

Just because someone like Elena says killing Kol was okay, doesn't make it okayExcept the show narrative clearly expects us to agree and in this case even excuses elena for that action via shitty plotlines like sire bonds. End result? Elena still is flawless god who has no flaws(and thus no personality)

Just because Damon says it's okay to be bad with the condition that you do it for purposes other than to be a dick, doesn't make it trueOh but its okay, he is just misunderstood, he just wants to be loved, feeeel for him, blah blah. 

Show never called him out on raping and abusing Caroline after all. No one in the show did too.

 

. Just because Klaus thinks people should be grateful for 'head starts (lol btw) doesn't mean they should be.No but narrative certainly expects audience to weep over poor Klaus and his past and daddy issues and all the crying. , while making EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER ignore the implications of what Klaus does. 

 . We're not supposed to take things at face value.TVD DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING beyond that. 

Which forces the writers to spell things out sometimes . I.e.: Klaus/Caroline/Katherine commentary on D/E/S triangle.No thats just writers unable to actually develop ANY of the characters involved and having to throw an expy at viewers to tell us how we should feeeeel.

Its inadequacy in the limited "talents" of the said writers. 

(and essentially dumbing down the show)

  Dearie, that happened years ago.  Its nothing but a dumb fanservice-driven soap opera with sexist and misogynist propaganda

. But right now, with Elena being a vampire, I agree that it's harder to stay in checkOh but its very easy!

Just like wimp steffdward, she has all those excuses on why her actions are not her fault, sufficiently continuing to leave the bitch as characterless bella swan.

Elena having morality conflict as vampire would be a storyline in ANY decently written tv show. So would her having to pay for her actions and other characters realistically reacting to said actions(like damning half her family by refusing bonnie-sacrifice in S2, just because she was such a holy messiah who cared about everyone) So would her having actual reactions to outside triggers like abuse, stalking, torture, stress. So would her having an actual reactions to deaths. So would  exploration on darker sides of each character, what makes them tick. So would Elena making wrong decisions, morally questionable decisions and NOT getting away with it due to a plot asspull of bad writing.

THen of course, TVD has none of that, since this is not decently written tv show

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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