Reply to PostOT: BTVS Thread
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I agree, "Amends" is pro Buffy&Angel.
any arguments in that?
- Angel's bigger destiny is presented.
- Buffy as a roadblock in Angel's redemption is presented.
- Dark Forces getting to Angel through Buffy.
- THE IDEA that while demon in him made it possible for him to do all those horrible things in the past and in sunnydale, it all coming from ANGEL and who he is is finally directly spelled out.
- Buffy outright pushes him into seeking a way to atone for it all instead of giving up.
They are two very different characters. . .
yet again. we must be watching VERY different shows.
Posted 6/28/2012 6:17:48 PM # -
The arguement that "one just lack morality, remorse etc etc whatever" doesn't make sense. Remorse and morality is what shape us.
You can't say they are similar "other than one being bound by remorse and the other being free". That is a freaking huge leap and difference in character.
"They got the mustard(THEY GOT THE MUSTARD) <OUUUUUUUT>"
God I love Once More, With Feeling.
Posted 6/28/2012 6:47:16 PM # -
It's like saying "Buffy and Xander is the same, Buffy is just a slayer".
Posted 6/28/2012 6:51:30 PM # -
The arguement that "one just lack morality, remorse etc etc whatever" doesn't make sense. Remorse and morality is what shape us.
Not remorse. Spike was capable of that. MORALITY. Moral guidance. Its essentially a whole of who he is.
Morality just restricts our darker urges. Vampires are a whole set of psychological longings and urges the identity had before.
We saw enough of soullessness to KNOW how it works. Hell, we SAW soulless Buffy in S4.
It's like saying "Buffy and Xander is the same, Buffy is just a slayer".
Nope.
But Willow and Buffy are the same. And Buffy and Spike. and Buffy and Faith.
Posted 6/28/2012 7:09:19 PM # -
not to mention that Season Two Angel pretty much proves my point too.
And season five angel.
and btvs season eight angel.
Posted 6/28/2012 7:10:14 PM # -
unfortunately, Angel is a mask that Angelus is forced to wear.
Angelus is pretty much the closest to Liam's personality. Buffy can't even accept this part of Angel. That's why I can never agree or consider Bangel as true love. Buffy even tolerated and hung out with Spike even without a presence of a soul.
Posted 6/28/2012 7:57:43 PM # -
Angelus is pretty much the closest to Liam's personality. Buffy can't even accept this part of Angel. That's why I can never agree or consider Bangel as true love. Buffy even tolerated and hung out with Spike even without a presence of a soul.
Well, to be fair.
Liam was sort of a monster of a person and got even worse when he became Angelus. Frankly had he not died and gotten turned, I would not have surprised on if Liam ended up a serial killer or something like that.
William on other hand was not malicious neither as human nor as vampire.
They are entirely different beings both trying to change their nature for entirely different reasons.
Angel is Liam's denial of his own nature, so to say.
Angelus is Liam's embrace of his own nature.
Posted 6/28/2012 8:12:08 PM # -
Its impossible to "Accept" Liam's whole nature as its essnetially a monster. An embodiment of ill intent. Angelus is an artist of death and his understanding of "love" is impossible to accept.
Spike, even soulless spike, on other hand, is not malicious by itself and is driven by same urges of romance, chivalry, empathy, love, poetry and all that other stuff as human William was.
The whole of "Angel" is impossible to love. And thats what Amends is about. Angel when he is Angel, might have morals and guilt and all that stuff, but all that makes up Angelus is still there, in him, and, arguably, Angel is far more dangerous one, because while Angelus has passion for destruction and is disconnected from others, Angel is driven by his emotions and his understanding everyone else.
Posted 6/28/2012 8:18:43 PM # -
well when you love someone you have to accept the person fully,
inmho bangel is pure high school puppy love aka infatuation. buffy loved the idea of angel not him
Posted 6/28/2012 8:34:15 PM # -
Buffy did seem to thoroughly ignore the existence of Angelus in Angel, true. And yeah it was a childhood love, the show pretty much spelled it out.
Cordelia on other hand understood what Angelus means for Angel's own identity and nudged Angel into the right direction, while Faith understood Angel because she saw herself in him(and vice-versa).
Posted 6/29/2012 4:30:02 AM #
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