Fringe Round Table: "And Those We've Left Behind"

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This week in our Fringe Round Table, we dissect "And Those We've Left Behind." Time jumps, Peter and Olivia and the space time continuum... what more could we ask for?

Join yours truly - our resident Fringe critic - along with staff writers Nick McHatton and Sean McKenna as we try to decipher events clearly above our pay grade.

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How do you think they will rectify the rip in the space time AWESOME continuum?

Nick: I keep thinking Peter is going to look up at the sky at some point with his flashlight and phone home. Now that you've raised your head back after looking down in embarrassment my only guess of how the timeline will be rectified is with Peter. His appearance into this timeline started it and perhaps his disappearance will fix it. Peter knows he's not in the right place, and I can't help but wonder if this timeline is a pit stop until we back to ours (in some way).

Sean: Walter will eventually find a way or someone is going to have to make a sacrifice to fix things. Isn't that how it always goes?

Carissa: I want the two time frames to come together in a way that incorporates some aspects of both, but I have absolutely no idea how it could be accomplished. When people remember Peter will a ripple of time go over them a la A Sound of Thunder? 

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What would you have done in Raymond's position?

Nick: I would've used his wife's super awesome mind to cure Alzheimer's or maybe going forward in time to get the cure.

Sean: I understand Raymond's reasons and desires, but living life is all about the moment and beyond. I think he just needed that extra push to help him truly understand it.

Carissa: It seems as if he spent four years trying to make sense of his wife's code to no avail. I don't know that I would have had the patience for that. I might have donated her work to eager students to see what they could come up with, rather than wait it out.

What did you think of the special effects of the time jumps?

Nick: All kinds of fantastic, they were done so well, and I loved how annoyed Peter was getting with them!

Sean: They were decent. Although I would say that the train sequence was probably the coolest. I wonder if there will be more in the future. I have a feeling time and Peter aren't through yet.

Carissa: I was astounded at how fun they were. Peter appearing in and out of scenes was just fabulously done. More of those as we near an answer would be desirable.

What is the significance of four years with regard to Peter and the jumps?

Nick: Peter's existence made them possible, and I think they're significant in that it will lead to so kind of resolution in regards to where Peter is headed. What that is exactly? Who knows, it's Fringe after all. I'm lucky enough that my brain hasn't vacated the premises afterwards!

Sean: Honestly, I have zero idea. There probably is some significant meaning behind it or importance to getting him back to his timeline, but I'm at a loss for words regarding an answer.

Carissa: I asked this question in the hopes one of my cohorts might know the answer. How Peter's appearance made the formula work but back to four years went right back over my head. Anyone??

How long do you think it will be before we get to see Peter and Olivia have their Perfect Day?

Nick: I'm probably in the minority, but I really enjoyed Peter and Olivia together. I liked that aspect of the show. I'm all for it happening sooner rather than later, but I don't want them together just to be together. I would rather the journey be epic and realistic.

Sean: I don't think Peter and Olivia are going to have there Perfect Day till at least closer to the end of the season. He still has a lot of work to do figuring out how, why, where, and perhaps when he came back. Although, I guess time could be all relative so you never know.

Carissa: I hate to say this, but I am worried it will be another season before they are back to their respective selves. Whether with new time built around them or where we left off. I can only pray the viewers tune in so we can be given a proper ending to this incredibly journey.

Carissa Pavlica is a staff writer for TV Fanatic. Follow her on Twitter and on Google+.

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here's the way i understand whats happening. There's 2 universes (in this specific episode, its safe to say it is in no way relevant), so why can't there be 2 time lines? The end of the last season solved the 2 universe problem (for the most part) but also sprouted a new problem, a secondary time-line. What we see is the real one, but Peter got split from in into this new second timeline, where the others didn't exist. I feel this explains why Peter was manifesting to Walter and Olivia. He came to Olivia's dreams because their extraordinary, unique to her, and he manifested visually to Walter because i think the way he operates makes that a unique quality to Walter, he sees things as they truly are. Peter is in the right "where" just not the right "when", he's not from the past or future, but a variant of the present. And he'll need to convince Walter of this in order to help set things straight, or at least as close as possible. This episode may be just a shadow of what is to come, if Peter's existence altered law in any degree, and that small degree has permitted time-travel to be plausible, what comes next? Is this the cause of the change in shape-shifters? And what would that mean to the other universe? How may it have effected them, if at all?
To me, there will be a fix, and eventually Olivia will return back to normal, since the Olivia we have now has hinted at her realizing, in a small way, that there's something missing in her life, and that drive led to her "rescuing" Peter from whatever oblivion he came from. For all we know, Walter lacked that realization of something missing. Maybe not lacked, but more-so misplaced it, he lost his son twice, and seeing the adult version of his son slowly caved in on him (i think he had a basic understanding of who the ghost could've been, since it is Walter, from what we've learned from the first 2 seasons, when a problem is set in front of him, he works at it until it is solved, which was yet again proven even in the recent "those we've left behind")

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The showrunners keep saying that Olivia and Peter are destined to be together, but as we have seen since 3.10 Olivia is the one who has to do the giving, erase her personality so to speak, since she has been completely devaluated from hero, gatekeeper to zero, not even able to have an ability without peter, Peter on the other hand has been made the supergeniusm , hero, no need for help (where are the Olivia visions to guide him home, like they gave Olivia his visions Over There?) just like all the men on Fringe.
The women have been made dependent, stand by your man, since 3,10, like this woman, most blatantly Olivia, but also Nina. So I am certain that this timeline remains, only this Olivia has to adjust herself, and to achieve that she will have to go to hell and back, migraines will just be a prelude, until she is just as insecure and dependent on Peter as Olivia in the original timeline. May be at the very end it will be Olivia with the ultimate sacrifice, being killed by mr X-man, but that wiil not be seen as a hero's deed, but as "poor Peter". A bit like with Raymond and his wife.

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1) I'm not convinced there is going to be a FIX. As with Eureka once the time line was tampered with there was no going back. All I know if they do fix it
it's going to be awesome! For the meantime I will continue to feel terrible for Peter at every interaction (or lack there of) with Walter and Olivia. 4)I just assumed the 4 years was set by Raymond in his calculations and Peter's reappearance just made it all possible. Of course nothing can be marked down to coincidence with Fringe.

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Isn't it 4 years (okay more like 3) since the fringe team was established? Which means it's been almost 4 years since Olivia and Peter met for the first time, and since random things ("The Pattern") started to happen. Could there be a connection? Because Fringe is not a show where stuff just happen randomly. There's always an explanation.

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"Hey Lilo - I know that it was sending them back to just before she got sick. But WHY? If it had nothing to do with Peter, then why didn't it work until he came through? And what are the odds her formula would send her back to the time she was so close to perfecting her code, while she was sitting at her desk? I'm flummoxed." I think that Peter certainly damaged the space time continuum (yes it is the awesomest of phrases), I think that his breaking through simply damaged it enough to *allow* the machine to work, not that the amount of time in question was particularly significant. As for why that day...this is where you start getting tricky when it comes to fiction and causality, particularly since we're not 100% on the rules of time travel in the Fringe-verse, and its clear that causality is not entirely linear in the Fringe-verse. If you think in fully linear terms, you have a time travel paradox in that very episode, the wife scratches out her notes to prevent the husband from building the time machine, but in order for her to know she needed to scratch out the note he needed to build the machine. With the current trend of "themes" in the Fringe episodes (ie "You don't need to remember someone to have the affect you" clearly referencing Peter) I do think that there is a clue in the episode to how things will be fixed. For example, maybe the machine set the couple back to that day because that day HAD to exist in any causality in order for the time travel machine to be built. I mean think about it...Fringe division now has a TIME TRAVEL MACHINE. Crazy notion...but what if they are able to get it working enough for someone else to go back in time and save Peter from falling through the ice. Then the Observer didn't do it and technically didn't break any rules...? And now my head hurts...

Fortyseven

1. Sacrifice is a good answer.
3. I loved the special effects
4. The 4 years time frame isn't tied to Peter.
5. A long time.

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I'm wondering what it means that Raymond was causing time to jump backwards but Peter was jumping forward.

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'Really, no one got the thing about 4 years? Stephan Root's time machine was pushing him and his wife 4 years into the past before she got sick and to the day where she was on the verge of perfecting the formula. The amount of time had nothing to do with Peter.' mmhmm. And the fact that it ties in with how long the show has been on the air is pretty sweet too. Peter is wrong. He is in the right 'where' just a different 'when.' My money is on a time line convergence happening with Peter and Olivia - The Key and The Lever - working as one to make it so.

Modwild

Hey Lilo - I know that it was sending them back to just before she got sick. But WHY? If it had nothing to do with Peter, then why didn't it work until he came through? And what are the odds her formula would send her back to the time she was so close to perfecting her code, while she was sitting at her desk? I'm flummoxed.

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Really, no one got the thing about 4 years? Stephan Root's time machine was pushing him and his wife 4 years into the past before she got sick and to the day where she was on the verge of perfecting the formula. The amount of time had nothing to do with Peter.

Fringe Season 4 Episode 6 Quotes

Dr. Bishop doesn't get to choose which cases he works and which he doesn't. It's his job to investigate Fringe events, and until someone suggests something else, HE is a fringe event.

Broyles

Well, it's a wonderful device nonetheless, despite the poorly written instruction manual.

Walter
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