Comments by black white and red all over it

1. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/13/2013 10:30 PM
   
   To get back to the question I had about inconsistency, does anybody know if RJ wanted Hightower dead or alive at the end of season 3? Cho said they were going to take her alive with the assasin the rope and the drugs. But when O'Laughlin was there there was no body bag or rope, it looked like a kill all mission. So which was it? If RJ was willing to take Hightower back alive and do what he wanted, then I could see the same with Lisbon? Also final thing, did we ever find out why RJ wanted Hightower so badly?

2. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/13/2013 8:04 PM
   
   Btw real quick that does bring about an inconsistency, notice in the season 3 finale the assasain for Hightower brought rope and other things to knock her out. As Cho said, they were planning on taking her alive. Yet, when O'Laughlin comes its bombs away and he has every interest in killing. Was his target not to kill Hightower in that situation? It's a very weird situation to try to magine O'Laughlin not killing Hightower but having to kill his finacee(who I still think he felt something for, even if she was just a sacrifical limb). So I think the idea was for him to kill Hightower, but there in lies the inconsistency? And what happens if he doesn't get tipped off Lisbon knows he's the mole? Does he still shoot Lisbon? Lots of things to think about that scene I didn't necessairly think about 2 years ago. The show definitely has set it up that his goal clearly was to get rid of Van Pelt(in that ghost episode he never stated otherwise) but there are loos ends.

3. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/13/2013 7:59 PM
   
   Also, we have evidence to suggest that Jane knows Red John has an eye out for Lisbon, but we don't really have any evidence yet that Jane knows this or acts on it. The theory has always been that Jane keeps people away from them to protect them(he said that in the season 3 opener) but does that still apply and apply non stop with him? That was 3 years ago after a specfiic incident with Frye whom he felt specfic responsbility for in some way. What if this obsession to find RJ, to the pt he went a week without sleeping BEFORE this RJ bombshell that will only drive him 100X out of control shifts the focus away from protecting others? Again, it could easily be established in the opener next year that Jane is looking out for Lisbon and tells her RJ could go after her, but nothing of the such has happened yet in 5 years and while the writers may just be saving that storyline, I think it's still interesting that it hasn't happened at all in 5 years.

4. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/13/2013 7:55 PM
   
   Yeah the point of opportunity is the problem here with my idea, but I don't know if it's fair to just say it was a coincidence or just a matter of situation befitting on itself that O'Laughlin tried to kill Lisbon and Hardy tried to kill Lisbon. In that same episode, Red John sent a spy to take Hightower alive and bring her to her. Wainwright was alive in the car when they were caught last year going to RJ(so it's not unreasonable to presume they were bringing him to RJ alive). So the point is that RJ, if he values someone, definitely it's not in his interest to have them die in battle without any meaning. He values Lisbon too much. He wanted Jane to make her his sacrifice, not just someone who dies because she's in the way. If he valued Lisbon, why couldn't he have captured her alive in the O'Laughlin scene like the goal was with that assasin and Hightower in the hotel?

5. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/13/2013 7:35 PM
   
   Jane wants her to realize that for a second because with her inability to hide anything, that could cause terror and unravel whatever inside knowledge Jane might have at the time. And on top of that, the relationship they have would go to hell real fast if she realizes Lisbon is a target. But logic only dictates Red John will come after Lisbon; he went out of his way to warn Jane about his new ambition to kill and to make a killing as personal to Jane as possible. Could it possibly be any easier to add 1 and 1 together? Here's the question I have; how much does Jane know of this as a possibility? Theories have floated in the past that he's tried to be secretive to protect her, but do we have any substantial proof of that? Is Lisbon really on his mind with Red John's latest threats? I'm not so sure. Maybe this hunt for RJ and his new frustration from RJ beating him again distracts him from that in his preoccupation of hunting RJ at all costs and going a week without sleeping before RJ's revelations makes you wonder what Jane will do now.

6. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/13/2013 7:31 PM
   
   Continued: We could call it a gap in the plot, RJ should show more precision towards something Jane is so close with(and RJ has been well aware of this relationship for a while now) because the evidence in those scenes would suggest maybe RJ isn't interested in going after Lisbon. But I think common sense dictates otherwise; we know he will go after what Jane is close to(one side motive for killing Lorelei the way he did was he didnt like the relationship him and Lorelei had even if it wasn't a "relationship" in any sense of the word per se), it just seems like the inevitable, the one thing the show hasn't resorted to yet, the one trick it has left to draw our attention the last season(and we all know it will mesmerize anybody's attention). And with Red John talking about killing and "catching Jane", that would only have to suggest people close to him. But to answer your question once and for all, no, I don't think it's crossed her mind? Is that a bit unrealistic? Perhaps, but I don't get the sense it has, and I think Jane would prefer to keep it that way in any way possible.

7. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/13/2013 7:26 PM
   
   @Entwife: You just hit on the one cord that's basically the elephant in the room; Red John vs. Lisbon, it's the one card the show still has up its sleeve that it's shown no hints towards it. And the thing is, it's been the elephant in the room for years. That thought of Red John going after LIsbon has been a thing since season 2 really. And here's the thing, Red John has ALREADY gone after Lisbon. Think about it. His friend Harvey in season 1 tried to shoot her. O'Laughlin DID shoot her in season 3. Neither of those were by accident. Red John knows who he wants dead and who he wants alive, he purposely keeps Patrick alive and like Stiles said earlier he wants to take away everything he cares about him. In order to do that, you would think he wants to save up Lisbon for the right moment and situation, just like he saved up that happy memory killing. So then the question is, why did Red John have no problem with having his friends shoot her?

8. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/6/2013 2:23 PM
   
   Continued: That's part of what makes Red John Red John, you would never suspect him largely because he is only capable of manipulating and being powerful within his own environment with his own people, where he can seduce people and get them to die for him(how this happens we still have no idea which is a major error by the writers). Because it's not just lovers of Red John or people that you could argue didn't know they would die for him, it's people like last night who openly were ready for the possibility and readily took a suicidal pill even as just friends. One final thing @huisclothes: The tipping off is still an issue, the key to unraveling RJ is through his moles in the CBI and FBI and they aren't necessairly going to be so comfortable and calm with Jane's knowledge as RJ is. There just puppets and there the one's who make flaws that help Jane get closer(O'Laughlin, Lorelei etc.). Jane's strategy partly was for the FBI mole to ease up and let him lead Jane straight to him. There's still more to be uncovered in this law enforcement mole plot.

9. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

   5/6/2013 2:18 PM
   
   It's a matter of priority truly, most of our questions won't really get a good answer. You just have to hope the ones that you prioritize the most get answered and that those answers can help you fill in as many blanks as you can and accept it for what it is. Not everybody is ok with that, and that's fine. As for the show itself @euterpe makes an interesting pt about Partridge, but like I said before it's about picking and choosing flaws. There are huge flaws in any RJ theory with each of the seven, it's just for Partridge its easiest to see him playing a game with Jane, ultimately I really can picture the image of Partridge laughing at Jane when he is caught because he was in his sight the whole time and Jane cast him as some inferior lowlife. And I think that's part of the thing with RJ, he's powerful but within his network, to the rest of the world, he is awkward and powerless. That's why when we find him Bruno has said we will be dissapointed and that he truly is just another human being.

10. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

    5/6/2013 2:14 PM
    
    I think for me personally, the reason I am staying invested in this show is because of a) I still remain intrigued by the mystery behind Red John and where it will take us. b) Investment in the characters. Not just Jane(although he's been clearly been given 95% of the center stage now) but everybody, seeing how they change, how they develop through this drama, how Red John changes them. I always thought the strength of season's 1-3 above all else was how great all 5 of the characters were. You can't say that about this season because it was basically a 2 man show. If you aren't as personally interested in these two issues, then I can see how hard it is to stay interested in the show because @Watcher is absolutely right, it has gotten to the point now where there is no opposition to Jane and his antics in law enforcement. Forget about Bosco, or even Hightower we don't even have Wainwright anymore.

11. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

    5/6/2013 2:10 PM
    
    @Watcher: Everything you said was completely true, and I would have no problem with anybody deciding to not want to continue the show even after this long considering the flaws that have become apparent. At this point, it really is true that people who continue to be invested in the show are basically relying on the show's strength of the first 3 seasons(and for some people only the first). I don't think anybody has been particularly turned on by what's happened the past two years. If I'm giving grades like a professor the first 3 seasons would get an A, season 4 would get a B+ and this season would be in the B/B- range. That's not a good trend, and if it keeps up season 6 will be in the C range. As viewers we always have to give shows and writers some benefit of the doubt, they control us and in order for us to keep sanity and enjoy a show there has to be a level of trust that the show will take care of what we want.

12. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

    5/6/2013 11:24 AM
    
    @Ace: Yes according to that profile Stiles is too old to be RJ, and no he's not RJ(although that's for different reasons than just his initial profile). I'd be careful how much weight I put in that profile, it was done a LONG time ago, things have changed alot since then, and consider this; the show knows the profile they put out there and Stiles age. There's a reason for that and why they decided to have him on the list. I don't think you can just eliminate someone based on their age on that list(although again I don't take Stiles as much of an RJ suspect directly himself although he definitely has a role in this whole saga with key information).

13. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

    5/6/2013 11:04 AM
    
    @Butcher; I don't think the show would give away that obvious of a clue to the viewers based on all the deception we've seen over the years from them. I agree with the consensus that it was "he is many" and while it was probably Jared and not Red John who wrote it, I'm not sure if Red John really cared that he wrote it(back then the whole pt of the episode was to show how much more powerful Red John was than Jane realized, I don't think RJ would care of Jared putting something up saying he is many, not really a clue just a show of power). The best way to go about this RJ predicting is ultimately there are always tricks up the show's sleeve, whoever they show serious clues to make us suggest it could be RJ or who could be shady, it never is. What you see is never what you get with this show. That above any logic or deduction based on clues is why I don't take Hafner, Stiles, Bertram or Kirkland as serious suspects. I really think Partridge fits perfectly on so many levels.

14. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

    5/6/2013 10:41 AM
    
    continued: to think we never will. 2) There are certainly ideas about how RJ could get the list of those 7 names, but I don't get how people are saying it'd be easy for him to? Sure he knows all about the crimes himself and his accomplices which Jane doesn't know, but knowing who Jane's list will be requires him to know alot about each of those 7. How does he really know that much about Reede Smith? It's more than just stalking Jane and his list, in fact I don't think that's really a big factor here. And I'm not sure if its his moles in the CBI and FBI feeding him info either. I don't know what it is really. Finally, for the list of 7, I really do strongly think its Brett Partridge, one of the reasons I think the show gave us 7 names is because they know many fans will end up w a good idea of who RJ is and the story here is more the process of catching him, working through his networks and seeing who RJ takes down from Jane. Hence the reason to create a new game with new rules.

15. The Mentalist Review: The Final Seven

    5/6/2013 10:35 AM
    
    Couple things: 1) This show is going down too dangerous of a road here, the more omnipotent and god like they make Red John, the more the dissapointment in the end and the more loose threads they won't even come close to tying up. Now, they're even going as far as saying RJ has psychic powers, yikes. The whole pt of the season was to get closer to finding RJ, to see his game and understand him more. Sure we have 7 names, but are we really any closer? There's a whole new game now the writers created and we have no idea what to expect. In general, I like the idea of a new game, but it was very rushed, the RJ arch usually lasts a few episodes to end the yr, this yr really it only lasted the last 5 min of the finale. Also NOBODY still has any clue why all of RJ's associates are so willing to get rid of themselves the moment they are caught. It's possible the psychic vodoo influence of RJ is on his friends themselves, but we still have no good answer for this and I'm beginning to think we never will.

16. Red John's Rules

    5/6/2013 1:58 AM
    
    its in the process of finding Partridge and what to do when they interact and the battle RJ puts up. The show just doesn't have enough potential suspects to really set up this RJ drama as a situation where anybody could be RJ, and from what we've seen in 5 years they have no interest in making RJ a major character or one they've portrayed as sketchy like Kirkland or Hafner, so that leaves them with only a few smaller characters to choose from and once you do that it's more about the process of unraveling through RJ's connection and games and getting to him without him getting to you. 2 other things we really have to see next year: 1) This RJ friend in the FBI. They talked about it in the opener and mentioned it in the 2:30 promo for the finale, but no development on it this year. 2) What Kirkland's plan and end game is. I don't think it's that crazy that RJ knows who Jane's list could be, but I think he relied on info from those in the CBI and FBI big time and I think info from Kirkland could be part of that. Regardless, Kirkland is playing this whole other game and a big part of next season will be figuring out what it is.

17. Red John's Rules

    5/6/2013 1:54 AM
    
    One of the major takeaways from that exchange at the end was the "handshake" was a legitimate clue, Red John even admitted as such "calling it a lucky break" and the first one Jane had. That wasn't RJ just playing with Jane, that was something RJ didn't want Jane to know. He was really mad at Lorelei about it, so it was legitimate and it probably drove him to spook Jane the way he did there. Also about who RJ is, I'll say this outright: I really don't think it's going to be a major character they've tried to set up as an RJ suspect or made directly suspicious with RJ activities. It's just not going to be, if there's one thing we've learned from 5 years of this show is what you see isn't what you get. There's alot more to this story than what's been led on, hence the idea of the rule change. I really think it's Partridge, I think the reason the show gave us the list now is because the unpredictability and real story isn't in who RJ is(they know smart fans are thinking Partridge) its in getting to him and seeing what happens when he knows it's Partridge.

18. Red John's Rules

    5/6/2013 12:42 AM
    
    The two biggest questions I want to hear your answers to: 1) How did RJ know who Jane would narrow the final 7 down to before he actually did(he sent this around episode 16, Jane didn't get the list down to 7 until episode 22), what theories do you have? 2) What did RJ mean when he said "i'll keep hunting until I catch you?" We know he doesn't want to kill Jane, what are your theories on what this could mean?

19. Red John's Rules

    5/6/2013 12:07 AM
    
    And the other problem with this episode is Bruno is directly feeding what he was worried about....making RJ too powerful and setting up inevitable dissapointment when fans find out who he was. This was something in an interview he directly said a yr ago he was worried about, and then he goes on and has conversations about RJ having "super natural powers" and reading Patrick Jane to such extremes. This is a big hole there digging themselves in and we all know they won't satisfy all our questions about RJ and the plot. But they continue to open up more and more questions rather than answer them, there just asking for a mess at the end. We already know we're probably not going to ever get a good answer for how RJ knows Jane's childhood dream and there will be flaws in how RJ knew of Jane's list of 7. Prediction: I really feel Partridge is RJ. I will give the show credit here, they did a good job making the focus not about RJ itself but how can Jane catch him and what RJ could do to Jane and who he cares about. They just went about it in a bizarre way.

20. Red John's Rules

    5/6/2013 12:02 AM
    
    The problem ultimately with this episode is that the whole pt of this season was for fans to learn more about RJ, to not make him a mystery, for us to get closer to catching him......ultimately though, we've only gotten further...we really know nothing about RJ....just more and more questions. After 5 years we still have ZERO clue as to why everybody who works with him(who's just friends with him even) will die for him when there are in custody. this season the RJ arch was way too forced it felt, even this episode, compare the finale last yr to this yr and how much drama there was. This year, for 53 min, we basically had nothing but a normal episode, it was only in the end when BOMBSHELLS dropped and I mean BOMBSHELLS that completely change everything about this show. You couldn't have put that earlier in the season? That to me just speaks to laziness and or uncreative writing.

21. Red John's Rules

    5/5/2013 11:18 PM
    
    I'll just say this, a bizarre ending to what was a rather bizarre season in many ways. Don't know what to think, I really don't.

22. The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware

    5/5/2013 11:16 PM
    
    I just finished watching also, since no one else is spoiling I won't but wow, I really don't know what to think of this episode, I don't like it, I don't dislike it, I don't know what I think of it, it was all just really surreal. I'm ready to discuss as soon as the review of this episode comes out later tonight.

23. The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware

    5/4/2013 9:30 PM
    
    Someone probably has already done this but here's my guess of 7.
    1) Brett Partridge: This is my and many other's lead suspect by a good bit, everything fits well here, and he's on the finale tomorrow. I would be absolutely shocked if he's not one of the seven.
    2) Osvaldo Ardiles: My second suspect on the list, he tried to put away Jane for life, theyve have some differences, I think the writers have him on it.
    3) Ray Hafner: I don't think it's him but I think the show wants him on there and that he'll be on several times next yr to add drama.
    4) Robert Kirkland: Jane knows there's something very wrong with him and a secret agenda, he's not RJ but the show definitely wants him to be a suspect.
    5) Bret Stiles: He's not RJ but he knows who he is and has alot of good info. I'd be surprised if he's not on the list.
    6) Jason Cooper: The wildcard, a pure guess, but I think the show goes with the Visualize thing and has him as a suspect.
    7) Linus Wagner: 2A-2B on my suspect list with Ardiles, lot of strange wild things about him, he easily could not be on it but I think it would make sense for him to. If he's on the list, I think he's a legit suspect.

24. The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware

    5/4/2013 9:21 PM
    
    @KM: We fought and prayed so hard for a season six, I'm just absolutely thrilled to have that, let's not look ahead:) Anyway, I don't think it's realistic to expect anything more than that, Bruno in an interview after last season said he had "two or so seasons to tie things together", writers are usually the most optimistic people in the world about the fate of their show, he wouldn't have only said two if there a shot at more. Besides, he has said season 6 is the ending of the RJ drama and at other times he has said RJ would be revealed in the series finale. It's been obvious for years when RJ is caught is when this series is over, unfortunately we won't get to see Jane after RJ but I guess that's not really the focus of the show either(there just isn't enough plot or creativity from the writers to have a post RJ story). Anyway, that's not why I'm posting it's the night before the finale so I wanted to take a guess at who the last seven suspects might be.

25. The Mentalist Review: The Mystery in the Tupperware

    4/30/2013 2:18 AM
    
    Does anybody know if Kirkland is signed on for being in the finale next weekend? I didn't see his name under the list of cast for this week and if they want to start to tie this storyline of him murdering Lennon, next week is the last chance to do it this season.