Btw they just posted the final 10 of the list of red john suspects, no CBI Ron! Damn that was my lead suspect by far, it's not him then, and that is surprising but I'm also really relieved(that would far too predictable and really it would have been pointless, there's no greater message being sent there)
@Entwife: Yeah it was the tongue, actually it was pretty obvious looking back at it, I feel kinda of dumb now. I'm not sure if that was him saying LaRoche, LaRoche at the end, if it was that easy, LaRoche probably would have been charged or at the very least there would be way more suspicion of him and him potentially doing it and rumors starting about it. that was a good way of the show having the box content being revealed, but it raises a couple questions? We know LaRoche will break the law for his best interest, but why the tongue---to keep him from talking? Was there something else he could say that could defame LaRoche or would he be able to convince those of his innocence(remember they said at the beginning there wasn't much evidence for the crime?) They didn't go off that idea any more either which was kind of dissapointing, but I'm surprised there was no lead in this episode to the finale, the RJ story arch must be really light this year, that's too bad.
not a huge fan of tonight's episode, the first half looked good but this ended up being nothing more than the story going back to its initial crutch of CBI moles. Nothing more than that really. I for the record though like that the show didn't tell us what's in the box. The unfortunate part though is this red john arc basically is going to be a 1 episode finale this year, in previous years, we've either had a double header or two episodes in back to back weeks that were essentially related to each other.
Btw, why was the ending so significant of him having his tongue cut off, I just had trouble understanding why it was a big deal? Thoughts?
@Entwife: Yes that was some fantastic graphics and effects by the producers, those, Jane's smile at the end and the camera fading away on Kirkland and his map almost made up for the fact that there was basically nothing that happened in that development of that after the first 15 min of the episode. I still don't know what the show is trying to make Kirkland; obviously he's not some good play it by the rules guy like Wainwright was, but what is he? Jane's enemy? Perhaps maybe on Jane's side and he wants to get all the info possible rather than going through Jane and playing his game? I'm more convinced than ever he's not associated with RJ, but that doesn't eliminate much. Also, that smile could mean a million things yet it probably has a really simple explanation that'll become clear at the beginning of next week. I don't think he planted anything, I think he just acknolwedges that there is something greater going on and for a lack of a better phrase "it's on".
@Vlasek: I get what your saying but there's a difference between killing 31 people and having a whole agency built to deceive and manipulate people vs what Kirkland did. Murder yes, but people have to be careful about overstating how evil Kirkland and saying that that one murder shows he has the style and mindset of a Red John. Also I'll go back to the same tweet I have a million times, the writers tweeted back in Sept 2011 that we had already seen RJ in episodes before. No show with a semblance of credibility would just make up that kind of nonsense. Kirkland of course showed up after that, as did many of those suspects we saw on that CBS link posted. I just find it really interesting how there pushing "there will only be 7" before the end of the season, clearly there is some tricks up their sleeve. You have to extend a show a whole new season with their only being 7 suspects, you have to have some plan for that and it's not something we'll expect.
unless they plan on making 18/20 episodes random cases of the week, that means that there's going to be alot more to this show than just knowing who RJ might be and the obstacles to getting him like possible moles, protecting people like Lisbon and uncovering RJ's agenda and end game. I don't think we're going to get to most of it this season, but the fact that it looks like there's a deeper game here that exists is encouraging and not something i was sold on happening. Couple small things 1) Van Pelt has been so disengaged this season it just seems dumb to randomly have her with another guy. Last year she clearly wasn't ready for that, she was barely on this year so we don't know what could have changed. 2) The streak of CBI Ron appearances is still alive. I don't think that really means as much since this isn't going t o be the last season but it's still not insignificant. This is probably still the lead RJ suspect as of now(although I no longer think it's actually him, I'll take the field).
The Rigbsy and Van Pelt thing to me just reeks of a forced storyline; the connection/interactions they had just are so different than they were 2 years ago, the whole thing is just foolish to me and reeks of trying to pique interest in a cheap way. The storyline I generally liked, we saw Jane uncover his murderer in a different way this week although I'm not sure what the end message here was of son killing dad and son being attracted to his sister. The show could have done more with that at the very end. Here's what we know; the show is going out of its way to do 2 things 1) make kirkland beyond sketchy and scary 2) throwing the spoiler Jane will have his list down to 7 before the end of the finale. Clearly, the search is going to take on a very clear focus. That means there'll be change ups, as the writers have said "the battle will take on a whole new focus by the end of the year". The show has to go a whole season 6 with us knowing RJ could only be a few people, unless they plan on making 18/20 episodes random cases of the week, that means that there's going to be alot more to this show than just knowing who RJ might be and the obstacles to getting him like possible moles, protecting people like Lisbon and uncovering RJ's agenda and end game.
Also the show is advancing the storyline in a time period ahead of what I expected; I didn't think Jane would know Kirkland was on to his serious investigation until later, we already know he is with 3 episodes remaining. I was disappointed with how the second half of Jane vs Kirkland went; it was so promising to see them breaking in so early in the episode but after that nothing happened and the fact that the only time they showed Jane was at the very end when he found out about Kirkland means the writers didn't have anything good to put in the storyline so they just went to that cop out. Weak. Also that smile can mean a million things; I don't think it's Jane planted anything. I think Jane just knows it's on and that this RJ game is about to take another turn. I'm not even sure he knows it's Kirkland(although it would make sense based on the show's history for him to end up knowing him).
Another solid episode, the case was good and definitely above the norm for this season and the Kirkland story line advanced beyond what I expected. I'm now more convinced than ever this Kirkland-RJ minion stuff is complete nonsense. Before I just thought the show as trying to mislead us and playing that storyline too hard, but there clearly is a much greater game here Kirkland is playing. He's playing chess while everybody else is playing checkers and we don't know what Jane's playing yet. What this game is like I said earlier nobody knows, but it's much deeper and darker than we thought. I don't think it's just Kirkland wants to know who RJ is, there is something greater here. Maybe he's covering up some act of his, maybe there's a greater conspiracy, or maybe there's just something he really needs to know about the RJ case for himself. We'll see. We finally see someone against Jane in law enforcement who shows no regard for morals or the law and it's a really good change up.
In many ways I am conjecturing, we've just seen it too many times with this show before though with me not to be ready for it times. How many times they set us up with one idea really clearly and then completely change things up? They've just come so hard at the Kirkland as Mr. Sketchy and RJ associate so hard the story just has to be alot different than we expect with many more layers. Sure its speculation admittedly, but really that is what all this is. The precedence we have is of the show doing things the way they have for so many years that this Kirkland story to me is going to take on a very different direction and that it's too easy just to have him as an RJ minion. The writers knows RJ minions get killed all the time so they dont rat, I really think there just playing off that tendency with us. But only time will tell.
personal level or antagonizing him at a personal level. Ultimately, this is what the final 4 episodes are going to come down to. Kirkland knows Janes knows things and has secret plans(and the general theme of how he said this episode "when I am ever on duty?") and a mindset and Jane knows there's something with Kirkland. He'll probably know it was Kirkland who murdered Lennon or have some other suspicion about him. And then this will become a much bigger chess game involving the CBI, FBI and Homeland. What the end game is, what both want, we'll have to see but Lisbon is going to get tied into this and is going to have to decide what she believes and there is going to be a game Jane goes through of looking at everybody to see who is an RJ friend and who isn't. Nobody is safe. To me these last 4 episodes will be an expanded version of what we saw at the end of season 3, only now there's another game with Kirkland we know going on but don't know any of the rules for or the end goal.
You have to remember its not really in Kirkland's interest for Jane to have any kind of legit info about RJ or who he is. He's just going to put everybody in harms way. Kirkland is also probably aware of the CBI/FBI's past of having insiders for RJ. Now this isn't how the storyline is going to play out, the writers aren't going to do something like this, but in some way or another Kirkland not wanting Jane to have a leg up and go out of control could have something to do with this. Of course there's alot more(that has to do with why Kirkland is a murderer and what else he's done in the past) but that's perhaps a start. The other big thing I wanted to point out is Kirkland really is showing no interest in Jane and his personality and playing with him. He simply wants him out of the way, is dealing with him like law burreaucracy and enforcement has. He has a way of him, but bottom line is this isn't like RJ or his friends who have often had some kind of interest in Jane at a personal level or antagonizing him at a personal level.
I'm not sure we can quite make the assumption that Kirkland knows who RJ is because he knows that Lennon knew who he was. To me this is a much bigger assumption than the one I made earlier in the year that Stiles must know who RJ is or be connected with him in some way after episode 13 and that wasn't meant with much agreement. But there are some interesting theories here, definitely more thoughtout and in depth than anything I've thought of yet. As for the Kirkland double agent ala Lorelei in the end; that would perhaps be something to watch for but I think the show has played its hand so much as Kirkland coming across as some sly deceptive and cunning mind who they're trying to gleam in RJ suspicion that I think him working for RJ in general just isn't happeneing. There is another motive for why he killed Lennon---it could revolve around in basic way about not wanting Jane to get information, go after RJ himself and getting Kirkland and everybody else in a mess and put them at danger.
I really want to know but alas I don't think we'll ever get a great answer for. I also think it's interesting in the description for the next episode it says that Kirkland goes after Jane to see what he knows about the RJ case and not the other way around. There's clearly a complex chess game going on here amongst masterminds of sorts, its the battle now of Jane deciphering who in Homeland/FBI/CBI there is to trust and who there isn't. And how Lisbon ties into this is fascinating, we've seen her trust Jane more and give into his antics but when he actually accuses specific members of law enforcement, lets see what Lisbon does. How will her reaction be different from 2 years ago with O'Loughlin. Finally, also there has been alot of CBI Ron lately, the fact we still have another year has cooled me off a bit on him being the lead RJ candidate. Again, red herring, too obvious by the writers, but he would still probably be my favorite at this point.
murderer this early in the storyline with 4 episodes left--there definitely is something bigger here and Kirkland has his own game he's playing, be it for the FBI or whomever. This will also open up the storyline the writers were talking about last summer finally; Jane distinguishing amongst the FBI and Homeland who is on Red Johns side and who isn't. We saw Jane's face at the end, he knows Kirkland is behind the trouble in some way. 2) LaRoche is back----I always thought there was unfinished business with him besides that secret Jane blackmailed him with. He came across in a more fun side this episode but he will be back before the end of the year and it will mean something in some way. I always thought he was a potential minion in some shape or form. 3) What would Kirkland have done if RJ's friend had said he knew Kirkland or didn't remember Lorelei and the shooting? Probably killed him, but what were the reasons behind asking that? Above everything else, that's one thing I really want to know but I doubt we'll get a great answer on it. I think its interesting the preview for the next episode says Kirkland goes after Jane to see what he knows about RJ not the other way around.
The degree to which they tried to show Kirkland as someone decivious and someone working against Jane just tells you there is much much more to this story than meets the eye. And by the way I'm all for this Kirkland and Jane having awkward tension and a sense of hostility. We don't see this kind of relationship between Jane and that many people, Kirkland doesn't get outright mad at him and remains mysterious nonetheless. Also, hopefully we can put the rest this idea that Lisbon and Kirkland have a thing. But there are a couple things I take away from this episode 1) Kirkland is a murderer!! Duh, but the fact the show went out of its way so early(we have 4 episodes left) to show him as some criminal who will break any rules he needs to is very facinating. He's hardly the strict rule follower some thought he came across as earlier in the season. He's clearly playing a game and has motives for what he did----the question is what? But it's very telling the writers decided to make him a murderer this early---there's alot more to come with this.
Finally got the chance to see this episode, strong episode one of the better ones of the year and definitely miles better than what we had seen in many of the previous episodes. Even the case of the week which has been pretty ordinary much of the year was pretty good--nice twists and they did a good job showing character development amongst the suspects themselves. Of course none of this is the major news; let me start off by saying for the record I don't think Kirkland is working with Red John and I'm kind of surprised to see all the comments saying he definitely is(I haven't gone through all 33 pages but its seems like that's the consensus). It's just too much of a red herring and set up by the Mentalist, we've watched this show for 5 years, when was the last time something they were trying to go out of their way to portray or create suspicion about actually ended up being what we thought?
Someone may have already posted this but I figured I'd give an update about TM's future. So TGW got that syndication deal they needed last week, there just about guranteed to come back.TM really is the only show on CBS that truely is on the bubble although they could perhaps surprise us and bring back NCIS NY. So here is the situation once and for all: If CBS decides to expand their sitcom lineup or upgrade U Boss to Friday night TM gets axed. If they don't, then TM will most likely be back. It's hard to get a read on CBS's plan for sitcoms and expansion with shows although its true they tend not to variate much. Writing seems to make it look like there might be a 6th season but that's getting into some real grey areas. Overall it looks better than I thought a few weeks ago but it's far from any sure thing. Ratings at this point now are also irrelevant, the show knows its fate and ratings won't change it now.
@KM: are the ratings out yet for last night's episode---the one on the 10th was 1.5 so if this one was better does that mean about a 1.7 or so?
The one good thing about these non RJ episodes that touch on subjects the show hasn't in the past is it doesn't look like the show is rushing towards an RJ end. Next week's episode talks about Jane interviewing the man in the coma who worked with RJ but seems centered about an unrelated random issue. The more non RJ episodes means the show is rushing the RJ arc less and less and thats a positive sign in the battle to get a 6th season; a very positive sign. The writers already have known whether they'll be back or not; if they keep up this non RJ pace it'll look more and more like there dragging out the RJ storyline and that will in turn mean a sixth season. Still really early though, 2 straight non RJ episodes even this late in the year if next week's case is that isn't means to rush to judgment but it's a positive in the grand scheme of things.
at it than TM. That's not TM's calling card. If I want to see issues such as military and sexual abuse being shown in a more thorough analysis that tackles it at the roots of the issue and the true effects it has on people and see forms of altruism towards those, TM isn't the way through which I want that shown. AT the end of the day, it is about the characters, their uniqueness, personal lives and dark sides, that's what has made this show click. That's why Simon Baker has been such a hit and has been able to carry such a burden of responsibility for this show, why this RJ theme has worked and why the other characters are unique and able to fit in the story line. There's always a fine line between characters and development of the show vs touching issues that make viewers think and have a powerful impact. The RJ story line has obviously succeeded at that. There are many other ex's from the show like Volker, Van Pelt and her past, Fugue in Red + Blinking Red light last year that have done this well. Last night's example did not.
@euterpe nailed it this really is about preferences, some people could watch Patrick Jane talk about his favorite ice cream flavor for an hour and be set for life, the power of his charm for the show is just that and its a testament to him. When they see someone like him involved in such serious real life issues like this, you can see why they are so intrigued by it. Really, everything on the show last night he's done before, it's just now done in the context of helping warriors and suddenly the show allows it to be shown from the perspective of him being "Altrustic" and "helping solders". But that just doesn't sell for me and alot of others, if you want this show to touch on deeper issues then the way they did it by having Jane teach a memory palace, have a type of interaction with an ex solder and have that ex solder have a type of breakdown you see on TV shows alot isn't the way to do it. There are many others shows that do this and do a much more thorough thought provoking job at it. That's not what TM is about.
continued: This was probably one of only 2-3 episodes I've watched of the series where I didn't. Really seems like the writers just relied on the emotional idea of troops and their recovery being brought into the episode as all they needed and didn't put in the effort they usually do with storylines and character development. All the little things from memory palaces, to jane interrupting classes, to him trying to recover the solder's memory, to an organization which clearly had nasty activity inside it, the show has done before. Like I said earlier, it's possible to have a show that touches on a really emotional deep theme like troops and their recovery which people never talk about without the show actually being anything more than ordinary. I think that's what happeeed here; theres alot more they could have done with this military idea that I've seen other shows that use this type of story line do.
continued: Solider has trouble with his memory, is out of touch with society, struggles readjusting etc. the show's best attempt to try to act on this after it was shown throughout the episode was the memory palace idea which to me like I said is pretty cliche by now. The whole scene of the solder recalling parts of his memory to me also seemed incomplete, especially to the end, just kind of seemed forced and after that the story just forced out so typical jealous insider killing someone story they go to every week but often find to still make intriguing and a surprise. It wasn't this week and there was little in character development and interaction either. Outside of watching cho salute the trops and being more of his old season 2/3 self in interviews and Jane interacting with troops and showing thanks, we really saw nothing unique about the characters and interactions. Every week with the show I always learn something or see a different perspective from characters I didn't before, this week was probably the first time ever I didn't. Seemed like the show really didn't put its full effort into developing story lines, everything they went to they've done in some form or another in the past and they kept it all rudimentary.
Meh, I'm just not seeing what the rest are, to me this wasn't much different from the one two weeks ago which people seemed indifferent towards and thought was rather average. It's possible to have an emotional intruiging storyline that pulls at many without the episode being anything special and that's what happened to me here. The actual case itself lacked the usual twist the show usually has, that was about as plain and rudimentary inside job the show has had in a while in terms of developing the story line or creating mystery. The memory palace idea at the end has been way over done by now; this is about the 36th time the show has tried tying that into a story and it always feels somewhat forced. The idea of a soldier having memory problems and clearly being distraught is also something that's been done by ALOT of tv shows over the years, really what TM did here was nothing I haven't seen before.
Royal Pains
Comments by black white and red all over it (Page 3)
Red and Itchy
Red and Itchy
The Mentalist Review: The Love Doctor
Btw, why was the ending so significant of him having his tongue cut off, I just had trouble understanding why it was a big deal? Thoughts?
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: An Odd Little Town
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Alien Lizard Vibe
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace
The one good thing about these non RJ episodes that touch on subjects the show hasn't in the past is it doesn't look like the show is rushing towards an RJ end. Next week's episode talks about Jane interviewing the man in the coma who worked with RJ but seems centered about an unrelated random issue. The more non RJ episodes means the show is rushing the RJ arc less and less and thats a positive sign in the battle to get a 6th season; a very positive sign. The writers already have known whether they'll be back or not; if they keep up this non RJ pace it'll look more and more like there dragging out the RJ storyline and that will in turn mean a sixth season. Still really early though, 2 straight non RJ episodes even this late in the year if next week's case is that isn't means to rush to judgment but it's a positive in the grand scheme of things.
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace
The Mentalist Review: The Broken Memory Palace