There you go again, people say something you don't like and you get on your self-righteous horse and start flinging insults in the name of protecting your show. You're the meanest one here, Entwife. I'm happy to point it out now. The comment you wrote to Smart_Idiot was harsh and hateful in the extreme, go back and check it out- just for saying he didn't like the forthcoming episode! Nobody spews more hate and bile than you. I know I'm one that you despise (I know when I'm being talked about, I used the term critic on myself), and you called me a bully once. No. Read what you write, you are a bully. You can say it's not true because you act like you're protecting the respectful atmosphere, but it certainly isn't respectful to be cutting people down who don't agree with you. Check yourself. I know you'll follow with a stream of vitriolic "bile" (a favorite), and you probably won't be able to call me out but it won't matter to me. I won't be giving you the satisfaction of checking back to see if you reply. So, go ahead, prove me right. I'll never know. But everyone else will ; )
No, it doesn't surprise me one bit, it's what I always expected him to do. It's one reason he's an interesting character to watch, but nobody you'd want to be involved in any way with in real life. (And I'm an anti-Jisbon-shipper...)
Nobody has the answers to those questions, BW&R, not even the writers. Make something up that satisfies you. Me, I'm done pondering any details or clues about Red John. There's nothing there, it's like the whole thing evaporated in front of our eyes.
Uh, you didn't see him suffering? He was terrified and begging for his life, big eyes blinking "scared to die"...I call that suffering.
Fortunately this is just a TV show and not Life, so it doesn't put me in any big moral conundrums. Bruno Heller goes down as the most overrated and overpaid creator of a show. He took everybody's interest in the intriguing Red John story and all the fun dark details all the way to the bank for 5+ years and then blew off the fact that they didn't actually HAVE a Red John story--a total middle finger to his audience. Well again, this just being a silly TV show, it's not hard to decide not to waste my time lining Bruno Heller's pockets only to be dismissed. The Mentalist has jumped the shark and maybe I'll check in a couple more times, but probably not. There are much, much better shows out there that have good writing teams, and many good actors--not just one. Bye bye Jane. But by the way, kudos to Xander Berkeley for filling shoes that would be hard for any actor, given the expectations. I think he deserved more screen time as Red John.
I think you make a great point about Jane ditching the situation after killing Red John. I think it would be a shame if they didn't have him lose a piece of his soul after how it all went down. I didn't see it as an honor killing or anything like that in the end, and yes, it would have been cool if he'd had the good character to stand up and take responsibility for his kills. But also, we know that Patrick Jane is a selfish, self-serving guy who acts a coward much of the time. He's no hero for killing Red John, in fact RJ had a point in letting Jane know he'd be bringing himself down a bit to RJ's level with intentional killing...agh, I cannot believe I'm still talking about this. Again, Baker has done a wonderful job with Jane. That is all. ; )
Yeah, something like that. But again, the writers didn't know where they were going with it, so your conclusion is as good as any.
This is a review site, so...this is my review.
Ok, it wasn't the worst of the worst. I was totally happy with the idea of McAllister as Red John, and I think Xander Berkeley did well with the paltry little they gave him to do...but his writing was unfortunately some of the worst. And you know, I get it, Jane really didn't care about connecting the dots in Red John's story, he just wanted clues to help him get close enough to kill him, he had his grim task and he was going to do it. I get it that at the core of the Red John character there is just a jerky dude who wants people to tell him he's cool--but it was jarring to see it laid out so literally, that the veil dropped SO quickly. We needed some easing into the character before expecting us to switch perceptions of Red John so dramatically. I get it that what they were playing at is closure for Jane, not closure for Red John or US.
Well, you know what, when it comes down to it, I was actually interested in Red John beyond Patrick's closure. This is a TV show, and they spent a long time building a very intricate story about a character they just flushed down the toilet five minutes after showing his face. And his face was not the most compelling thing about Red John, just his physical identity.
I feel the writers used their audience by trading on their good faith, that all the teasers and tantalizing clues alluding to some dark and twisted juiciness would come to fruition, to jerk the story around and make Red John into something that was impossible to actually pull together. Because in the end it's clear they really had no direction or story to fill in for us with Red John, even Heller has said he didn't have a character fleshed out for Red John for the first 3 seasons! Coincidentally, the end of season 3 is when they gave a much better ending for the Red John story. I think the writers just put in clues that sounded cool at the time, but when it came time to give us the story, the truth is they had let Red John become something they weren't prepared to explain. The right hand had no idea what the left hand was doing. They made their money off of our belief they were going to give us a hell of a story.
There will be about 5% of their hardcore fans (some of them live here I imagine) who will say they don't care, that closure for Patrick was enough and Heller and Co. can do no wrong. That won't keep the show in business, and after the lazy, sloppy, self-indulgent display that was Episode 8, I'm not sure they deserve to. Simon Baker, being a splendid and deep actor, has elevated The Mentalist far beyond its true quality--just a B-grade CBS procedural.
There were such sloppy goofs in this episode I laughed out loud a few times. ( Jane's family conveniently buried in Sacramento? How did Cordero miss the PIGEON in Jane's pocket when he patted him down...the list goes on.) And one burning question remains for me: How did Theresa Lisbon get to the top of ANY law enforcement agency--"What??? You bugged my car? What??? Red John can discover the tracking on his phone?" Omg. Cho was the only CBI agent, or FBI agent who didn't end up looking like a fool.
Basically, I think the details of Red John were one of the main things propping up the show besides Baker, and the writers just dismissed that--but by doing that they dismissed 5 seasons of value in their show, and 5 seasons of viewer's good faith and attention. And no, I do not watch the show because of anything called a "Jisbon". They treated the end of their most compelling storyline with such sloppiness and then blew it off in the press (I'm looking at you, Heller), that they give me no reason to feel that the Blake Association plot or anything else will be worth any investment of time or attention--they'll probably just scrub that in the end too.
Comment modified at November 25, 2013 13:30
Rihanna, people said it was a trick because they were so upset and disappointed that they were in denial and wanted to believe something better was in store. It wasn't.
After all that, you still have so much faith in Heller...I hope you can stop looking, Anitra, and get some peace. It's done. They didn't have a plan with all those exciting things, they didn't have a story to tell with Red John. There is no conspiracy within the show or amongst the writers. It's just a case of overrated writers indulging some half-baked ideas and then realizing they had no way to get the story together after they created that particular monster. Look at it from a distance, they basically made Red John impossible. They ask us to be satisfied with such vague statements as "I AM the Blake Association", because they have no better answer. Red John got away from their capabilities as storytellers to bring to fruition, so they slapped it together and gave us dismissive explanations like "oh, these guys are usually anticlimactic and boring anyway. The details don't matter." The details are what made the show interesting, aside from Simon Baker's performance. And the show won't make it on Baker's shoulders alone.
Actually, I read last night that Heller said for the first 3 episodes he didn't have an actual character for Red John, he was just a concept, so they were really just randomly doing whatever they wanted with "clues" etc. What I hear from Heller and see in the episode is that when it came time to tie it all together and give us their brilliant story, they didn't have a freaking clue. They had put this thing or that thing in because hey, wouldn't that be cool, with no intention of actually working it out. And then they just blew it all off.
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