Arrow

Wednesdays 8:00 PM on The CW
Arrow
TV Fanatic Works Better with Prime Instant Video
40,000 other titles are available to watch now.

Arrow Round Table: "The Scientist"

by at .  Updated at . Comments

Welcome to the latest Arrow round table. This week we're examining Arrow Season 2 Episode 8, which means delving into the introduction of Barry Allen, Barry's possible disruption of the Olicity pairing and the shot The Arrow sent into Roy's leg, among other things.

On the round table this week, we have our regular members, staff writers Kate Brooks, Carissa Pavlica and Hank Otero of Hank's Entertainment Site. Also joining us are two people who have made a splash in the comments section of Arrow - Robin Harry, who has recently started covering Brooklyn Nine-Nine for TV Fanatic, and Marko Pekic, username Spindae. Welcome them, and hit the comments with your thoughts on this week's questions!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

What were your first impressions of Barry Allen's introduction to the Arrow-verse?

Kate: Adorable and perfect. Grant Gustin was great casting choice! I really also enjoyed his chemistry with Felicity.

Spindae: He was tremendous. Grant showed of the perfect combination of geek, great smile and social weirdness. Barry was presented as a well-layered character and the Flash always being late was a funny thing.

Robin: I really liked him - the guy is my dream nerd! I loved how they lampshaded his youthful looks. I think his introduction into team Arrow AND his attraction to Felicity were handled perfectly - low on emotional drama, high on sensibility.

Hank: OK looks like I'm going to be the unpopular one around here LOL... first impression was "seriously that's The Flash?" I didn't find myself instantly drawn to the character, the way I was with Oliver Queen in the "Arrow" Pilot. That's not completely Grant Gustin's fault; I think he did a decent job with what the writers gave him to work with. I just had a tough time with all the goofiness and bumbling through the episode. It felt very Smallville to me (a show I quickly lost interest in). That said, by the third time watching "The Scientist," I did warm up to Barry a bit more. I have no doubt I'll be okay with the Arrow-verse version of Barry Allen come the mid-season finale. Now, do I think the character (as he appeared in last night's show) will successfully lead his own TV series? Remains to be seen but I, for one, would have a pretty hard time watching that show.

Carissa: As I said in the review, I was very shocked at the casting choice. However, they seem to have a different focus for Gustin as the Flash than I expected, and youth appears to play a part in it. I imagine Flash being lighter in tone than Arrow with some darker elements, while Arrow is dark with some lighter elements. These writers never cease to amaze me, and by the end of next week I'll probably be eagerly awaiting a Flash series.

Arrow RT Logo

How do you think Barry's presence will effect Olicity in the long run?

Kate: Help it. Right now, it'll probably damper it - obviously. But in the end, I think it will help Oliver realize how he feels about Felicity. I look forward to this journey.

Spindae: I think it will push them apart, not to far of course. I mean the moment Oliver called Barry to attend the party he let Felicity go. He saw she could be happy without him and have a carefree life. And Felicity letting Barry know his identity will be a new issue in their relationship, I doubt Oliver will be happy about that.

Robin: Felicity gets to choose between badass stud and adorable nerd. Honestly, some girls have all the luck. I don't think it'll have a long-term effect - the pairing will still happen - but I REALLY loved that Oliver wasn't all angsty and jealous right now. Spindae, I really think Oliver will understand the choice Felicity had to make to save his life.

Hank: I don't think Barry's presence will have a negative long term effect on Olicity. While there were definitely signs of jealousy on Oliver's part, I think he realized that Barry made her happy, which in turn, made Ollie happy. Instead of his own show, Barry would make a great addition to team Arrow. I hope, if The Flash is picked up to series, that Felicity appears on that show as well. Crossovers, à la "Vampire Diaries/The Originals". That would rock!

Carissa: I'm going to be the naysayer here. I think Oliver seeing Felicity with someone younger and with whom she shares more interests might lead to him backing off of his expression of feelings a bit. She quite easily fell for someone else, so is what she has for Oliver anything more than a crush? Time will tell, but it's possible Oliver may not give that to her now.

Do you think Brother Blood's serum will be connected to Slade Wilson and how might this impact his presence in present day timeline?

Kate: Yes! At least I feel this is where the story is taking us.

Spindae: Maybe not directly to Slade, but to Doctor Ivo. He could get a present time appearance. It will be interesting to see how Oliver intends to defeat the über-human warriors. My hope for this serum story (even though a long shot) is for the writers to make a connection to the Green Lantern Corps, something like the founders of the GLC created the Original serum or something like that.

Robin: Absolutely. I found it weird that the dude who curb stomped Oliver in the warehouse didn't stop to look at who he was. Perhaps all of this is to draw Oliver out for Slade or for Dr. Ivo.

Hank: Oh man Spindae, how amazing would a connection to the Green Lantern Corps be? True, it's probably a long shot, but I'd love that! I agree with Robin, there seems to be some kind of connection between the serum and Slade Wilson/Dr. Ivo. Oliver mentioned that Ivo is dead in the present, so perhaps Deathstroke is using the serum to get Oliver's attention. I'm curious to see how this storyline plays out.

Carissa: The serum is connected to Slade in some way. The blood from the eyes certainly indicates it's the same serum that Brother Blood is using. We also know that what he uses makes his soldiers appear to die before popping back to life bigger and better than ever. Slade was "dead" when Ivo stormed the submarine, but he could have come back from that and perhaps Oliver never knew. The flashbacks had to be more than coincidental, and if the serum was burned, it's coming from a blood donor. My vote is Slade Wilson. Dammit. Gimme my Manu Bennett in the present as well as the past!

The Arrow shot Roy in the leg. What do you expect Roy to take away from that?

Kate: I think it will piss him off! But I think Roy will continue to be his eyes and ears.

Spindae: I think it will make Roy work out a bit and become a hero on his own. He will realize the Arrow won't train him or take him under his wing, so if he wants to be a hero he has to become one Hero on his own.

Robin: I think Roy will be pissed off, but the control isn't in his hands. There's no way Oliver's gonna let him do dangerous things while he's dating Thea. He should just chill before he loses an arm...

Hank: Yeah if I were Roy, I'd be uber-pissed! What the hell, you "penetrated" me bro? Haha that sounded all kinds of wrong. I agree with Kate that their partnership will continue, though Roy will be less of a vigilante fanboy from this point forward. That whole storyline with Sin last night felt forced to me, unnecessary, other than to give Roy/Thea something to do. I like Roy, and the writers have done a good job of fleshing out his story. I hope they don't push him away from the Arrow but at the same time, that Arrow lair is getting kind of crowded isn't it?

Carissa: Hank, your answer says all the right things. However, I want to see Roy get into some trouble as payback for Oliver turning a blind eye to the kid begging to be included. He misread the signs and he's going to have to play some sort of rescuer at some point. As he should.

Things on the island really took some dramatic turns, where do you think that story heads next with all that was revealed?

Kate: Slade will survive, obviously. Now that they've all been captured on the vessel, I bet they'll be torture. Shado will die, unfortunately - Slade will become enraged. Sara will be disappear, Oliver will think she has died. Oliver and Slade showdown. How's that for a prediction?

Spindae: Some dramatic love triangle or maybe even quadrangle moments which will probably cost Shado her life and dig a deep rift between Oliver and Slade. I hope we get a lot boat scenes, I love how creepy the boat is.

Robin: I find it hard to invest in the island romances; they don't really propel the story along yet. As for the serum - it turns people into super soldiers, but it also seems to turn them into jerks. Oliver said all the folks injected with the serum are dead. My theory is that he would have never had the heart to kill Slade (no matter how jerky/Deathstrokey he became).

Hank: It does seem like the island storyline is moving toward a Shado death and Deathstroke/Oliver duel. However, last season, it also seemed Malcolm Merlyn was going to die and Tommy would take his place as the Dark Archer. In retrospect, I'm so glad they didn't do that. One of the things I love about this show, is they always try to go for the unpredictable. I'm not really sure where the island stuff is going, but it does tie in better to the present storyline than last season did. I have a feeling whatever takes place on the island, is totally going to blow our minds!

Carissa: Again, I agree with Hank that the island scenes really tie in with the present so much better than they did in Arrow Season 1. I especially liked Shado discovering that Oliver had taken his girlfriend's sister on the Gambit with him. She got a different picture of him that opened her eyes to what Slade might offer her. But I get the idea that Slade's going to disappear for (ever?) from the island. I've finally found the flashbacks interesting - that's a feat in itself!

Carissa Pavlica is the managing editor and staff writer for TV Fanatic. Follow her on Twitter and on Google+.

Tags: ,
Fearless diva

Yay, another roundtable! :) Okay, so if I remember correctly, Stephen did say that there would be glimpses of what Oliver feels for Felicity. The jealousy wasn't overdone and it was clear based on all his background check on Barry that it was something more than just Oliver planning ahead. The Barry and Felicity pairing was set in stone to continue paving the way for an eventual Olicity. In my opinion, with seeing Felicity with someone "normal", Oliver is facing the stark reality that any point she can walk away and leave him. LOL it might just be my Olicity goggles but didn't it seem like when Felicity was tending to his wounds, Oliver was more of a baby? As for Grant Gustin as Barry, when I heard the casting a while back... I wasn't thrilled by any means. But after seeing how well he connected with the rest of the cast, I am never questioning the show's producers when it comes to casting choices. I have this theory that Sebastian Blood is just a puppet, even though he looks like he is this season's big bad. I think it's going to be revealed that Slade is behind it all?

Fearless diva

Yay, another roundtable! :) Okay, so if I remember correctly, Stephen did say that there would be glimpses of what Oliver feels for Felicity. The jealousy wasn't overdone and it was clear based on all his background check on Barry that it was something more than just Oliver planning ahead. The Barry and Felicity pairing was set in stone to continue paving the way for an eventual Olicity. In my opinion, with seeing Felicity with someone "normal", Oliver is facing the stark reality that any point she can walk away and leave him. LOL it might just be my Olicity goggles but didn't it seem like when Felicity was tending to his wounds, Oliver was more of a baby? As for Grant Gustin as Barry, when I heard the casting a while back... I wasn't thrilled by any means. But after seeing how well he connected with the rest of the cast, I am never questioning the show's producers when it comes to casting choices. I have this theory that Sebastian Blood is just a puppet, even though he looks like he is this season's big bad. I think it's going to be revealed that Slade is behind it all?

Avatar

Thats just pathetic for your ship if Oliver need someone to realise his so called feeling for Felicity. FYI, its just shows posessiveness and jealous ness, he is treating Felicity like a toy, an object that belongs to him. That he doesn't care for until someone wants it. Meanwhile he would rather sleep with the whole town. Felicity does deserve better than Oliver, she is better off with Barry or anyone else really,

Fearless diva
@ crest

You're obviously not a fan of the show then!

Priestess of apollo

The comic book fans were excited about Barry/ The Flash, but I am not a comic book fan, so I know nothing about him. But Barry, as a character, was wayyy too young to be a romantic interest for Felicity, and it looked kind of silly. If they wanted “The Flash” to be that young, fine, if that’s the deal for the character. But Felicity did not look all broken up when he left. Naturally, she was hysterical when she saw Oliver, and Barry came to mind as a solution to save Oliver and keep his secret. I think that it was great that she found a kindred spirit, was able to feel pretty and wanted, (all girls do, and she does not get that validation from anyone), even if he was too young. If they wanted Oliver to realize that he had stronger feelings for Felicity, than Barry should have looked over the age of 20. Oliver was already upset and confused about his feelings for her, as he killed again to save her last week, so they did not need Barry to serve that purpose. He just looked like a bully when he accused Barry of lying, because he looks like a kid, which was ridiculous. In reality, he should have been speaking to another man, not a kid, who he did not trust, who as a bonus was making him jealous. Barry was an innocent kid, with a horribly tragic story, and Felicity was angry, that Oliver was being just that, a bully. However, this season has seen a new, more confident Felicity who is feeling more comfortable w/her femininity, as seen by her sassy outfits, and that she is no longer crushing on Oliver. She has no problem asking to speak w/him in front of his family, asking Laurel to leave for a moment, and even wiping someone's blood off of his face in front of Isabel. I love how they are becoming best friends, and more feelings are there, as they do have more intimate manner of speaking. It is my favorite part of their relationship, and I love when they tell people “she is my friend”, “please save my friend”, because I see two little kids running around and holding hands. Even Sara said that Oliver did not have good luck with friends in the past. (the island, not last season). It’s well written, as all of his other relationships are messy like w/Laurel, or just the good old one night stand w/women he doesn't care about, or as Felicity said, are not good enough for him. Bu their inexperience in this emotional space, has put them on even ground, even if they have arrived there from two very different places. They can’t be together yet, as he is a mess, and she does not feel confident enough as a woman, to be w/him either. So, when he asked about a dance, I was praying that it was not w/him, as it would have been awkward, and ruined something that is developing at just the right pace.

Hanko9
@ Priestess of Apollo

I'll be honest, Grant Gustin (despite being 23 in real life) looks about 18. When I first learned he had been cast as Barry Allen, I thought he was going to have a tough time pulling off the whole "forensic scientist" thing. Making him an assistant was a great move by the writers, they realize he's not foolin' anyone with that baby face haha. That said, I had much less of an issue with the Felicity/Barry pairing. They're much closer in age than Felicity and Oliver are, besides brains are a turn on no? Why would Felicity not find this young guy attractive? Sure, it all happened a little too quickly, but I do think he's a better match for her than Oliver is... (runs for cover, the Olicity shippers are definitely going to want my head for that comment LOL)

Joyeful
@ Priestess of Apollo

I agree with the evolution of Oliver and Felicity's friendship - some good points raised. Although she totally is still crushing on Oliver. However, this may be a point of interest for the first part of your discussion - the actress who plays Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is actually younger than the guy playing Barry Allen (Grant Gustin). Emily is 22, Grant is 23. The guy just looks really young - and they played with that during the whole episode. Felicity - the character - is only 25. And they didn't really specify how old Barry's supposed to be (but if you consider that he's working as an assistant in a police forensic lab, it's safe to assume that he's either in or completing college, and likely already in his 20s.)

Avatar
@ Priestess of Apollo

I completely agree with you about Barry, he did look way too young for her, it freaked me out a bit. It didn't make sense in terms of making Oliver jealous, that should be for later on and if Felicity is starting to be interested in another MAN, not a kid. He looked more like Thea's friend form high school

Priestess of apollo
@ Starbreeze

@Robin Harry,that is so interesting! I did not know that! But you have an excellent point, about playing with age w/the Barry character, but it was super fun to watch right? @ Starbreeze, seriously freaked me out a bit as well. Plus how old is Thea any way? @crest, it was just my POV, and I am not sure what you meant about "pathetic" but, I just like to write about relationships that I love, whatever type they are, for my fave TV shows. I wanted to clarify that I did not say Oliver needed someone else to make him feel jealous. I stated that if the writers wanted Oliver to feel jealous, than they should have made the Barry character look like a man, not a kid. However, they already showed how confused Oliver was about his feelings in 2.7. And you know, sometimes jealousy, and its happened to me, my friends, anyone really, can be a good thing. If your BFF is a guy, and suddenly you're jealous of his latest squeeze, it can shock you, as you had no idea that you had those feelings. Some of my friends ended up marrying that best friend.Yet, the ugly green monster, can also be a very, very bad thing. Great Round Table!

Fortyseven

1. LMAO
3. Yes

Smoak and arrow

Have been looking forward to seeing this round table since the episode aired as always. :) 1. This is my first time seeing this actor in anything and he seems like a good one but, like Hank, I just... eh. I wasn't bowled over by the character. He does come off way too young and yes, very "Smallville"-esque to me and I had the same reaction to that show and was turned off pretty fast. I don't know that I'd feel compelled to watch Flash like I was with Arrow, but I'm making myself give it a chance before deciding. 2. I'm hoping it'll definitely help the Oliver/Felicity relationship. I'm not expecting hug leaps and bounds or declarations of anything between Olicity but getting an insight on how Oliver feels (or is beginning to feel) about Felicity would be nice. Heck, even Felicity hasn't really "voiced" anything concrete yet. Robin brought up Oliver understanding Felicity's choice and I tend to think the same. I think he'll be angry that she spilled his secret at first until someone (Hello! Diggle!) points out that HIS choice was to call 911 and out Oliver to the entire freaking world while Felicity came up with protecting his identity and only trusting one person. Because if Oliver is still irked after that's pointed out... I'm gonna wanna smack that boy. LOL. 3. The serum is totally connected to Slade. Totally. Is he behind what's going on in the present? Hm. I don't know about that. But I do think it could lure him out and into the present story. That would work for me. 4. The hero worship shine mine be off that apple in light of the arrow to the knee incident. LOL. But I think in the end Roy and Arrow will come to an understanding. Maybe Roy will learn in this 2 parter that he's not as tough as he thinks he is and that working with people at your back who are more experienced about things are sometimes right when they tell you to sit, stay and wait before doing something rash and stupid. 5. I got the feeling, too, that Shado would die. Is it a fake death and she could return in present day? Could be. But I admit I'm getting a little worn on the Ha! You thought s/he was dead but SURPRISE! They managed to survive and now they're back! thing. It lessens the impact of characters' deaths for me so that, eventually, when they do happen, I'll be like... Shrug. When are they popping out of the grave this time? moving on..... I definitely think there will be ugliness between Oliver & Slade on the island, which is sad. I liked their bromance. I don't think we'll see Sara die again til later in the season.

Avatar

Wow, what an episode. I am glad we got to see Lance and that Felicity is still being used as his connection to the Arrow. I really like the scenes between these two, and hope we see some more development there. While I would like to eventually see Lance brought into the Arrow Cave, I think I prefer they stretch out his Felicity connection as long as possible. I would really like to see where this goes — and let me stress, in the NON ROMANTIC sense. LOL Barry was young looking, but I liked the contrast with Oliver. Actually, it looked as though they did something different with Oliver for this episode — perhaps with makeup? Oliver looked a little more haggard and aged, they even mentioned that on the After Arrow show! I wonder if was done to highlight Barry's youth. I also wanted to address something Carissa stated regarding how Barry's presence will effect Felicity and Oliver. I am going to disagree, primarily because I don't think Oliver is fully aware of his feelings FOR her. He can't really back off something that he has yet to take a step in the direction towards … . In fact I think Barry will be used to make Oliver more aware. The "tell" for me was Oliver confronting Barry about his lie in front of Felicity. As Barry stated that Felicity would have to find another "+1" Oliver kind of freezes and then slowly turns and tries to justify his actions to Felicity — it was a bit of a meager attempt because I think that is when he realized he went too far. At the party he even acknowledges that when he apologizes. I don't think Oliver really recognizes his actions as jealousy and in the end he is acting as a true friend by inviting Barry. As for Felicity quickly altering her affections, has she really? I mean, I think she likes and admires Oliver and there were signs of her crushing on him, but she herself has never shown any signs of jealousy since joining the team and he has been out quite a few times with a variety of women—with her encouragement! The only time she has ever said ANYTHING in regards to one of his hook ups was when it was Isabelle — someone she doesn't really respect. I think her words to Oliver at the end of 06 were more like "have a little respect for yourself Oliver, there are better options out there". She respects Oliver more than Oliver respects Oliver. Also, he clearly stated he was off the market as far as any real relationship goes so I'm glad she's not idly pining away. Good for her! I think their affections are growing in both friendship and … who knows, but I will def enjoy the ride.

Avatar
@ Rose Red

Wow, I love this comment. Thanks. You are so spot on.

Avatar

Wow, what an episode. I am glad we got to see Lance and that Felicity is still being used as his connection to the Arrow. I really like the scenes between these two, and hope we see some more development there. While I would like to eventually see Lance brought into the Arrow Cave, I think I prefer they stretch out his Felicity connection as long as possible. I would really like to see where this goes — and let me stress, in the NON ROMANTIC sense. LOL Barry was young looking, but I liked the contrast with Oliver. Actually, it looked as though they did something different with Oliver for this episode — perhaps with makeup? Oliver looked a little more haggard and aged, they even mentioned that on the After Arrow show! I wonder if was done to highlight Barry's youth. I also wanted to address something Carissa stated regarding how Barry's presence will effect Felicity and Oliver. I am going to disagree, primarily because I don't think Oliver is fully aware of his feelings FOR her. He can't really back off something that he has yet to take a step in the direction towards … . In fact I think Barry will be used to make Oliver more aware. The "tell" for me was Oliver confronting Barry about his lie in front of Felicity. As Barry stated that Felicity would have to find another "+1" Oliver kind of freezes and then slowly turns and tries to justify his actions to Felicity — it was a bit of a meager attempt because I think that is when he realized he went too far. At the party he even acknowledges that when he apologizes. I don't think Oliver really recognizes his actions as jealousy and in the end he is acting as a true friend by inviting Barry. As for Felicity quickly altering her affections, has she really? I mean, I think she likes and admires Oliver and there were signs of her crushing on him, but she herself has never shown any signs of jealousy since joining the team and he has been out quite a few times with a variety of women—with her encouragement! The only time she has ever said ANYTHING in regards to one of his hook ups was when it was Isabelle — someone she doesn't really respect. I think her words to Oliver at the end of 06 were more like "have a little respect for yourself Oliver, there are better options out there". She respects Oliver more than Oliver respects Oliver. Also, he clearly stated he was off the market as far as any real relationship goes so I'm glad she's not idly pining away. Good for her! I think their affections are growing in both friendship and … who knows, but I will def enjoy the ride.

Avatar
@ Rose Red

your analysis is amazing