Welcome to the Arrow Season 3 Episode 20 round table where THAT HAPPENED and we talk about it. The participants also discuss developments with Sarab/Maseo, what's coming for Thea after the Lazarus Pit cure and for the rest of Arrow Season 3.
Join TV Fanatics Lindsay MacDonald, Hank Otero, Allison Nichols, Carla Day and Carissa Pavlica for all the chatter and join in the conversation by dropping your thoughts in the comments!
So THAT happened. Talk about it.
Lindsay: As a big fan of Olicity, I can't complain about an extended love scene that had 'I love you's' flying everywhere with mood lighting and lots of shirtlessness. It's kind of the dream. But as far as making sense within the narrative? Meh, it felt a little rushed. They kind of trashed Ray and Felicity in 2.5 seconds to make that love scene possible, which I wasn't cool with.
Hank: It was a total fan service moment. What was the point of Raylicity? I'll admit it was a sweet moment, sure, but it can't last so it's all downhill from here for the couple. I think the writers need to stay off Twitter, they're almost too in tune with what the fanbase wants.
Allison: I agreed that it felt very rushed, but almost had to be given what was going on in the story. It was potentially her last time ever seeing Oliver again. Felicity was saying goodbye to Oliver (and then drugging him). I enjoyed it, but it made me sad since it was farewell sex. Given the spinoff situation, Raylicity was never going to last. I liked that Ray isn't an idiot and he picked up on Felicity's feelings for Oliver. I do like Raylicity, but somehow they work better in Central City.
Carla: I've never been a fan of Oliver and Felicity as a couple. I preferred Ray and Felicity, because they had an ease and connection which felt authentic, natural and loving. That said, I saw a connection and an honesty between Felicity and Oliver for the first time in "that" scene. I'm still not sold on Oliver and Felicity working long term, but that was a hot hook-up even it it doesn't turn into more in the future.
Carissa: I still don't buy them as a romantic couple. I know I'm alone in that, and they can try to sell me. Tossing the most ridiculous and random flashback right in the middle of sexy time didn't help the sale. If they were always intended to be a couple, it's cool. If it's fan servicing, it's really not. Ultimately, it almost felt as if Felicity used sex as an opportunity to catch Oliver off guard so she could save him, which was...kind of icky for their first time. Flame on.
What's next for Team Arrow?
Lindsay: I'd assume Team Arrow will operate in much the same way they did when they thought Oliver was dead, but now they've got no Roy, maybe Thea, and Captain Lance gunning for anyone in a mask. It's going to be rough.
Hank: No idea, this season has felt like they're making it up as they go along. I agree with Lindsay, it will probably be like when Oliver was "dead."
Allison: Laurel is really going to need some more training now that Roy is gone. She can't carry the team. Nyssa might have to jump in, but her views don't exactly match up with Team Arrow's. Wait, are we going to need a new name now that there is no more arrow? Team Diggle? Team Vigilante People?
Carla: It's going to be a whole new world for them. It will likely be different than when Oliver was "dead" because they know he's alive and out there. They will be pulled into what's happening with Oliver with the focus more on Al Sah-him and the League of Assassins than on the happenings in Starling City.
Carissa: I imagine they'll try to figure out a way to get Oliver to rethink his decision while carrying on with the good fight. I disagree with Allison about Laurel and training. I think that ship has sailed while we weren't looking. Should be interesting. For a while everyone thought there were too many masks, and now there are two; Black Canary and ATOM. Not enough! Go figure.
What did you think of what was revealed about Maseo/Sarab?
Lindsay: It was made pretty clear all year that Akio would not make it out of flashback land, so I wasn't exactly floored. I was, however, shocked that Ra's allowed Maseo to live after his betrayal. He's got a weird way of measuring loyalty, that's for sure.
Hank: I also knew the kid was toast. The flashbacks make such little sense this season, I tend to zone out (just being honest folks). By the way, if there's one episode where the flashbacks were completely distracting and unnecessary it was this one.
Allison: I really miss the island. I'm honestly just waiting for Oliver to get out of Hong Kong because I just want to know how he ends up back on that island. Now that we know how Maseo's son dies, we are just going to have to wait around for it to happen and watch the painful scene that has already been described to us. I agree with Hank - this episode the flashbacks were really distracting and took away from the momentum of the episode.
Carla: The flashbacks have been a major disappointment this season and were poorly used in "The Fallen," and took away from an otherwise amazing hour. The main reveal wasn't even in the flashback, but that Maseo believes his son is dead. Is he really dead? Now, that could be a fun twist if he's alive and Maseo's been manipulated this entire time.
Carissa: I was most surprised by how easily he was forgiven by Ra's al Ghul because he didn't fully let go of his "Maseo" side. Ra's is a strange man. One minute he has no compassion and then an overabundance. Why didn't Sarab just let Malcolm go down for Team Arrow? Malcolm could be dead now. Dammit!
The Lazarus Pit works incredibly fast. What do you think Thea's price will be?
Lindsay: I hope it's something intense and long-lasting. If we only see her struggle with this thing for the final few episodes of the season, that's a missed opportunity. She came back from being almost-dead, and that should be a huge deal. Not to mention, it could give her a meaty side story next year.
Hank: Hopefully a side effect will be to make Thea mental and unstable. Otherwise, what was the point of the whole thing? That jump out of the pit was a tad silly wasn't it? I had been waiting for the Lazarus Pit to come into play, but it was another wasted opportunity... Thea seriously?
Allison: Hank, you didn't like Thea's super dramatic, demon-like jump from the pit? Given how adamant Malcolm was about not subjecting Thea to the Lazarus pit, there have to be side effects. I found her "confusion," as Ra's put it, really interesting. Her timeline was all jumbled up. I wonder if we will ever learn anything about where she thought she was.
Carla: Hmm.... I really have no legitimate guess. Whatever Thea's price is, I hope it's something unexpected and propels her character in an entirely new direction. Will she become part of Team Arrow? Will she become a villain? Will she team up with Malcolm in his misguided ways? Something else entirely unexpected? Not sure, but I'm along for the ride.
Carissa: The memory issues were very strange. Thea was never a family with mommy Moira and daddy Malcolm, so it did more than mess with memories. I hope she's been altered in some way that will be examined. For every mystical change there should be a consequence. Thea's mind being muddled is a small price, I'd say.
The finale doesn't seem as up in the air as it did mid-season. What are your expectations of the final 3?
Lindsay: I'm struggling to see how they'll bring the Alpha/Omega bio weapon into the present, since it seems so firmly rooted in 5-years-ago China. As for the rest, I hope we get some closer on Lance's vendetta, and Oliver gets to return to Starling. Maybe that can be the League's new HQ?
Hank: Honestly, I'm ready for this uneven and bizarre season to be over. The only thing I'd really love to see from the final 3 is the death of Merlyn. How ridiculous is his very presence at this point? Again, I love Barrowman but his character was ruined and he's overstayed his welcome by a season.
Allison: Sara to be magically alive and well. I will never be over her death. I'm excited to see things shaken up for next season. Oliver can't be the Arrow again, and so I am curious to see how the writers handle that. I would love to see the League relocate to Starling, as Lindsay mentioned. It could be an interesting change of pace. Also, I just want another Flash crossover with Barry and Cisco being dorks around super serious League members.
Carla: Given the mess this season has been, I'll go with the crazy time-travel theory that at the end of the finale we'll find ourselves looking at a new timeline. Bonus: Sara's still alive and ... since Colton Haynes is gone, Roy's dead?
Carissa: SPOILER ALERT!!! Arrow Season 3 Episode 23 is called "My Name is Oliver Queen." Are we going to finally come to the end of the flashbacks, two seasons early? Doubtful. So is the Al Sah-him bit a ruse? I hope not, because Arrow needs this shake up. I'd like Oliver to remain League head, as himself, with someone else becoming the Arrow. No idea who. Diggle doesn't have the skills. Just shake 'er up is all I ask.
Carissa Pavlica is the managing editor and a staff writer for TV Fanatic. Follow her on Twitter.