Grimm Round Table: Enough Is Enough

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Chaos reigned in "Eve of Destruction" as Black Claw made bold moves, with very foreboding violence that forever changed the status quo of the Wesen world.

Plus, Juliette was back from the dead, and Nick was left with almost more questions than when he started. And then there was the matter of that kiss...!

Join Round Table panelists Doug Wolfe, Allison Nichols, Robin Harry, and Kathleen Wiedel as they discuss Grimm Season 5 Episode 7 and share their thoughts on Black Claw's grievances, the curious fate of Juliette Silverton, a possible romance between Nick and Adalind, and more!

Be sure to join in the conversation in the comments section below!

Grimm Round Table 1-27-15

Black Claw, the Wesen uprising, claims to have numerous legitimate grievances spurring their actions (centuries of oppression and humiliation, etc.). Thoughts?

Doug: They appear to be resigned to pay with their lives to support “the cause” (whatever that is). The way that hit man attacked and killed Xavier in jail – that was a pure suicide mission. The Wesen Council seemed to have a stranglehold on the Wesen community (which we saw from earlier episodes as far back as Grimm Season 1. But I never thought they were overly oppressive, just more organized. So what’s the clarion call here? “FREEDOM!!”

Allison: I think Black Claw is just done with being in the shadows. They've decided that enough is enough, and if you don't support their cause, then you're going to die. The Wesen Council opposed their caused, and the Council helps ensure that Wesen stay in the shadows. For that, they had to die.

Robin: My thoughts are that Black Claw is tired of Wesen having to hide from regular humans, and they'd like to live as freely as regular people do. Frankly, that's a legitimate thing to want.

It's not actually fair for Wesen to hide themselves, to live in fear of upsetting and scaring the people who dominate society, to pretend to be "normal" when they're actually different. If that's their beef, then it's totally legitimate. That said, Black Claw's methods are reprehensible, and what they want doesn't justify cold-blooded murder.

Kathleen: While I have no doubt that there are some among them who actually believe in that "centuries of oppression" spiel that Lucien was giving, I'm equally sure that a large number of them are in it for the violence, chaos, and destruction that are even now being unleashed. The whole "join or die" mantra also rather kills any sense of legitimacy they may have had, in my opinion.

What will the fallout be from the massacre of the Wesen Council by Black Claw?

Doug: Now that they no longer have a governing body, my guess is “every Wesen for himself.” I think we can expect nightmare scenarios as suddenly rudderless Wesen can’t decide whether to hide or join the Black Claw. My question is: how organized is Meisner’s group? How large are they? Will they put out a call to the suddenly leaderless and unaligned Wesen to join him?

Allison: I'm really interested in how this affects the every day Wesen. I mean the Wesen Council doesn't really affect the day to day things, so either the majority of Wesen will just go about their daily lives until some crisis arises, or there will immediately be a panic and scramble for power.

Robin: Well, since the Wesen Council was the body that enforced the rules (e.g. not woging in public, not using Wesen powers to cause trouble), I assume that all hell will break loose.

Kathleen: I'm wondering if Rosalee and Monroe might not take it upon themselves to create a sort of ad hoc interim Council right there in Portland, if for no other reason than to keep things from descending into total anarchy. Alexander's survival and escape from Black Claw may aid them in this.

What do you think of Eve, the re-forged Hexenbiest formerly known as Juliette?

Doug: She seems almost like an automaton right now doesn’t she? Devoid of passion and personality, she appears to be a construct that is no longer human or strictly speaking, Wesen. More of a Meisner weapon than anything else. That’s fine with me – I prefer that to anything even resembling the old Juliette.

Allison: I find her super intriguing. I want to know more about her, and how she's doing, mentally. I agree with Doug's assessment of her – she's devoid of personality and passion. I need to see her interact with all of Team Grimm.

Robin: Meh, I wasn't all that intrigued. I really only want to see her in battle, and I am interested in how they broke her. Other than that, I'm not sold.

Kathleen: I'm curious to know how many viewers think that Eve has more personality as an automaton-like weapon than as Juliette Silverton. Honestly, I'm not one of them, just curious. We really haven't seen much, yet, but it's enought to be more than a little disturbing.

What about Martin Meisner, a once-minor character who has grown into a major player?

Doug: He’s still somewhat of a question mark, too. I like that the writers are taking their time with him. It gives us much more to speculate on. I want to know his game plan, and how he plans to fight the Black Claw.

Allison: We still don't know much about him other than he dreams of Adalind in his spare time. Now that the Wesen Council is gone, maybe we will spend more time with Meisner and learn more about his game plan.

Robin: Give me all the Meisner. He's fantastic and intriguing. The way he moves is so subtle at times, but everything is purposeful with him, and I love that. He captivates me on screen, and I just want to know more about his organization and what he's about.

Kathleen: Like Robin, I find Meisner fascinating. He was first mentioned by name back in Grimm Season 2 Episode 16, "Nameless," when Renard's spy Sebastien expressed concern about their alliance with convenience with Meisner.

Since then, Meisner's killed two Royals (Eric and the King), rescued Adalind from Europe (and helped deliver her baby), and turned up as an important member of Hadrian's Wall. Plus, the fight choreographers on this show are well aware of how awesome Damien Puckler is. More Meisner, please!

What are your thoughts on Nick and Adalind's conversation about her giving him a chance at a normal life when she stopped him being a Grimm? Are you open to a Nick/Adalind romance?

Doug: I dislike it, only because there’s a baby now involved. Having that element added to a series equation means the writers have to figure out how and where the baby fits into everything. I’d rather see Nick go solo, quite frankly, just like Trubel. He’s a badass Grimm who has yet to show us the full extent of his power. My guess is that some of those unexplored new powers have yet to be exploited. Wish the writers would pay more attention to that than the Adalind romance.

Allison: Nope. Make it stop. I am enjoying their weird dynamic, but I'm not ready for a romance. The kiss came out of nowhere, and it was awkward. Adalind doesn't really have anything to do, and I'd rather see her get her powers back or go back to work or something other than sit at home.

Robin: I don't have a problem with the concept of Nick and Adalind together. I do have a problem with how fast they're moving it along. That whole storyline is moving way too quickly to be comfortable, and I'd prefer if they hadn't sped along to the kiss quite this soon. Also, I agree with Allison; they're wasting Adalind's character. She was an interesting villain when she was one, and her being relegated to Nick's baby mama is a total waste right now. She's too smart and too savvy for that.

Kathleen: Everything is just being rushed! I can get that the writers want to go in that direction, but they seem to forget that Grimm is not running in real time anymore! Think about it: as far as Nick (should be) concerned, Adalind "made him stop being a Grimm," what, not even a year ago?

They're seriously asking me to get on board with a potential fast-forward romance between Nick and Adalind when there are far more important (and, in my opinion, far more interesting) things happening in the world at large.

*Bonus Question! Share a favorite scene or quote.

Doug: I liked watching the fierce Rosalee lunge at Xavier in the car. She’s no shrinking violet. I’ve always liked her but this new fierceness is pretty cool.

Allison: I loved that Trubel confronted Meisner about Juliette. He lied to her which made her (unknowingly) lie to Nick. Trubel thinks of Nick as family, and she hates that Nick is in pain and shock like this. It showcased how much Trubel cares for Nick. I love, love, love their relationship so much.

Robin: I'm struggling to pick a favourite scene, because I found this episode moved way too slowly, there was too much exposition, and the dialogue was painful at times. If I had to pick, I'm gonna go with Alexander escaping the Wesen Council massacre. That made for an interesting potential storyline, and I wonder if he'll eventually make it to Portland to work with Team Grimm.

Kathleen: I enjoyed the episode more than Robin, I think, aside from the cringe-worthy kiss between Nick and Adalind. And I totally agree with Doug regarding Rosalee; she's just so amazing, isn't she? But since no one brought it up, I'll share this entertaining little remark, courtesy of Captain Renard:

Renard: So, we have a normal middle-class mother and father who are backing their daughter's involvement in a radical, violent Wesen organization.
Nick: Actually, they said they were *proud* of her.
Renard: Well, at least they're being supportive.

Grimm Season 5 Episode 8, "A Reptile Dysfunction," is scheduled to air on Friday, February 5 at 9/8c on NBC. Be sure to tune in and check it out!

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Grimm Season 5 Episode 7 Quotes

Xavier: It's too late! They're crazy! They can't be stopped!
Hank: From what?
Xavier: From taking over! All Wesen must join! Anybody who doesn't agree with them will be killed. You don't understand, this is happening now! It's a revolution!

So... whoever took her body brought her back to life?!

Wu