Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Round Table: Goth Princess

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On Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 3 Episode 22, we saw the rise and fall of Lincoln, as he sacrificed himself for Daisy and the world, taking Hive with him to complete Daisy's prophetic vision.

Join TV Fanatics, Jim Garner, Kathleen Wiedel, Caralynn Lippo, Meg Bonney, and Jay Ruymann, as they discuss Daisy's horrible goth wardrobe choice, who the real fallen agent was, and much more.

Agents of SHIELD Round Table S3 - depreciated -

Lincoln is the "Fallen Agent." React!

Jim: Actually I would say Lincoln is the Hero'ed Agent if anything and Daisy is the Fallen Agent. Look no further than Coulson and Mack chasing her through the streets for proof of that. I'm not really sad that Lincoln died, I just really hope Hive went with him.

Kathleen: Lincoln, unfortunately, has not been one of the stronger points of this season, though going out on a heroic sacrifice did go a ways to redeeming the character. He was the one I was "hoping" to be the Fallen Agent, rather than anyone else. Of course, this obviously didn't make things any easier for Daisy…

Caralynn: Called it! OK, not to sound like a jerk or anything, but Kathleen is completely right – the sacrificial death was the way to go for him, the best possible way for him to bow out of a character that just wasn't quite meshing with everyone else. Luke Mitchell and Chloe Bennet are both phenomenal actors (so may people on this show are incredibly underrated talents, particularly FitzSimmons both), and they nailed those goodbye scenes.

Meg: I was a little more bummed to see Lincoln go than I thought I would be but I totally agree with Jim. I think the real Fallen Agent is Daisy. Lincoln was never actually an agent.

Jay: I can't say I'm say that it was him. He never fit into the group for me and I love the original team so much and believe the story needs to get abck to focusing on them, so I'm really happy it wasn't May, like I'd suspected.

Chloe Bennet stood out fabulously in this episode between Daisy being so guilt-stricken to her reaction when Lincoln died. What was your favorite Daisy scene?

Jim: Wow, there were so many, but I have to go with her initial plea to Hive to take her back, followed by the superb ass-beating she gave him. She really did react like an addict looking for a fix and then lashed out when she couldn't get it, which resulted in one helluva action fight scene.

Kathleen: I'm with Jim; that was an awesome action scene at the beginning of the episode. And the emotion there was just palpable!

Caralynn: It was a small moment but when Lincoln cut out on the comm system right after telling Daisy he loved her and Daisy begged Coulson to help her save Lincoln, my breath caught. It was such raw, visceral pain, panic, and distress. It was such a powerful performance.

Meg: She was amazing! I loved when she was begging the team to bring Lincoln back. She was so panicked and desperate to save him.

Jay: Chloe's acting was astounding. I would have to say the scene where she's begging Hive to take her back in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 3 Episode 21; the raw emotion in that scene was so desperate and then the fight scene afterward when Daisy's anger was unleashed. Wow. Just wow.

Favorite scene in general?

Jim: "I've always wanted to do this... help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi, your my only hope" - Coulson – I had to pause the show I was laughing so hard and Coulson using the hologram tech on Hive and then throwing out an awesome Star Wars reference.

Kathleen: Oh, my gosh, that Coulson line was just so funny! While Coulson's not exactly a *consistent* source of comedy, sometimes he just has me in stitches.

Caralynn: Jim, I also loved that scene for the Star Wars reference but I couldn't get over that terrible CGI job on Hive's "true face" – he looked like Davy Jones from Pirates of the Caribbean and that totally killed the scene for me. I loved Lincoln's/Hive's conversation right before the quinjet blew up. Great dialogue, great performances, great cinematography. Runner-up: the fight scene where Mack got to use his shotgun axe. SHOTGUN AXE!!

Meg: Lincoln and Hive just floating in space, talking about life. It was a quiet moment. The hero and the villain accepting their fates.

Jay: The opening scene. Daisy and Coulson sitting on Maveth in her dream, which she'd never been to, and talking about how the team left her and Earth had turned into Maveth. It was creepy and brilliant.

I knew someone was gonna go. I just didn't know everyone would.

Daisy

Brett Dalton seems to be officially off the show. What are your thoughts on his departure?

Jim: The flashbacks they showed when Hive's brain was scrambled did such a great job of showing how far Grant Ward come (and changed) since season 1, it was a nice nod the Dalton's amazing work. While I will miss Dalton, I won't really miss the lodestone that Ward had become.

Kathleen: Jim summarized my feelings pretty well. Dalton's performance over the past three seasons has been spectacular, especially given all the flack he took in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 1 for the bland, vanilla portrayal of Ward as a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent. That metamorphosed into Ward the damaged and conflicted Hydra agent, before finally becoming Hive the Inhuman with his blue-and-orange morality. Well done.

Caralynn: They never did what I expected with Ward; which is to say, they forewent the redemption arc and made him a villain. By virtue of that, Ward outstayed his welcome. I do think there would have been ways to keep Ward "in the grey" a bit longer and extend his character's longevity, but once they decided evil was the way, he had to go.

I loved Brett and a very (very) small part of me is hoping that Hive is floating down to earth with amnesia because I'm a ridiculous TV watcher. I know it's illogical and soap opera-y and won't happen. I don't care. The final Lincoln/Hive scene was incredible though. Great work from both Luke and Brett.

Meg: I am still in denial! Can we get him back as that creepy robot that Radcliffe just built? I can't imagine the show without him in some form.

Jay: I'm so upset about it. I loved Ward, and then loved to hate Ward, and Brett Dalton is an incredible actor; it's a shame the writers wrote themselves into a corner and had to get rid of him. I hope they realize the mistake they've made.

Did anything in the finale catch you by surprise?

Jim: The "jump" 6 months where Daisy has left SHIELD. That totally caught me off guard. I think that it makes her the "fallen agent", but then again maybe I'm in the minority there.

Kathleen: That jump really did surprise me, too, Jim. I was totally expecting them to end on the defeat of Hive and the immediate aftermath. This ending, of course, lends itself to flashbacks to how they got there once the series returns next season.

Caralynn: That jump was so abrupt! It almost felt like an editing error. I was also surprised by that time jump. It was also strange that there were two scenes in the time jump – it felt like a longer coda than is typical with a season-ending time jump. I'm no expert, but I feel like you get one really powerful scene post time jump to end the season on, not two?

Meg: Agreed, the jump and the fact that Daisy has gone goth for some reason.

Jay: The scene where Hellfire set off the gas in S.H.I.E.L.D.'s base, almost turning Fitz into one of Radcliffe's Inhumans. I did not see that coming, or see them invading the base.

React to Fitzsimmons and/or Yoyo/Mack.

Jim: So cute! I really hope they can continue to work in some romance to the show. It's nice to see them growing.

Kathleen: I'm very glad that none of them were the Fallen Agent. The FitzSimmons pairing has been a long time in coming, and it's quite a pleasure to see things coming together for them. And Yo-Yo and Mack is also delightful, in part because it showcases Mack's own character development – remember how downright hostile towards Inhumans he used to be?

Caralynn: Yoyo is my new favorite. I adore her sarcastic, sassy, kickass self and I hope she sticks around forever. I love her banter and chemistry with Mack. Yoyo/Mack is fast approaching Fitzsimmons in top current AoS couple, for me. I was thrilled to hear that, in the six months later time period, Fitz and Simmons were still together. That "surprise" he was planning for her that Radcliffe mentioned – is it a proposal?

Meg: I love them both. FitzSimmons is in such a cute place right now. I want more steam!

Jay: What more can I say? I love the banter between Yoyo and Mack, and I just love the relationship between Jemma and Fitz. Seeing how far they've grown since the beginning warms my heart.

Mack: Not all of us have super speed.
Elena: This isn't about super speed, this is about your turtle speed.

What was the season's biggest disappointment?

Jim: The overly hyped, yet WAY under-used "Secret Warriors." We got 1/2 an episode with them as a team and then they scattered to the wind.

Kathleen: I'm with Jim. The way the previous season ended, I was really hoping for some Secret Warrior action, and we hardly got anything with them as a distinct team.

Caralynn: Secret Warriors gave us Yoyo and Yoyo/Mack, so I can't hate on it too hard but yes – that "initiative" was way underutilized and Joey just vanished into the ether. What a waste!

Meg: Totally! The lack of the Secret Warriors story. I really wanted some more there.

Jay: I'm going to say it, and it's not going to go over well, but Ward dying. I always hoped for Grant Ward to find some sort of redemption or piece and come back into the fold, somehow, but the most disappointing part of his death was how he was killed. It was a pathetic way to get rid of the character.

Favorite scene of the season?

Jim: Hard to say, there were some really great scenes this season. I have to go with the one that was most powerful to me, of Mack pulling Daisy in as she tried to push him away and finally giving in and collapsing on him in tears... I'm not ashamed to say I shed a few tears, too.

Kathleen: Oh, there were a ton of great scenes. I'd like to highlight the spy's goodbye for Hunter and Bobbi in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 3 Episode 13. So many feels as the team raised their glasses to their friends!

Caralynn: The spy's goodbye was shocking emotional. But I'm going to continue to harp on Lincoln's death sequence. It just blew me away because obviously you guys know I really didn't care for Lincoln, so I was expecting to feel nothing at all during those scenes. I can't say I'm sorry he's gone, but the death was surprisingly emotional. Chloe and Luke carried it. I really loved the score used, too.

Meg: Fitz holding Jemma after getting back from Maveth was GOOOD, but I will say all of the FitzSimmons episodes.

Jay: I'm with Kathleen, the spy's goodbye is the scene that has stuck with me. The acting was just so good, even though hardly anything was said. I wonder if they'll be brought back, now that Marvel's Most Wanted is a bust.

Grade the finale and the season.

Jim: The finale was a solid 8 out of 10. The season was good, but not great. I'm going to give it a 6.5 out of 10. Hopefully next year we will see less of the "constantly one step behind" trope, it's just not fun after a bit.

Kathleen: I enjoyed it a bit more than Jim, so I'll give the season as a whole a 7 out of ten, with an 8 for the finale. Where the season looses points for me is the missed opportunity with the Secret Warriors, but it earned quite a bit for Brett Dalton's performance. He'll be missed.

Caralynn: I'd give the finale a 7 out of 10 and the season as a whole a 6 out of 10. The Hive arc was too brief to have the impact it should have, especially after that tremendous Jemma-centric flashback episode to Maveth, which was great set-up for Hive as a villain.

Meg: A. It was a solid A.

Jay: I'd say the finale was a 6.8 out of 10. It just didn't feel right, and Daisy's story just felt abruptly dropped into it. She should've escaped mind control an episode before, so we could've had more time to adjust to her being broken. As for the season, maybe a 6. I'm over the Inhuman story and both halves of the season felt so different. Hive couldn't been a season long villain, his story felt so rushed.

What did you make of the 6 months later time jump and what do you hope to see in Season 4?

Jim: I wasn't sure why Daisy left SHIELD, or who the Director was now since Coulson is in the street. I noticed he wasn't wearing a suit either, so lots of questions there. They teased AIDA with John Hannah, I hope we get more of John Hannah and Yoyo on the team. Finally, I'm curious how long till Daisy is back on the team.

Kathleen: As I mentioned earlier, I suspect we'll probably get flashbacks to detail how the team ended up how they did. Not a huge fan of flashbacks, personally, but the jump forward was pretty tantalizing and left us with so many questions.

Caralynn: It was jarring but I'm definitely intrigued about all of the changes. Why did Daisy "go dark"? Why is she dressed like she's going to Warped Tour in 2008? Who ousted Coulson as Director (or did he resign after the Hive debacle)? Mostly, I want to see if that surprise Fitz had for Simmons was an engagement.

Jay: Warped Tour 2008. I can't deal with you, Caralynn. It's so true though. It felt like the jump wasn't necessary, or the substantial scenes we got weren't necessary. It would've been enough to leave it with Daisy being a vigilante named Quake, but to leave questions about the Director and LMD's while the other characters were missing just feels unnecessary since we already have to wait until September for Season 4.

Jay Ruymann was a staff writer for TV Fanatic. He retired in January 2018.

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