Supernatural Round Table: A Satisfying Twist?

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An angel hunter with a surprising past and a connection with Castiel was at the center of Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10.

But was the reveal a good twist? And will Lily return?

TV Fanatic staff writers Christine Laskodi and Sean McKenna and The Winchester Family Business' Alice and Nightsky are ready to dive into this twisty episode.

So put your angel blades down and join in the latest Supernatural Round Table to talk about "Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets."

Supernatural Round Table 1-27-15

What was your favorite scene or quote?

Christine: I think my favorite moment was Castiel's apology to Lily. That speech came from such a deep place in Castiel, and it really showed how much he's grown and learned because of Sam and Dean. He's not a soldier for God anymore, and he has regrets.

I also got a nice chuckle out of the entire diner sequence, between everyone squeezing into that booth and Ishim's endless sugar with his coffee.

Nightsky: I agree that Castiel’s apology to Lily was a highlight of the episode. He took responsibility for his actions without the usual guilt-laden woe.

I also enjoyed Lily’s showdown with Ishim. I really enjoyed seeing this women who had been wronged cut him down with her newfound power.

Facing off against a pirate? - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Alice: While I’m in definite agreement about Castiel’s apology, I also loved Lily’s talk with Sam. They had a nice connection. 

I found it very interesting that all Lily did to get this power was study angels and that her magic tied into the established lore of the power of human souls.

She’s paying a price though in that using that power is slowing burning away her soul. If anyone can relate to how horrible that is, it’s Sam. 

Sean: Yeah, I have to agree about that speech from Castiel to Lily. It felt so honest and open, and I truly belieived he would have been OK if she had chosen to cut him down.

If anything, it was some great closure for the episode and a nice way to top off the story of the hour.

A bloody Castiel - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

What did you think of Lily's daughter not being a nephilim and that Ishim made it up?

Christine: It was a nice twist! I didn't see it coming.

It made my heart hurt for Lily. She didn't ask for Ishim to become totally obsessed with her, and certainly her daughter didn't deserve to die because of it.

Ugh. I have to admit, as the mom of a little girl myself, that scene had me in tears.

But it also was so necessary because it gives Sam, Dean, and Cas a lot to think about when they find Kelly. Because like Sam said, at the end of the day, even if it's Lucifer's kid, they're still dealing with a mother and her child.

Now they've got a tougher choice to make than they initially thought, which I really enjoyed the addition of.

Nightsky: I picked up that the condemned angel (Akobel?) was surprised the angel squad came for a nephilim, so I suspected the girl was human, but I did not expect Ishim’s jealousy and possessiveness.

It was odd that Ishim wanted to go into the house alone to deal with the nephilim, since they are supposed to be creatures of immense power, but the depth of his depravity really surprised me.

Even after all the power-hungry angels and mindless, robotic angels we’ve seen, this was a new low.

Castiel gets a one-on-one meeting - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Alice: That was an okay twist for me. Not too shocking considering how lowly angels regard humans, but wouldn’t the other angels there have known she wasn’t an nephilim?  They can sense one has been conceived yet can’t they tell one is in front of them?  

Why did Ishim need an entourage to justify his act? He couldn’t have come alone? 

Also, what happened to Castiel’s words in Supernatural Season 4 that angels haven’t come to earth in 2000 years? I didn’t hear an, “Oh, except that one time in 1901." Sorry, I’m straying from the question. Not really.

Sean: I really liked the twist because it made the story and characters that much more interesting. Though, I have no answer to Castiel's words from Supernatural Season 4... 

Check out the flannel on this Winchester brother! - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Is that the last we've seen of Lily?

Christine: No way. I think the fandom loved her and will want to see her back. She was bad-ass.

I'd much rather see her return than some of the others that keep popping back up, I'll tell you that.

Plus, she may have had her revenge, but there are other bad angels out there for her to fight, if she so chooses.

Nightsky: I don’t think so. Alicia Witt is an established actress, so I think Lily is being set up as a recurring character.

There was that pique of interest from Sam in gaining angel power, plus her admission that revenge is all she’s known. Her life will now need purpose, and who wouldn’t love a female Cyclops on the team!

“We’re the Winchesters, and we’re here to help” - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Alice: I hope not. She’s a strong, powerful female character, and this show needs those desperately. Alicia Witt was fantastic and was able to tell Lily’s whole life story with one troubled gaze. 

Also, now that Lily’s out of the revenge business and missing part of her soul, maybe she’ll realize taking on Lucifer’s offspring is a new purpose and a way to go out with a bang. 

Or maybe not.

Sean: I'm sure we'll see her back. And with the way things ended, I'd be OK with that, too.

Can Sam, Dean and Castiel come up with an alternative to killing Lucifer's baby?

Christine: I think so. They've pulled rabbits out of hats before.

I think the bigger problem they'll face will be the other demons who'll want to kill the baby. And then what?

Does it become a "3 Men and a Baby" scenario for the Winchesters and Cas?

Everybody squeeze in - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Nightsky: I don’t think it’s a matter of thinking of an alternative. I think Sam, and now Cas, will want to first see if the baby is a force of evil or good.

If good, they will choose to save and defend it.

Alice: Of course. They always find a way. They’re heroes. 

Personally, I think they’ll find out it’ll be impossible to kill it just like Amara. Who knows, maybe the baby will turn out more like Uncle Gabriel and have a moral side. 

The brothers could take he or she out for ice cream on occasions and play in the park on Sunday afternoons. 

Sam and Dean could really use a powerful ally, and I like the idea of them being role models to a little tyke. Hey, it’s not any more far fetched than what we’ve seen these last few seasons.  

Sean: Probably, though I don't know how they are going to pull it off. As long as it feels satisfying and not like the Darkness and God just making up and leaving.

On the hunt for Lucifer’s baby - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Will those "cosmic consequences" mean the death of a character or something else entirely?

Christine: I'm leaning toward something else entirely right now. I think a character death seems too obvious - Mary's death in particular.

Maybe cosmic consequences has something to do with the being of Death? Maybe breaking the deal with Billie is what brought Death back, and there's some undead stuff about to go down... it's so hard to speculate on this one!

Nightsky: We now have two cosmic powers introduced into the plotline: a consequence for breaking a blood oath, and a love child of an archangel.

It’s possible the nephilim will be needed to correct the cosmic imbalance that’s coming.

Castiel means business - Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10

Alice: Something else. Deaths on this show have grown pretty cliche, have they not? 

I don’t know, Andrew Dabb thinks that God and Amara making up and floating away was a great twist, so I’m very skeptical about his grand idea of “cosmic consequences.” 

The Winchesters, all of them, just being alive goes against the cosmic balance. I’m really at a loss what sort of consequence could happen that would up the stakes or genuinely surprise us.

Sean: I'd say a death such as Castiel or Mary, but then at the same time, I could see the writers finding a way around it to bring them back. So maybe something else?

Sean McKenna was a TV Fanatic Staff Writer. He retired in May of 2017. Follow him on Twitter.

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Supernatural Season 12 Episode 10 Quotes

If I plan to do anything else stupid, I’ll let you know.


I’m sorry. I was wrong. While it’s true that I didn’t know we were killing an innocent, ignorance is no excuse. I truly can’t imagine the depths of your loss. This was your child. I can’t imagine the pain. So if you leave here and you find that you can’t forgive me, I’ll be waiting.