Castle Review: Tomorrow's Never Promised Comments (Page 2)
105 Comments
NoHassleCastle
April 5th, 2012 1:54 PM
Another couple-that-worked TV show: Scarecrow & Mrs. King. They started out similar to Caskett, fell in love, and had success after they got together. And I maintain that Remington Steele -- the show that "Castle" most closely resembles in my mind -- would have continued to work had the show gone on. In that one, Steele and Holt acknowledged their attraction well before acting upon it, still had tension, and the cases were very similar to what we see on "Castle." Had Pierce Brosnan not been lured to features (and eventually, the role of 007), who knows where that show would have gone? IT CAN WORK, PEOPLE!
@Everlong: Ross and Rachael worked, to a point, but largely because they were merely one of a number of on-again off-again relationships in a very equal ensemble cast. The show didn't revolve around them. Even so, by the time it was finally over, a large number of fans were sick of it, no longer cared, and even felt cheated at the resolution -- especially since it involved Rachael giving up her career in Paris.
But the idea of Kate reading a Nikky Heat novel is brilliant. Have you seen any in the stores? I saw one in Chapters and wanted so badly to buy it, but it was hard cover and way too much money. There's even an author's picture (Nathaniel Fillion, of course) and bio on the jacket.
Everlong
April 5th, 2012 9:48 AM
More onscreen romances that work? Ross and Rachael from Friends, How about the spark that we all could feel with Jack and Kate from Lost?
With all the times Castle saves Beckett, and visa versa... there is a spark. He loves his daughter, and I bet you he'd give his live to save Kates.
I hope they don't muck it up with intro of his CIA father...
I am hoping (next year) for a Nikki Heat episode, narrated by Stana, reading from her bed, relaxing after a stressful day at the precinct.
Everlong
April 5th, 2012 9:33 AM
So cool when Lanie said to Kate, come'on, you guys are in a holding pattern and what happens when the gas runs out while your flying around in circles. So many angles. One interesting point the writers tried to pull off was where Castle noted that he and Beckett weren't synched on theorys for once.. but they they blew it for me when Castle came up with the rappeling down the building.. and in comes Beckett dressed to the nines, what , she changed at work?
If Marlowe is reading this, then good-take note what watchers are saying. I remember Stana Katic interviewed not to long ago saying that things were going to get naughty. Maybe if she wants to unravel Castle, she should put on Fracas Parfum, (episode 4x13- Rick's personal female fragrance... while he's stepping out with his blonde bimbo! At least Castle didn't show up with a girl on each arm at the end.
janet
April 5th, 2012 8:51 AM
every show is different maybe it could work you never know
@Joyeful: Missed your comment on Chuck -- but it only serves to prove the point. The characters were kept apart for a limited length of time, and therefore the "will-they-won't-they" element never became an essential part of the show.
Of course they can work -- if they're established at the beginning. Sue has already mentioned a couple of examples (Hart to Hart, The Thin Man), and in each case the crime-fighting couple are together right from the start. The problem comes when you have star-crossed lovers -- a couple that isn't a couple, and whose romantic dance makes up a large part of the show's appeal. If you bring them together, then the audience, which is naturally composed largely of people who thrive on star-crossed lover stories, are no longer interested, and the show is over. If you keep them apart, the reasons for doing so become increasingly unbelievable and annoying.
The star-crossed lovers theme works well when done in a short-term story, like a movie or a show with a limited and pre-set number of episodes (something the British have always been more willing to do). They're the basis of Romcoms, and have produced some of the best movies out there -- inc
Alan Sinclar
April 5th, 2012 7:31 AM
I'm a huge fan of this show, but I miss the old funny, witty Castle. But, as the writers are clearly waiting for the season finale to make a move, I think we will have to wait for next season to have something new or entertaining. My guess : they get finally together in the last half hour of the season, then a big secret (another) comes out, so they can run with for most of the fifth season ...
Lyn Bockmiller
April 5th, 2012 2:22 AM
Marlowe must not read these because all I see is negative thing that fan are writing and a lot more fan don't write so this is a wake up call to marlowe to wake up and get on the ball this thing is going down hill fast I read what he said and he on a different world i think his smoking some funny stuff he talks like all is OK I think his lost it!!!!!!!
GA Viewer
April 4th, 2012 7:43 PM
I'm bored. These are two sophisticated, mature people who have no business acting like 15 year old kids. They should be either in or out, but it's gone on so long now, I don't know how the writers expect to extricate them without disaster. If they both move on, the show is over. If only one moves on, the show is over, if they get together the show can continue for a little while - but basically, the thing has run it course. Too bad, because it has been one of my favorites for years.
joyeful Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 7:18 PM
The romantic crime-fighting leads totally can work. Take Chuck, for example. Chuck and Sarah were kept apart for 2.5 seasons - fans had a similar reaction to this Castle one when Brandon Routh was introduced for Sarah...ridiculous. But when they finally put the two together, it was freakin' magic. The story was just as rich with them as a couple as it was with them apart - and half the fun was watching them grow as a couple!
It's doable - you just need writers who trust their fans' feedback and their loyalty.
David
April 4th, 2012 6:06 PM
Well if I told someone that I loved them in a life changing moment, like being shot, then later in the hospital, asked them do you remember anything and they look me square in the eyes and said "No", and later again asked did they remember anything and still get a "No", and months later discovered that they actually remember ALL of. Which happened here.
I'd be pissed but also I'd take the denials as if they don't want to get involved. Would I talk to her about it? No, there's no reason to believe after her denials that I'd be told the truth anyway.
Moving on time.
Yeah he's rubbing her face in it a bit but she deserves it.
85 comments wow :)
Sue Ann Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 5:45 PM
@KansasGuest I have never seen Fringe. I severely limit my television time, as I have watched too much already for one lifetime. It sounds as though I missed a good one, there. Too bad.
Someone (not I) in a comment on a previous episode of either Bones or Castle mentioned a few other shows where the primaries have sex, but the shows work anyway. One was Hart to Hart. I have mentioned several times that clever repartee-laden plots can be found in some of the better old movies, such as the Thin Man series, and most of the Tracy-Hepburn movies, and the Hepburn-Cary Grant movies. Good writers can achieve this. Sadly, these shows seem to lack good writers, and good actors seldom overcome bad writing.
KansasGuest
April 4th, 2012 4:09 PM
@Frank & Sue Ann - Completely agree w/you about THE MENTALIST (which I thoroughly enjoy as a procedural sans romantic complications). BONES & CASTLE seem to be in similar predicaments. They lucked out with supporting casts that are so strong most people enjoy watching them as much as the leads. I will point out one show where the romance has been incorporated so much into the theme of the show that it's crucial - FRINGE. But, FRINGE is different because it has always been about love & family finding each other more than the case of the week.
Sue Ann Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 3:40 PM
@ Frank Lee MeiDere Again, I agree. I was so appalled by Bones tonight that I was nearly speechless. It has reached the point where I think I won't be watching it any more. It was dreadful. They should have ended that show at the airport, when he went to war, and she went to excavate the missing link. It has never been good since.
MJ_McBelle
April 4th, 2012 1:58 PM
Get them together already! I'm getting frustrated. Castle finds out she lied about remembering what happened after she got shot which she suggested that she lied about not remembering what he said. And now he's mad because she lied and now he thinks that she lied because she doesn't feel the same way. Now that he's messing around with some bimbos, she's thinking maybe he's not the guy. If they would just talk to each other, they can fix it.
I love them together. Get them together and I really hope like hell that he doesn't get married or she doesn't start dating. They're usually in sync with their theories and now it's all messed up.
I do agree. There seems to be a pattern. When he doesn't get who he wants, he goes back to that playboy persona. It's annoying and he should just talk to her.
@Sue Ann: Bruno Heller was extremely smart to keep Patrick and Lisbon's love lives separate. Not only does it avoid the "Moonlighting" problem, it also gives the program more scope.
As for this week's Castle, the only good thing I'll say is that it was still better than this week's Bones -- but then, that's a bar set too low to cast a shadow.
NoHassleCastle
April 4th, 2012 12:09 PM
Just thought about something: In Season 2 "A Rose for Everafter" Beckett remarked to Castle in the precinct elevator that she didn't think Rick "went for real" in describing Kyra Blaine (Alyssa Milano). After losing "the one that got away" -- giving her the same space Castle's been giving Beckett -- Rick goes and marries two women he admits he shouldn't have, and starts in on the dilletente playboy lifestyle. I sense a pattern developing here with the flight attendant...
Sue Ann Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 3:13 AM
@ Frank Lee MeiDere I so agree with you about The Mentalist. It is a relief to have a really good mystery show with no romantic complications between the leads. In the case of that show, it also helps that the only character I particularly like is Cho. But one never has to dither over the hidden meanings in glances or touches, it's "On with the solving!"
In the case of this week's episode of Castle, I gave it the lowest rating I have ever given a show. Further than that, I will observe the old saying, "If you can't say something good, say nothing at all." So, I will say nothing at all.
Bigtimetopbanana
April 4th, 2012 12:34 AM
The poor writing goes along with some awful acting. Colin Hunt? The comedy name is bad enough. But his accent was more South African than East London. It wasn't even funny. It felt like a spoof comedy episode.
Damnn. 74 comments? I'm not gonna read through all those... but as for the whole staying true to the characters comments I see on the first page, I totally agree with Joyeful.
Anyhoo, about the episode. I thought it was good. Got to watch it! Live! Whoo! Haha. My favorite scene was Castle's idea to get into the secure building and Ryan/Espo's response. I was laughing so hard. One moment that really shone in this episode as the characters staying true to themselves.
I did like the scene between Lanie and Beckett at the beginning though.
Well that's it from me. Looks like in the next few weeks they are going to be growing apart :'( *sigh*
The big problem, of course, is that bringing together the "star-crossed lovers" is sure death. No show has survived it. It can be done with secondary characters, but not with main ones. The most famous instance, of course, is David and Maddie from Moonlighting. But there are dozens of others. Once Niles and Daphne got together, the Frasier show was pretty well over. That Seventies Show only stayed alive after Eric and Donna got together by pulling them apart again. Same with Cheers, with Sam and Diane. Buffy and Angel could never really come together, but at least in their case there was a very, very good reason. And of course, Captain Reynolds and Inara would not have been able to become a couple if Firefly had continued. (Although I will say that if anyone could pull it off, it would be Joss Whedon.)
To be honest, I wonder why so many people create shows with star-crossed lovers as the foundation, since they know it's a lose-lose situation
everlong
April 3rd, 2012 9:30 PM
I liked with Joyful had to say, the writers have lost sight of what we fell in love with the charactors, and this year is certainly much different from what the first three seasons made it so lovable.
bockylyn
April 3rd, 2012 8:51 PM
just a little info for some people 1- Bones has 10 million fan on facebook and just got sign for a 8th year. now castle has 2- million fans on facebook and the show as we all know the powers to be don't know what the hell to do I like C & B but they only do what their told. and the Bones and Booth got together and have a baby now we have a different way to go but the crime will be the same and the Show will go on now lets get C & B together and get on with the Show it's not going to take away from the Show but add some new surprise's lot more to work with for the writers..
@geek: I was so pleased with The Mentalist when it became apparent that Patrick and Lisbon were never going to be romantically involved. This makes it unnecessary for the writers to come up with increasingly idiotic obstacles while trying to decide when the characters should finally "consummate their love" (and effectively end the show).
The particular obstacle now in play with Castle is somewhat believable. Not a lot, mind you, and certainly not something that she couldn't fix in about five minutes, since she already knows how he feels. But what isn't believable is Castle becoming a complete moron, losing all interest in the police work, and dreaming up schemes that a six-year-old would reject as childish.
Castle: Katherine Houghton Beckett, will you marry me?
April 5th, 2012 1:54 PM
Another couple-that-worked TV show: Scarecrow & Mrs. King. They started out similar to Caskett, fell in love, and had success after they got together. And I maintain that Remington Steele -- the show that "Castle" most closely resembles in my mind -- would have continued to work had the show gone on. In that one, Steele and Holt acknowledged their attraction well before acting upon it, still had tension, and the cases were very similar to what we see on "Castle." Had Pierce Brosnan not been lured to features (and eventually, the role of 007), who knows where that show would have gone? IT CAN WORK, PEOPLE!
Rank: Guest Star
April 5th, 2012 1:50 PM
@Everlong: Ross and Rachael worked, to a point, but largely because they were merely one of a number of on-again off-again relationships in a very equal ensemble cast. The show didn't revolve around them. Even so, by the time it was finally over, a large number of fans were sick of it, no longer cared, and even felt cheated at the resolution -- especially since it involved Rachael giving up her career in Paris.
But the idea of Kate reading a Nikky Heat novel is brilliant. Have you seen any in the stores? I saw one in Chapters and wanted so badly to buy it, but it was hard cover and way too much money. There's even an author's picture (Nathaniel Fillion, of course) and bio on the jacket.
April 5th, 2012 9:48 AM
More onscreen romances that work? Ross and Rachael from Friends, How about the spark that we all could feel with Jack and Kate from Lost?
With all the times Castle saves Beckett, and visa versa... there is a spark. He loves his daughter, and I bet you he'd give his live to save Kates.
I hope they don't muck it up with intro of his CIA father...
I am hoping (next year) for a Nikki Heat episode, narrated by Stana, reading from her bed, relaxing after a stressful day at the precinct.
April 5th, 2012 9:33 AM
So cool when Lanie said to Kate, come'on, you guys are in a holding pattern and what happens when the gas runs out while your flying around in circles. So many angles. One interesting point the writers tried to pull off was where Castle noted that he and Beckett weren't synched on theorys for once.. but they they blew it for me when Castle came up with the rappeling down the building.. and in comes Beckett dressed to the nines, what , she changed at work?
If Marlowe is reading this, then good-take note what watchers are saying. I remember Stana Katic interviewed not to long ago saying that things were going to get naughty. Maybe if she wants to unravel Castle, she should put on Fracas Parfum, (episode 4x13- Rick's personal female fragrance... while he's stepping out with his blonde bimbo! At least Castle didn't show up with a girl on each arm at the end.
April 5th, 2012 8:51 AM
every show is different maybe it could work you never know
Rank: Guest Star
April 5th, 2012 8:34 AM
@Joyeful: Missed your comment on Chuck -- but it only serves to prove the point. The characters were kept apart for a limited length of time, and therefore the "will-they-won't-they" element never became an essential part of the show.
Rank: Guest Star
April 5th, 2012 8:31 AM
@Joyful and others on romantic leads working.
Of course they can work -- if they're established at the beginning. Sue has already mentioned a couple of examples (Hart to Hart, The Thin Man), and in each case the crime-fighting couple are together right from the start. The problem comes when you have star-crossed lovers -- a couple that isn't a couple, and whose romantic dance makes up a large part of the show's appeal. If you bring them together, then the audience, which is naturally composed largely of people who thrive on star-crossed lover stories, are no longer interested, and the show is over. If you keep them apart, the reasons for doing so become increasingly unbelievable and annoying.
The star-crossed lovers theme works well when done in a short-term story, like a movie or a show with a limited and pre-set number of episodes (something the British have always been more willing to do). They're the basis of Romcoms, and have produced some of the best movies out there -- inc
April 5th, 2012 7:31 AM
I'm a huge fan of this show, but I miss the old funny, witty Castle. But, as the writers are clearly waiting for the season finale to make a move, I think we will have to wait for next season to have something new or entertaining. My guess : they get finally together in the last half hour of the season, then a big secret (another) comes out, so they can run with for most of the fifth season ...
April 5th, 2012 2:22 AM
Marlowe must not read these because all I see is negative thing that fan are writing and a lot more fan don't write so this is a wake up call to marlowe to wake up and get on the ball this thing is going down hill fast I read what he said and he on a different world i think his smoking some funny stuff he talks like all is OK I think his lost it!!!!!!!
April 4th, 2012 7:43 PM
I'm bored. These are two sophisticated, mature people who have no business acting like 15 year old kids. They should be either in or out, but it's gone on so long now, I don't know how the writers expect to extricate them without disaster. If they both move on, the show is over. If only one moves on, the show is over, if they get together the show can continue for a little while - but basically, the thing has run it course. Too bad, because it has been one of my favorites for years.
Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 7:18 PM
The romantic crime-fighting leads totally can work. Take Chuck, for example. Chuck and Sarah were kept apart for 2.5 seasons - fans had a similar reaction to this Castle one when Brandon Routh was introduced for Sarah...ridiculous. But when they finally put the two together, it was freakin' magic. The story was just as rich with them as a couple as it was with them apart - and half the fun was watching them grow as a couple!
It's doable - you just need writers who trust their fans' feedback and their loyalty.
April 4th, 2012 6:06 PM
Well if I told someone that I loved them in a life changing moment, like being shot, then later in the hospital, asked them do you remember anything and they look me square in the eyes and said "No", and later again asked did they remember anything and still get a "No", and months later discovered that they actually remember ALL of. Which happened here.
I'd be pissed but also I'd take the denials as if they don't want to get involved. Would I talk to her about it? No, there's no reason to believe after her denials that I'd be told the truth anyway.
Moving on time.
Yeah he's rubbing her face in it a bit but she deserves it.
85 comments wow :)
Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 5:45 PM
@KansasGuest I have never seen Fringe. I severely limit my television time, as I have watched too much already for one lifetime. It sounds as though I missed a good one, there. Too bad.
Someone (not I) in a comment on a previous episode of either Bones or Castle mentioned a few other shows where the primaries have sex, but the shows work anyway. One was Hart to Hart. I have mentioned several times that clever repartee-laden plots can be found in some of the better old movies, such as the Thin Man series, and most of the Tracy-Hepburn movies, and the Hepburn-Cary Grant movies. Good writers can achieve this. Sadly, these shows seem to lack good writers, and good actors seldom overcome bad writing.
April 4th, 2012 4:09 PM
@Frank & Sue Ann - Completely agree w/you about THE MENTALIST (which I thoroughly enjoy as a procedural sans romantic complications). BONES & CASTLE seem to be in similar predicaments. They lucked out with supporting casts that are so strong most people enjoy watching them as much as the leads. I will point out one show where the romance has been incorporated so much into the theme of the show that it's crucial - FRINGE. But, FRINGE is different because it has always been about love & family finding each other more than the case of the week.
Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 3:40 PM
@ Frank Lee MeiDere Again, I agree. I was so appalled by Bones tonight that I was nearly speechless. It has reached the point where I think I won't be watching it any more. It was dreadful. They should have ended that show at the airport, when he went to war, and she went to excavate the missing link. It has never been good since.
April 4th, 2012 1:58 PM
Get them together already! I'm getting frustrated. Castle finds out she lied about remembering what happened after she got shot which she suggested that she lied about not remembering what he said. And now he's mad because she lied and now he thinks that she lied because she doesn't feel the same way. Now that he's messing around with some bimbos, she's thinking maybe he's not the guy. If they would just talk to each other, they can fix it.
I love them together. Get them together and I really hope like hell that he doesn't get married or she doesn't start dating. They're usually in sync with their theories and now it's all messed up.
I do agree. There seems to be a pattern. When he doesn't get who he wants, he goes back to that playboy persona. It's annoying and he should just talk to her.
Rank: Guest Star
April 4th, 2012 12:59 PM
@Sue Ann: Bruno Heller was extremely smart to keep Patrick and Lisbon's love lives separate. Not only does it avoid the "Moonlighting" problem, it also gives the program more scope.
As for this week's Castle, the only good thing I'll say is that it was still better than this week's Bones -- but then, that's a bar set too low to cast a shadow.
April 4th, 2012 12:09 PM
Just thought about something: In Season 2 "A Rose for Everafter" Beckett remarked to Castle in the precinct elevator that she didn't think Rick "went for real" in describing Kyra Blaine (Alyssa Milano). After losing "the one that got away" -- giving her the same space Castle's been giving Beckett -- Rick goes and marries two women he admits he shouldn't have, and starts in on the dilletente playboy lifestyle. I sense a pattern developing here with the flight attendant...
Rank: Regular Character
April 4th, 2012 3:13 AM
@ Frank Lee MeiDere I so agree with you about The Mentalist. It is a relief to have a really good mystery show with no romantic complications between the leads. In the case of that show, it also helps that the only character I particularly like is Cho. But one never has to dither over the hidden meanings in glances or touches, it's "On with the solving!"
In the case of this week's episode of Castle, I gave it the lowest rating I have ever given a show. Further than that, I will observe the old saying, "If you can't say something good, say nothing at all." So, I will say nothing at all.
April 4th, 2012 12:34 AM
The poor writing goes along with some awful acting. Colin Hunt? The comedy name is bad enough. But his accent was more South African than East London. It wasn't even funny. It felt like a spoof comedy episode.
Rank: Guest Star
April 4th, 2012 12:14 AM
Damnn. 74 comments? I'm not gonna read through all those... but as for the whole staying true to the characters comments I see on the first page, I totally agree with Joyeful.
Anyhoo, about the episode. I thought it was good. Got to watch it! Live! Whoo! Haha. My favorite scene was Castle's idea to get into the secure building and Ryan/Espo's response. I was laughing so hard. One moment that really shone in this episode as the characters staying true to themselves.
I did like the scene between Lanie and Beckett at the beginning though.
Well that's it from me. Looks like in the next few weeks they are going to be growing apart :'( *sigh*
Rank: Guest Star
April 3rd, 2012 10:30 PM
The big problem, of course, is that bringing together the "star-crossed lovers" is sure death. No show has survived it. It can be done with secondary characters, but not with main ones. The most famous instance, of course, is David and Maddie from Moonlighting. But there are dozens of others. Once Niles and Daphne got together, the Frasier show was pretty well over. That Seventies Show only stayed alive after Eric and Donna got together by pulling them apart again. Same with Cheers, with Sam and Diane. Buffy and Angel could never really come together, but at least in their case there was a very, very good reason. And of course, Captain Reynolds and Inara would not have been able to become a couple if Firefly had continued. (Although I will say that if anyone could pull it off, it would be Joss Whedon.)
To be honest, I wonder why so many people create shows with star-crossed lovers as the foundation, since they know it's a lose-lose situation
April 3rd, 2012 9:30 PM
I liked with Joyful had to say, the writers have lost sight of what we fell in love with the charactors, and this year is certainly much different from what the first three seasons made it so lovable.
April 3rd, 2012 8:51 PM
just a little info for some people 1- Bones has 10 million fan on facebook and just got sign for a 8th year. now castle has 2- million fans on facebook and the show as we all know the powers to be don't know what the hell to do I like C & B but they only do what their told. and the Bones and Booth got together and have a baby now we have a different way to go but the crime will be the same and the Show will go on now lets get C & B together and get on with the Show it's not going to take away from the Show but add some new surprise's lot more to work with for the writers..
Rank: Guest Star
April 3rd, 2012 8:36 PM
@geek: I was so pleased with The Mentalist when it became apparent that Patrick and Lisbon were never going to be romantically involved. This makes it unnecessary for the writers to come up with increasingly idiotic obstacles while trying to decide when the characters should finally "consummate their love" (and effectively end the show).
The particular obstacle now in play with Castle is somewhat believable. Not a lot, mind you, and certainly not something that she couldn't fix in about five minutes, since she already knows how he feels. But what isn't believable is Castle becoming a complete moron, losing all interest in the police work, and dreaming up schemes that a six-year-old would reject as childish.