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Jane: This is Red John. Lisbon: How can you tell? Jane: Because when it's him I can feel it.The Mentalist Clips
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Jane: This is Red John. Lisbon: How can you tell? Jane: Because when it's him I can feel it.
February 8th, 2013 8:28 PM
Continued. . He made it look accidental and was never suspected. He inherited all their wealth and proceeded to use it to gain ever greater control of others.
He found Visualize to be an ideal place for that and became a generous donor. This gave him access to any number of gullible, needy people he could manipulate into doing his will by offering them love, money, influence, a new life – whatever their neediness required.
He began his serial killing about that time, sometimes do-ing it himself, sometimes hav-ing his minions do it to show their loyalty. He killed mostly women out of hatred of his mother for never loving him and never protecting him from his father's beatings.
Through donations to Visualize he bought the favors of politi-cians and others in high places, and placed his minions in crucial positions as infor-mants, surrogates and assas-sins. Because Visualize was a church, and therefore immune from government investigation, his role was not discovered.
February 8th, 2013 8:26 PM
While we're waiting for the next Mentalist episode, I thought I'd take a shot at profiling Red John, extrapolated from the sparse info given so far and his voice and demeanor:
He's about the same age as Jane. He was the only child of emotionally distant and physi-cally abusive parents. He de-veloped a somewhat pleading way of speaking and learned to be manipulative and exploitive to survive.
His very wealthy parents gave him every thing he wanted ex-cept love. When they beat him they said it was out of love. He went to private schools where he focused on philosophy and psychology along with literature and poetry. He was probably bullied for his somewhat ef-feminate ways. He has refined tastes befitting his upper class heritage.
At an early age he began to re-bel against parental cruelty, and to seek to control his life and that of others by torturing and killing small animals. In his teens when he was past the age of requiring guardianship, he murdered his parents. He made
February 8th, 2013 6:17 PM
@rationalgal You remember correctly about the profiler. At the end of that episode she handed Jane the Red John profile she worked up. He threw it in the trash. But he almost immediately turned around and grabbed it out of the bin before leaving the room! So he has it. Wonder what's in it, wish they could have shared some of that.
@anitraward1 Be looking for ya!
February 8th, 2013 6:13 PM
Love the poetry references and analyses! The Wm Blake poems clearly are meant to give a philosophical foundation to the story - meaning (or meaningless) of life stuff. Therefore the ending will have to include some meaningful insights, not just your standard faceoff and shootout. I expect it to be surprisingly different from other crime procedurals, with the crimes irrelevant to the "big picture" that RJ minions and Visualize seem so enthused about. We need to do some profiling of Red John. There have been hints here and there that this should be done. Jane dismissed that scientific "cave man" profiler as foolishness, tho at the end (if I remember correctly) he warmed up to her in a way that suggested she might be on to something.
February 8th, 2013 5:50 PM
Hi all! I've missed you all. Changed shifts recently and its been beating me up a little. I kept up with the read. Good stuff. I like the poem, can't wait to dive in.
February 8th, 2013 3:03 PM
@km love all the poetry (and analysis). thanks.
February 8th, 2013 4:02 AM
oh forgot what I wanted to mention, there was a tweet addressed to J Gadd where someone asked for more jisbon moments and he says that we'll have to wait a bit more, so dont know if it's just typical jisbon moments or more.. it's on the FB page..
February 8th, 2013 3:59 AM
hi everyone! how are you today/night?
KM it's funny you mention 4*22 cos I watched it again yesterday, this episode makes me laugh, cute how Jane teases her about Gregg! Lisbon definitely has attatchment issues because of her background.
I have never thought about the peom, it's only since I came here that I've taken the analysis to another level. So I'll look further into it.
Yesterday I was in bed and thought what if Simon found this link and was reading us, he would have a blast I'm sure!
thanks for the links, Ive liked the FB page!
February 8th, 2013 2:36 AM
took a look at scarlet fever. that's a quick eye flicker on jane's part. do hope he was appreciating lisbon's little keester. then, i re-watched bloodhounds. dr. montague (the statistical profiler) gave jane a study of red john run through her statistical model. she said looking at something from a greater distance can help you understand it. a bit before bloodhounds, was red moon. in the opening sequence is a beautiful crane shot over three different rows in the field, each with a different victim killed in a different style. when patrick confronts todd johnson in the motel room, todd says you don't see the whole picture. it would blow your mind. at the end, todd said, tyger, tyger. feel like it's 2 years later and we don't know that much more than red john has a lot of groupies and wm. blake is really really good. shouldn't we have more of the big picture? the method to the madness?
February 7th, 2013 11:57 PM
@Entwife,
No worries. Thanks heaps for the links.
@Boneduz,
You're welcome. I'd like to think that if any person affiliated (SB included) with TM came on these threads they would be a bit chuffed by our thoughtful musings on their work and for the respectful kindness they see amongst us.
February 7th, 2013 10:52 PM
@Bonaduz -- I thought about that possibility, too, no telling how it really came about, but they did keep the shot instead of editing it out. Really got a good giggle out of it :-) I think the Tennyson poem is pretty hard to understand, too. I read that he wrote it in response to the impact of Darwin's theory of evolution and survival of the fittest which had just become widely known. The impact of that theory at the time was pretty earthshaking to everyone, trying to make sense and understand its import and all. Ha, and not only is The Mentalist making us all read poetry, it has us talking endlessly of this Simon Baker vehicle and his work in it!!
February 7th, 2013 10:38 PM
@Entwife: I saw that little look too - and smiled about it. But I think some of these tiny moments are just the actors' reactions and not necesserily in the script or demanded by the director. Maybe Mr. Baker just enjoyed Miss Tunney sitting down on the desk? @KM: I looked up that poem - and I love it. Some things are a bit hard to understand for me, but specially after your explanation I start to understand it. Also @rationalgal: the Tyger Tyger poem starts to make sense to me too, after I read it severel times. You guys are turning me into a poem fan :-) - awesome! A while ago (can't remember where) I read an interview with Simon Baker about his work. He said, that the most important for him as an actor was, that people start to think about what they see, that they talk about it and share their experiences with others. Well - I have to say: Isn't that what we all do here? Mr. Baker can be proud of you all and of his work as Patrick Jane!
February 7th, 2013 8:21 PM
I've not picked up either the bass or bourbon and I still messed up. The title of Ep. 14 is found in Canto LVI or 56. Sorry.
February 7th, 2013 8:02 PM
And the last stanza of Canto 50
O life as futile, then, as frail!
O for thy voice to soothe and bless!
What hope of answer, or redress?
Behind the veil, behind the veil
Sorry for too many posts. I love the poetry (and literary references) used in TM. They divert from plot holes for me.
February 7th, 2013 7:58 PM
The stanza proceeding where we find the title.
“Man, her last work , who seem'd so fair.
Such splendid purpose in his eyes,
Who roll'd the psalm to wintry skies,
Who built him fanes of fruitless prayer”
Cont.
February 7th, 2013 7:56 PM
Here's a few more verses to my point. Then I must cease with annoying my International Baccalaureate student who is knee deep in Robert Frost at the moment.
From Canto 49.
Are God and Nature then at strife,
That Nature lends such evil dreams?
So careful of the type she seems,
So careless of the single life;
Cont.
February 7th, 2013 7:48 PM
@rationalgirl and others, It has been pointed out that 14th gets its name from Tennyson's "In Memorium" (or the rock album), which is a long poem, 133 cantos. The line is found in Canto 50:
"Who trusted God was love indeed
And love Creation's final law–
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and claw
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed–"
The quick and dirty theme within is that Nature has its way despite man's belief in God and prayers. Cont.
February 7th, 2013 6:26 PM
I'm watching "Scarlett Fever" on reruns on TNT. What a lark! Lisbon just parked her butt, leaning on a table in the CBI office. Jane eyed her rear end and smiled. Happened so fast! What a hoot!
February 7th, 2013 5:00 PM
@rationalgal - I agree with all of your plot anomalies, but I doubt these things will ever be explained - unfortunately. It is just lazy writing. And I agree with your Blake explanation as well.
February 7th, 2013 4:41 PM
Still worrying about the handshakes: Why is it that Jane can spot a potential mass murderer as he casually passes him while walking down the street, yet he can't spot a vicious sadistic serial killer - one who murdered his family! - when he shakes hands with him? Also, since RJ has been shown consistently has having an odd voice, why hasn't Jane been able to remember that voice when he can remember the circumstances under which he shook hands with over 2000 people? (Those are in addition to all the followup investigations of RJ he hasn't done.) More than a few plot anomalies need explaining here.
February 7th, 2013 4:33 PM
Mimi and others: (Getting a bit deep here.) The nature TV shows are a reference to the William Blake poem, Tiger Tiger, presented as the underlying theme of the series. Good and evil are 2 sides of the coin, predatory and prey are in lockstep, and Jane and Red John are the two sides in conflict. Death is a part of life and cannot be avoided. RJ, representing Death, cannot ultimately be defeated and must be accepted - even welcomed sometimes - for the reality he represents. Death's minions in the series do the grim reaping. "He is ma..." (probably "many" because the next letter starts with a vertical line.) Among them: Roy Talgliaferro killed the morgue attendant; Timothy Carter very likely killed Jane's family, then welcomed Death at Jane's hands; Rebecca killed Bosco and his team, then welcomed Death at a security guard's hands as he approached with the poison. (I really do need to get a life!)
February 7th, 2013 4:19 PM
@ Mimi,
They have always shown her working late. In 4*22 at the end Jane is asking her about some guy and she makes a comment about when she saw he was a nail biter it ruined it. Then he tells her she is intense. Later clarifying that isn't a bad thing. Perhaps part of her scars from her childhood relationship with her father makes it hard for her? (Greg did say she was stronger than she was when they were together in that epidode.) She also guards and distances herself emotionally. Jane and Lisbon are an interesting pair and it makes me wonder about if they ever do get together which one will take the risk and make the first move.
February 7th, 2013 1:26 PM
btw, when we look at the characters, Rigsby was with Grace then Sarah and in between a few flings. Cho was with Elise then Summer. Grace had a thing with the attorney who wanted to kill Jane, then Rigsby, then O laughlin.
But what baout Lisbon? nothing except a fling with Mashburn, why is she still single? why don't they put her with a lover? I'd love to see Jane's reaction.
just wondering why they made her single all this time except for a fling.. even jane had more going on than she did.
February 7th, 2013 11:59 AM
yes KM I think there is a meaning to it, I remember he was also watching one in the pilot. Also when he meets Lorelei and they talk about right or wrong. funny how she says it's wrong to kill people while he says stuff happen one damn thing after another and in the end, she's the one being evil while he didn't mean any of it.
February 7th, 2013 10:54 AM
@mimi,
I'm not sure why, but Jane does like those animal shows. He was watching one in the pilot. It would appear he watches them when he can't sleep. Maybe it is symbolic in that predators kill to survive and there is no right or wrong to it? A zebra's right to life is no greater than the lion's. Do not murder is a human construct. Maybe we were supposed to wonder who was the zebra and who was the lion on the bed? Maybe Jane's grief and desire for vengeance make watching TV dramas or comedy stupid for him?