The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List > Comments Page 37
Entwife, what I don't get is why so many people think that Jane fell for her.
The episode the Red Barn didn't say some really interesting things. 1) Why did Visualize by so many farms and then staff them with people that didn't know anything about farming? 2) what were thry really doing on those farms? 3)Do they still own the properties? 4) Why was the school teacher so afraid of the sheriff? 5)Why did the doggy day care woman lie about knowing anything about Visualize? 6)Is Ellinston controlled by Visualize?
Yes, @anitraward1, and Jane surely would know he's a mark to Lorelei and Red John. Jane has to consider Lorelei as his mark in return. I think he does feel some sympathy for her because of what RJ has done to her sister. But that is far from falling for her.
@Mimi Jane's shock at hearing that Lorelei was from RJ seemed very genuine to me, too. It's so hard for me to take a firm position on it, knowing what an effective con man Jane is. But his involvement with L could be a signal to RJ that he gives up, either way. Just more risky if he's really surprised because he had to know he was risking what he thought was an innocent person in that case to the wrath of Red John. Pretty cold for Patrick, but could he have been desperate enough to do it? Don't like to think so, but yeah he probably could.
I have a question? When did Visualize become a church? Throughout the whole series Visualize was referred to as a cult and pretty much demonized by the CBI. Now Ray Hafner comes along and it's a chruch all of a sudden.....and Ray Hafner is a church going good guy? HUH? How could they even allow Hafner to stay in the CBI after that admission? The one thing I did notice is that Lisbon was not buying a bit of his crap and was looking at him like, what is this creep up too.
When Jane hugged Cooper, he took something off him. If you look really close, after Jane huggs Cooper his hand comes down to his pocket. Jane never liked Cooper and there was no other reason to hug him.
THANK YOU! Because I never bought any of that!
@Kate I had the same thought about Jane using sex with Lorelei was a signal that Red John would actually believe, that Jane had truly given up, even being "unfaithful" to his wife after all this time. It was a HUGE shock to me that he slept with L. And it's hard to make sense of why her, why then in a way better than part of the ruse to convince RJ that he'd given up -- whether he knew L was RJ's moll or not, since he knows RJ is monitoring him all the time. However if he didn't know L was from RJ, Jane would have known he was also putting her life in danger by showing an interest in her while under RJ's surveillance. Maybe that would signal giving up, too? Like, do your worst, RJ, I give up, I'm going for it.
@anitraward1 I completely agree with your assessment of Lorelei. She is cold, calculating and Red John's creature all the way!
@Kate I tend to agree about Kirkland's inconsistencies. In fact, in Red Sails when he and Lisbon go to meet Lorelei's mother, he plays a kind of comic role to Lisbon's curt remarks to Mrs. Martens, making rueful faces to the interview going sour. It was pretty funny really. Not what I would expect form a Homeland Security stiff!
Anyone willing to cut two of your fingers off sounds pretty devoted. Red John's trap for Jane is the fact that she is a women. One willing to use all of her womanly charms to ensnare Jane.This woman didn't just happen along, she was sent by Red John. She is pushing Jane's buttons and she's doing a very good job. It's like a prositute, she will tell you annnyttthhhing you want to hear, as long as you pay her. Your name is John from begining to end!I think Jane getting a piece was for the viewers. The rest of it is BS! There is no way the writer's can do it any other way. This has to be a trick!
Cont-- about the kiss, it didn't seem like any great passionate moment, not even any apparent regret in Jane's face about stopping it. He could just have easily been communicating that's all I've got for you, L.
We've been talking so much about Lorelei, I re-watched Red Sails last night,paying particular attention to Jane seeing Lorelei in the ocean and the kiss outside the cabin.The ocean: looks to me that Jane's reserved smile on spotting L in the waves was relief that she hadn't cut out and was right there, he hadn't lost his lead to RJ. Once he spotted her, he did enjoy the view a little bit, but no great lust or heat. In fact, he yawned! So no great love apparent there. The kiss: Jane initiated it in the classic way we ask for a kiss, looking at her face and then his eyes glancing to her lips and then her eyes again. She responded to that nonverbal request kind of dilettantely, in my perception. Her body language is very subtle, but she seems to almost give a little shrug, like what is with this crazy guy, and then kisses him. He stops it to send her on her way, hard to tell who was trying to hold the kiss if either one, but that's what I noticed.
Huisclothes, now you see what I'm talking about! The whole handshake thing is very problematic. That is why I quit looking. This could just be a ruse by Red John to keep Jane busy. I'm not sure I see why he believed Lorelei in the first place. SHE IS A RED JOHN MINION! What I want to know is, being a minion, what makes Lorelei any different then the rest of the minion's who are truly devoted. No one has been able to reason with any of the other minion's. They all stayed the course. I can't possibly entertain the re
idiculous notion that having sex with Jane broke the effects of Red John's strong hold.
you're right he probably feels nothing for Lorelei but he looked genuienly shocked when she said she worked for RJ. the smile when he closed the door to me-at first- was when he realised that right hot second that he had a mean to get to him but it's true that when you think about it, clever as they make him in the show, he can't not have noticed that sthg was quite wrong there, a waitress putting money together for his bail is quite not plausible. and she's cute and sexy so why not have a good time after all lol.
@huisclothes - yes, I agree about Kirkland - definitely seemed odd that he believed everything. And where was he during the whole Volker thing? I thought he turned up because of that in the first place. Odd. I guess we'll be seeing more of him this season? Does anyone know if the actor has more episodes at all?
Like I said, I just don't think the act meant anything to him apart from getting him closer to RJ. When you see how nervous he got on that date with Kristina Frye and the way he backed off from Erica after that kiss, not to mention the obvious backtrack with Lisbon - he just hasn't shown those tendencies with Lorelei at all for me. To me, when she's coming out of the sea, he's just pleased she hasn't left because he knows he's probably starting to get to her. That, and what man isn't going to enjoy seeing a pretty woman naked! I think he's sympathetic to her character, more so now that he knows what she's been through, but everything else seems just a ploy on his part. Friends close, enemies closer type of thing. Quite cold really.
@mimi - yeah, see I think he did know that Lorelei was something to do with Red John before he slept with her. The fact that she had enough money and bothered to bail him out would've been a clue considering she worked as a 'waitress' and they'd only met once (or was it twice, I can't quite remember)up until then and then his smile after he'd pretended to be upset and got her to leave once she explained who she was - to me he knew exactly what he was doing. That's the reason he left CBI.
And the other thing about Jane's feelings for Lorelei that make me think he's really just using her is his reaction to Lisbon in the car when she brought up about him sleeping with her after all those years of celibacy. Poor Lisbon was awkward and Jane just didn't seem bothered about what he'd done at all. I think we, the viewer, would have been allowed to see some expression from Jane if it were important even if Lisbon didn't. Like I said, I just don't think the act meant anything to him apart
I guess for them as actors it ll feel weird when the day comes I mean they'll have worked together for years and then they'll have to kiss, must feel weird.
its defoo not Laroche as he's not like Rosalind described RJ at all.
it's true now I remember brun said we'd seen him on screen. I have mashburn in mind but he seems too nice.. like a teddy bear.
about Lorelei I just see what you wrote Kate. Well I have to agree but here it is-I guess It all depends wether he was aware of her being a RJ minion or not before he slept with her. Some say he did know, others he didn't, we'll never know but I agree that when she kissed him near the cabin, he didn't seem to enjoy it much, that's how I saw it too but it could have been because he knew the CBI would soon be finding them, so no time to have a good time. At first when they were inside the cabin and he said Id like that, with the bed behind them, I thought he meant sex then ah ok he meant a cup of tea, it was quite ambiguous though.. maybe just me.
@entwife yes. he won't wind up with lorelei but because there's a connection there, it'll be hard to see her as just
rj moll all the time.
i want him to wind up with lisbon, of course.
@kate. yeah, i see what you're saying. but as you're saying that lisbon is not so black and white anymore. i like the idea of jane being conflicted about lorelei -- makes his character even more interesting. "hey, I'm enjoying this bosomy sprite that i slept with swim nude." lust and danger make for great dramatic situations. i think he would lower red john into boiling oil without blinking. you're right, kate, i don't know that he'd ever get into bed with lorelei again (though he did say he'd propose if he needed to.) just think as things stand now, he'd have a hard time hurting her. he'd want her to escape. as to him covering himself. he did some stuff to give himself wiggle room. but lisbon knew and i can't believe that kirkland just swallowed it whole and turned it into the "jane is kidnapped" caper. i didn't buy that. maybe it'll turn out kirkland knew all the time and was just playing a longer game there.
@ mimi - I think Bruno Heller has said a few times in interviews that we may have already met Red John. Unfortunately, after dragging it out five years whoever they decide it'll be (if we do in fact find out who it is this season) there will still be people who will no doubt feel letdown or complain it's a cop out. That's the nature of the viewer and really, unless it's someone we've never met, apart from Bertram, possibly La Roache and a few of the new people we've met this year, I'd be gutted if it was someone I'd come to like - but maybe that's what they plan to do. Shock us. The whole fun is the not knowing.
cont'd - that's the point and that's why he needs to keep her at arms length.
At least he covered himself well in that episode anyway. That's something you wouldn't have seen from Jane a couple of years back. He would have taken her and ran without caring whether they knew he'd took her or not. At least he's planning it a bit better this season - or being even more sneakier, whatever way you want to look at it :)
The main thing that this season is telling me is that Lisbon is more likely to break a few rules to help Jane catch RJ now. She's not so black and white in her views anymore which is why I believe Jane just prompted her on what to do during the Volker case and let her actually do it herself.
huisclothes I wonder too.. I wonder if we actually saw the handshake on screen or not, cos if we did, then we know who RJ is... I wonder if it's someone we have seen, and if so if it's someone we have seen often..
we'll have to be patient!
@huisclothes I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the Lorelei thing. I didn't see enjoyment from Jane when she kissed him, just the way he pushed back and broke the kiss. I don't think the whole sex thing was such a big deal to him as it is to us viewers - just a function to convince RJ that he's reached a new low.
I'm not saying he doesn't understand Lorelei and there's a bit of a sympathetic connection to her, especially when he found out about her sister, but he was quick to use it to his advantage. He's playing a dangerous game with her and while I'm happy for him to have a bit of fun with a woman, for him to sleep with Lorelei again just for pleasure seems really abhorrent to me. She's RJ's girl, and quite an important one at that considering she's still alive - so if he starts to go down that dark road he really will have trouble coming back I think. It's more likely he'll end up being 'friends' with RJ as the killer had wanted in the first place - that's the point
this handshake thing is really bugging me. they've made the distinction over and over that red john is someone whose hand he shook -- not someone he met.
if that's a major plot point, and they're not using it figuratively (which i know some have argued, but then why not say someone he met ?) then shouldn't this story-defining handshake have taken place in front of the camera? he shook hafner's hand. he shook bertram's hand. didn't shake stiles' hand. kirkland made a big point of shaking his hand. he shook volker's hand. didn't shake jason cooper's hand. i'm gonna feel so rooked if the handshake doesn't wind up being paid off in a smart, believable way.
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