The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List > Comments Page 44
@BW&R - the point is nobody knew 3 people had been killed 25 years ago, so nobody suspected anybody. And they probably didn't even realize the smiley is blood. Most people, especially considering RJ was unknown at the time, would assume that was typical graffiti done with spray paint. It would raise no suspicions. It wouldn't even be noteworthy or interesting in any way.
And Stiles may not even know the smiley was there. He didn't live there. Didn't they say the farm was failing? If Visualize sold it soon after, they would never have made the connection.
There are many things about this show that are much more unbelievable to me than this.
Please get rid of Red John, one way or the other. It's over played it's time. Love the show, just not Red John. Don't like it being on Sunday night, but I'll watch it whenever it's on.
@BW&R -- You could be right about everything (Visualize and/or Stiles must have a major role to play in finding Red John!), so don't take this as a disagreement, but you keep saying something that I don't know where you're getting: The bodies were only just discovered on the farm; nobody, until the examiners, in the present, determined they were murdered, knew that they were murdered. There was no clue that any foul play took place on the farm when Visualize owned it.
Also, it was established that all those who were there after it was drawn knew of the smiley face, but it was not established anyone ran and told Stiles about it (does Prez Obama know if there's any graffiti on the wall of the local social security office in your or my town?).
I think Stiles has a clue or two he can/will pass on to Jane.
and arrogance wouldn't take kindly to somebody attacking them and directly insulting them with the cherry on top arrogantly putting a smiley face on their barn. @Feint has an interesting idea that RJ started killing because that was part of Visualize's ritual and message, and if that were true, then it would make sense the whole cover up they've had of RJ and dissociating themselves from him. Still, there's more to it than that and that'd be too easy of a conclusion for the writers. I'm also not totally sold that Stiles freed Lorelei out of prison simply as a power move. We know he knows alot about RJ and we know RJ wouldn't take kindly to somebody controlling one of his top friends at their own choice and releasing her from prison into the wild where she could do anything(RJ has always been protective and on the alert for those ready to give him up). Not as confident about this one, but itt's kind of hard to believe RJ had nothing to do with that.
@mimi makes a good point and really its a good way to show what I was saying earlier; its impossible for that smiley face to be on their for 20+years without anybody knowing. The priest knew about it and talked pretty openly. And Visualize isn't stupid, they know about Red John(stiles made that obvious). There's no way they haven't connected the dots, and they know about RJ's personal life, his life before a serial killer. They have tons of information about him and know when the killing happened. When somebody murders people on one of your farms than arrogantly puts a blood smiley face on it, it grabs your attention and you don't just say "wow, I guess that kind of stuff happens, kids these days". You look into and see who the hell would do something like that at the bare minimum. Right now, RJs a manipulative monster who could outwit anybody, but that wasn't necessarily the case 25 years ago. He was subject to Visualize and its power and surely an organization that has so much pride
@huisclothes: Ah yeah, I forgot about that part. When I was watching the episode(which I'll have to do again today) I felt it was something not to be missed. Does anyone remember what Timothy Carter's background was? I may be wrong but didn't he grow up in Africa and his parents were missionaries? Of course, it's a thin connection but I find it curious. Also, I recall someone from Visualize(maybe Stiles) mentioning they have centers all around the world, including Africa. One more person to have the African connection is Dr. Linus Wagner, who has been my #1 Red John suspect ever since the beginning.
read the comments.. sthg pops in mind though. how come, if the smiley face had been there for 20+ys, how come that it hadnt been reported sooner? I mean RJ is a well know serial killer and everybody knows the smiley face is his insignia. why not report it? someone must have seen it on the farm before. or the police never investigated the area and only inhabitants saw it and thought it was a kid's art and not interesting to tell..
I agree about the last scene being sexy, my heart skipped a beat, I loved that we couldnt really see it but it was clear Jane took her hand, and his voice was so soft. cute in my opinion.
@feint yes, i think that was textbook red john style. very interesting idea that red john started out killing for visualize and then developed a heavy habit. i wrote earler that the animal torture was practice. so rj moving on to shooting people then cutting them up seems plausible. also cutting them, then shooting them.
i think they made a big point of having cbi ron make that appearance. it's not him. but it does seem like there was an awkward moment for jane when he encountered hafner. he put his hand out and almost shook hafner''s hand. he did shake jane's head in his first encounter.
looked at the ep again. questions. patrick made a point of asking the priest if he'd seen a smiley face symbol since the barn and then the priest made a point of saying he was in central america. what was that? the first diner scene with jane telling the retired teacher he might be in trouble was funny. the second diner scene was a long walk for not much pay-off. the coffee pot and the lemon juice? he could have driven over and shown the mother a smiley face. guess they needed that poirot in the drawing room scene. the final scene outside jane's lair played like something from a classic screwball comedy. excellent writing, beautifully performed.
Great episode, I hope many of the clues(or red herrings) we were given will be elaborated and explained further in the future.
Didn't the two older bodies have their wrists tied? Isn't that what was called "textbook Red John" in Pilot? Assuming those were one of his first murders, he could have shot the victims first, then performed the furious cutting on them. He didn't just come up with it and master it without practice. Maybe he loved what he did there and felt he needs a larger dose(stabbing live people?) to satisfy his lust, and became the serial killer he now is.
Another thought I had is that he could be or have been a member of Visualize who was manipulated to do their killings, which is something they did earlier too(season 3, episode 3 I believe). Maybe the first kills were for Visualize, and then he started picking his own targets too.
Last but not least, did anyone else notice who was the first person to shake hands with Lisbon at the party? CBI Ron. He's always there,
in the last scene, lisbon told jane that visualize refuses to furnish any membership lists. then jane went through the arithmetic that whittled the list down to 409 men. then he said that elliston farms will narrow that down a lot more. wait, what? didn't they just discuss the fact that they're not getting info on members from visualize? expliquez s'il vous plait.
I think another writer sat down one night, disgusted after more RJ red herrings, and decided to write a show with RJ "outed." The name of the show is The Following. RJ is in prison, directing the actions of his followers! IMHO, but could be true...just sayin'!
You have some good points but still, I just can't see how this is plausible. Some leave and are not heard from again; not someone who is suspected of putting bloody smiley faces and someone who people think killed 3(it doesn't really matter if RJ killed them or not, the Priest, probably amongst many others, thought he did and that was probably the narrative/legend). There's just no way Stiles never connected the dots between all the red smiley faces amongst other things. He is a dictator, he can get whatever he wants, he has all the information at his hand. He could easily find who RJ was(and you can bet he wanted to find someone who made a mark on the farm like RJ). The only thing that makes me pause at all is how the Priest so nonchalantly talked about the smiley face and how he described talking to people who thought they knew who murdered him. Odd, but still, this is a pretty big stretch, although like I said before, this is entertainment, nothing really would surprise me.
serial killers often start out torturing and killing animals before they move on to human victims. the farm would make sense as red john's training wheels. maybe the other two guys were his first foray into killing people. the way they were bound with wires might be what he did to animals.
agree that the prison break engineered by stiles was an example of him being able to bust anyone out; not of links with red john.
have to say, i'm really liking the disturbed son or step son of stiles as red john.
@B&W&R -- The bodies weren't discovered at the time -- and the "cult" did say, and of course it would be true as in every cult, members leave and are never heard from again. So they didn't go searching for bodies. We have to guess how long RJ was a member and at what age and if he returned to the compound and church or just left completely himself (and did he kill the first 2 or did the speed freak)?
I just don't see how a criminal can go through Visualize, a criminal who's had such fame and is so well known, and nobody in Visualize who personalizes themselves with their people so well, to not know him. For a group that keeps lists of all its people, its just hard to see any situation where they wouldn't know who RJ was. This is the type of organization with an overzealous manipulation style, one who wouldn't just let one of their followers do something like this and not fight back viciously. This guy has built a life building off connections and other people, and its not like no one in Visualize forgot who he was. People don't just say "oh 3 murders, it happens, kids these days". But this is entertainment, and there are lots of things which don't add up, it wouldn't shock me either. I bring up because that would be one ex where the clear gap in storyline and things not adding up would be a real problem and hurt the show because its just not realistic.
I can also see how Red John as a young man could have passed through Visualize and, in retrospect, Stiles might have a suspicion who he was, without necessarily being positive he had his suspect's actual and verifiable name/ID. A powerful man, maintaining his group's reputation, especially with the person gone, might very well only ponder that speculation, be convinced, and do nothing. It also would be logical to assume Red John didn't make a recording in the Visualize program about how he killed someone, even if his tape was such that he was unable, possibly, to conceal his nature from a listener like Stiles.
I thought the prison break of Lorelei was presented as Stiles has the contacts to know, if he wants to ask, which prison a specific prisoner is in and has the contacts to arrange an escape -- which wasn't some people tunneling, but was with a cooperation that Stiles could have used to get anyone out. So, Lorelei's connection to Red John didn't have to have anything to do with it.
perhaps, they can get dna off the bodies or the smiley face. also, they should go back and interview relatives of red john's victims to see if there's a visualize connection.
bw&r - I just remember reading that somewhere at the beginning of the season. But I don't really know for sure. I could be wrong.
@ Huisclothes...Thank you so much.......
@sonia. jane was told he shook hands with red john by lorelei martens in red sails in the sunset. lorelei was the red john accomplice jane spent the night with at the end of season four. lorelei made the comment in anger after telling jane that he and red john were very much alike. she then said, "i can't believe you didn't become lifelong friends the moment you shook hands."
I missed the show when Jane finds out he shook hands with Red John. When was it on and who told him that. Please help......anyone Thank You
i think we will get a jane/lisbon, at least, implication in the end. though this morning, i got this ghastly visual in my head of lisbon standing before patrick's headstone next to charlotte and angela. please, no. but i can't get it out of my head.
I wonder what the writers have planned. I mean it is a very good possibility that they could be canceled, so are they going to plan "another season 3 ending?" If so, it better be the REAL Red John and not another fake out. With 9 or 11 more, they HAVE to move this faster. There has to be some resolution to everything or this series is going to be one big let down.
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