The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: Narrowing the List > Comments Page 6
I'll relate the discussion on atheism as I see it with Patrick Jane. As a fictional character, he is a product of the Hollywood mindset. I've noticed over the last few years that in almost any show, the charismatic character, the one we are meant to admire and wish our friend or lover or wish to be like, is athiest, scoffs at God and ridicules any expression of religious faith. In this way an important Hollywood meme is spread, especially to the young or young adult viewer. To be cool, one must join in the disbelief and ridicule.
@km re: twitter feed. thank you! i feel like a drug addict who just got a taste. good scene with bertram -- one of my favorite sparring partners for patrick. they're talking about judge manchester. looks great!!! not just adorable patrick. scary, brilliant, controlling patrick. have high hopes for sunday.
ROFLMAO @huisclothes! Smiley face scout badge -- can't you just see it. Love it!
@entwife re: rebecca and the smiley face. maybe the smiley face is only reserved for the man himself. no matter what, it made better tv to have patrick being the one to deduce it was a red john case bit by bit. i always assumed red john killed marlon hicks in the doctor's office. perhaps only those who can slash people with the right technique get to sign with the smiley face. so it could be only red john and those who've earned the smiley face scout badge.
@km thanks for the article on cbs sticking with the ones that brought them. from your mouth to a colloquial god's ear. simon mentioned les moonves and nina tassler in his speech. nina was at the ceremony so that's good. but if she has to fire bruno and simon in a month or two -- that's why she makes the big bucks. supposedly les moonves' wife was so smitten with simon when she saw him years ago, she became a real booster. she knew the women would love him. think they made a mistake putting him in the guardian. to take an actor who can convey that much sunniness and positivism and then have him play a guy who cracked a smile maybe twice a season. ok show but too dark. simon said he got depressed because the guy was such heavy going. i remember when bruno wanted simon for the role, cbs said he could have anyone but simon. did they think he was box office poison because of smith?
They released the date that the networks will make their announcements. Here is CBS:
May 15, 2013 CBS New York Afternoon
Gives me hope, @KM!
Watching His Red Right Hand. Rebecca is obviously a minion. Made me think of the theory posited here that there are many Red Johns. But she does not make the smiley face in the office. Is that reserved for the real RJ under the many RJs theory?
@ Mimi and @ Huisclothes,
And the bread! Why?
Simon's speech was lovely! Definitely an 'onya'*moment for him.
Was it in Cosmo that he said the most fearless thing he did was having his daughter because they both were kids with no jobs?
I was not saying that RJ or Visualize were following the 18th century version. If I implied that, then I regret my poor word choice. My point was that enlightenment does not always equal spiritual bliss. We humans can lie to ourselves very well. If huisclothes is correct when saying RJ believes himself some kind of aristocrat, then that is his truth. And it is the truth he wishes to impart to his followers. They in turn have or trust that it is true. And, I agree it would be helpful to know how both RJ and Visualize define harming and helping.
Hi guys, thanks for answering my questions. I went and did some reading and found all of it very interesting. I watched some video's's as well. I found a lot of it to be a reasonable school of thought. But like anything, people have a tendcy to get lost in the very thing they believe in, look at religion! I have also heard of the laws of attraction and I don't disagree. I can also see why Atheists become Atheists. I can also see why Believer's Believe. I think it's safe to say we can do it all here in this big ole world together! Who knows, one we may all be able to sit down together and get some real answers! But until that day comes I have to agree with Jane.....I gotta be me! This whole show has become even more interesting for me now! I can't wait to find out what Red John really thinks! It can't be what any of us are thinking!
@mimi. thanks for the link to the hollywood star ceremony. simon spoke really well. i felt quite emotional when he choked up. the guy who hosted the ceremony was a blowhard and a whore. felt bad simon had to be near him. bruno did a good job. naomi was winging it a little but it was cute. i loved when she said that simon was the best looking guy anyone had ever seen. yet, at 22, with the female population of bondi beach eating out of his hand, he wanted to settle down and have a family. i buy into wanting to cleave to rebecca but have often wondered if that pregnancy was un-intentional. they made sure it didn't happen again until he had a steady income from the guardian. simon said in a interview that if he hadn't moved them to the u.s. to try for have a serious career, they would have split up. he said we had a two-year old, i wasn't working steadily, there was a lot of stress. it all worked out.
@rationalgal. just re-read your last post. i think that enlightenment for red john may have to do with himself and a select few recognizing that they are the aristocrats -- the ones entitled to act with impunity. killing when they wish, showing mercy, when they feel like it. in general dispensing with others however they choose. some shall be killed. some shall be the killers who obey them. takes me back to does red john have an org. chart? and if so, is everyone in the organization a direct report to rj or is he a good delegator? is it a feudal system? or can you work your way up?
re red john and enlightenment. funny, when rj spoke to patrick about the two of them being friends and living on a higher level, i always took it that if jane was up for it, he and red john would be the animals that were more equal than other animals. above red john's other friends. maybe it's the pitch he gives everyone. but it might make sense that if jane was red john's shipoopi, the one who's hard to get, rj might envision just the two of them gamboling across the countryside.
I have been waiting to see what Red John/Visualize mean by enlightenment. It definitely is not the 18th century version because it relies on brainwashing, exploiting gullibility, and seeing something transcendent about serial killing. Hard to see what kind of "truth" is there. Lots of ideologies claim to have the truth, but I'd prefer to see a focus on what is morality. In my opinion, it is all about how we treat one another - whether we harm or help. I'd like to see how RJ/Visualize deal with that and how they define harming and helping. It might be important to understanding the underlying theme of this series.
Secondly, enlightenment is commonly used as a spiritual term, but that is ignoring the fullness of the word. To enlighten means to give, to instruct, to impart knowledge. It means to shed light upon. In the 18th century The Enlightenment was a philosophical movement based in the belief in human reason. So the higher calling Red John and friends have is not necessarily spiritual, because enlightenment is really about knowledge. Knowing the truth, prajna.
First let me say that I think the audience puts what they want into the characters we love. A spiritual person wants to see that Jane is a wounded or angry lamb wanting to return to the fold, so they read that into things and search for confirmation. Just like those who want to see romance see scenes between Jane and Lisbon as romantic. There's the beauty, our imagination lets us connect with our desires within the story. Our minds are beautiful and creative, but we can't forget that they have a powerful defense mechanism to hold tenaciously to unreasonable beliefs despite to contravening evidence, and most of the time it is because of our emotional attachments. Shorter. We tend to see what we want to see. Wanting is powerful. Cont.
Continued. We atheists say we do good because people need help and it needs to be done. Religion has changed over the centuries and much of it has become less brutal, which is good. People have actually had to give up traditional beliefs so they could be moral. (They have been influenced by people - nonbelievers along with humane believers - who question religion. The Lutheran theologian Martin Marty said "It is the role of unbelievers to force religions to be benign.") Some people obviously need a god belief for whatever reason, and that is fine for them. Others don't need it and that is fine too. The main thing is to live and let live and, most important, keep religion out of politics. We've all seen how that is working. Hope this helps.
Ani, I really appreciate your interest in why some people have no god beliefs. Basically, it's from looking at the world, seeing all the divisiveness and harm religious beliefs can cause with no evidence that any of them are right. Atheism therefore is not a belief, it's a conclusion. Leaving religion (to me - I was a very devout Catholic) felt like I had scraped the barnacles off the boat and could proceed with my life without the confusion god beliefs cause. They explain nothing. People behave in helpful or harmful ways regardless of whether they are religious, but I really have seen how good people can do bad things ONLY because their religion tells them the evil they do is actually good. I am part of an interfaith dialog group (one of 2 atheists amongst about 100 religionists). We get along well working on solutions for the common good. The only difference is that the believers say they do good because people need help and they are called by God to do it. We atheists say we do goo
yes bonaduz, counting our blessing is important!
anywa I'll stop here cos I don't want to go there on here. Id rather stay on lighter subjects.
ani- enlightenment is a word we often use in spirituality, I guess it's a synonym of utter bliss, it's being aligned with your 'true self', your soul if you want. unconditional love.
Well I'm not sure it's the right place to talk about all this tbh. but in a word, a lot of things made me change. I had a difficult childhood and heavy stuff going on and health issues that really made me think about life in a different way and they changed me tremendously. Dont worry I'm not from any cult or anything lol. I'm just a very spiritual person that's all and I have so much faith now and it changes everything for me. Have you ever heard of quantum physics? Actually Simon baker is the best example of how law of attraction works, the power of belief. since he was akid he'd longed to become an actor, he had the belief and mostly the desire and he acted on it. people were on his path for this to happen, you have heard that if you watched his speech. that's how it works.
Hi everyone! I'm back from a day in town and just reading up on all your posts! This is getting very interesting and quite deep - love it!
Beeing grateful, yes! I've worked in India at a missionary hospital for a while when I was 22. And I can tell all of you - that experience made me grow up very fast. And it made me appriciate everything I had at home (rich, beautiful, peaceful Switzerland)! It was a RC hospital run by nuns. I also grew up RC, but always was hesitant to follow all the rules. (witch of course didn't go down well with my family!) Anyways - what I saw (or rather was forced to watch) there in India really pushed me over the edge. The only question remaining was: WHY? Why would a loving God let all of this suffering happen? Specially the babies and kids! OMG the babies!! And ever since I'm struggeling with that question. And ever since I'm really, truly greatful for every day that I'm healthy, not starving and have a roof over my head, because many people don't have any
mimi, what made you changed?
Now I really want to know what you all think of the Red John character! Red John is always taking about enlightenment, do you know what he is talking about? Do you have any idea where the writer's are going with this character? Because of all the posts, I'm going to do some research. This has been very interesting.
I'm also atheist. I was raised a catholic but even my mum was not a catholic anymore I guess, she was "forced" by her parents to go to church etc.
I don't believe in god per se but I believe we create our life. I'm more a buddhist than a catholic and to me it all boils down to the same thing, god is in each and everyone of us, we can all perform miracle, it's all in the mind.
I strongly believe in law of attraction and have seen crazy thing happen to me since I changed the way I think.
just my two cents and of course we agree to disagree:-)
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