The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker > Comments Page 10
@rationalgal jane certainly knows he's not smarter than red john. guess we'll see how patrick's comeuppance goes down.
one other thing about wainwright. i think once red john knew about patrick's ruse, he picked wainwright as the target in the back of the car so that an attack on the limo would be maximally hurtful to susan darcy. she and wainwright were tight. they had several conversations critical of patrick, lisbon and the team. and we have to assume that anything that happens in the cbi headquarters goes directly to red john.
don't forget that red john started stalking darcy in always bet on red. in crimson hat, with a little help from red john, she shot her buddy at the cbi, wainwright. what happened to her? in crimson ticket we find out she had a breakdown. red john has that effect on people. patrick, kristina, now susan.
Heller said Jane's undoing (in whatever form it takes) will be due to his arrogance. He thinks he's smarter than anyone and will find out that's not entirely true. No doubt it will come at the end when Jane can finally see something ahead of him other than getting revenge. Right now, he really doesn't think of anything else or care about anything else. That has to change.
@b&w&r yes. will be interesting to see how far jane will go now. so far, he has been able to bounce back or manipulate his way back and continue his quest with no repercussions that mean much to him. angela and charlotte being killed was the mother of all repercussions. the writers may have to do something as irreparable to see if he can come back from that. something with lisbon makes sense.
i never thought jane had matured. jane is jane. he's wonderful but he's also cocksure, boyish, and impatient. he feels remorse about his wife and daughter. remember he said about the puzzle box, the person who made this is dead. by comparison, i would say, we are doing pretty well. that sums him up. he knows lisbon will always come around. that's exactly what happened in the pilot. he folded the little frog and she found him irresistible. that's who he is. he closes cases. that outweighs what a pain in the ass he is. when i was a kid, i saw a playboy magazine cartoon that showed a bosomy blonde displaying a diamond ring at a cocktail party. behind her is the ugliest 90 year old man ever. she says to the people admiring her ring, this is the klopman diamond and this is the curse that goes with it. that's jane. he's the diamond and the curse. everyone is.
Yeah, he showed no remorse over Wainwright's death. That really bothered me. Frankly, even if he didn't like or respect Wainwright, a good person would feel terrible guilt over Wainwright's death. He was an innocent man. He worked hard, cared about his job, and actually was very supportive of Jane most of the time. He even overruled Lisbon in support of Jane's idea at one point. And Jane deserved to be fired. If any of you said even half of what Jane said to Wainwright to your boss, you would be fired and never given another chance. Later, Wainwright even expressed concern about Jane...sounds like a pretty good guy to me. I don't believe Jane has grown at all. Just another reason I don't consider him such a great catch.
That's also why I never really bought Lisbon's morals influencing Jane, it's the other way around as we're seeing, Jane influencing Lisbon. Jane ultimately is in control of what he needs to be, he knows this, he knows when a RJ break happens he has the freedom to do what he needs to. He knows he can blackmail and manipulate his way out of trouble and if he gets fired, if it accomplishes something or if he has to sacrifice something he's not willing to, I don't think he really cares. So lets see I guess how far, how cunning he is willing to go with this investigation of Stiles and Visualize. Like we said before, weirdly he hasn't really interrogated Stiles much, but unless there's something else going on(and there might be easily Stiles is a powerful man), I don't think we have reason to believe Jane won't. The killer instinct is as there as it has ever been.
All along it was one of those things where Wainwright was never really sold Jane was worth the trouble and Jane never really had much tolerance for some young hot shot coming in and trying to interfere on the freedom he has at the CBI. Now, @rationalgal does raise something interesting: we all like to talk about how Jane has matured, how he shows more emotion and compassion, but really, the proof is in the pudding and last season he broke Lisbon's heart, put the team through hell, ruined his 9 yr cellabacy and put himself through such hell you could see(which only tells you how much hell he put everyone else through). And yeah, really what remorse was there? He's still hellbent on Lorelei, playing her games and hasn't really eased up on Lisbon or anybody else. What's the most compassion we saw, him holding Lisbon's hand? Not exactly super convincing
@b&w&r yes. like you said.
cont'd from below. he readily agreed to throw jane under the bus when susan darcy said she thought jane was a red john disciple. and when he and darcy discussed the deaths of lisbon and rigsby in crimson hat, all he wanted to talk about was that there'd been no mention of any notion that jane might be a threat in jane's file so the cbi was not liable. kind of a weasel. still, he didn't deserve to die. but perhaps red john had a direct line to what wainwright said and dislikes a weasel as much as the next man. they didn't show patrick doing any mourning over luther and he barely managed to give lisbon an apology for his disappearance. would have been a good thing - maybe not good tv - but a good thing. i'll stay in character by saying, people give you what they have to give. if you want feelings expressed or even acknowledged, jane is not your man.
ill chime in here a little, Wainwright and Jane close? HOW? I really think Jane has absolutely no remorse for him dying. First off, the last real thing Jane said to Wainwright is "you're a pathetic little boy". And that was in the moment, but I think there was a lot of Jane's true feelings of Wainwright coming out. He never respected him, earlier in the episode he told him if you interrogate the little girl I'll hurt you badly. He almost was just amused by Wainwright and his eager beaver try hard mentality. He never respected him. Wainwright also never really respected Jane, Jane went too far but Wainwright also went in sensitive mode and fired him at the first spot and had no intention on bringing him back post suspension after Jane pulled off one of his antics(yeah it was a bit much but it wasn't anything to extreme for Jane)
@rationalgal. just a couple of points about your comments about patrick's vegas escapade. i think he needed to crawl into the gutter to attract red john -- kind of method acting. and he had to figure that red john was vetting his moral decay at every step. and he went back to doing psychic readings. as you might guess, i have no problem with that. surprised you think patrick slept with other women in his quest for red john. do you mean in vegas or all along? frankly, sorry it happened off screen. maybe we would have gotten more than just a glimpse of his marble shoulder. which brings me to wainwright. he was a very odd character. most of his lines were "i need evidence, man, evidence" or "you're a psychopath, man, a psychopath." so i wouldn't say that luther and patrick were tight. he readily agreed to throw jane under the bus
here are some more films that simon tends to mention with pride. first, "margin call" which won the independent spirit award for best ensemble cast and was nominated for best screenplay at the oscars. it takes place over the span of 24 hours in an investment firm on the verge of collapse. alongside kevin spacey and jeremy irons, simon plays a glorious son of a bitch. he also portrayed an ambitious young actor in "la confidential." see simon as a lawyer investigating a serial murderer in the super grisly "the killer inside me." of course, he is amazing as the seductive new yorker writer, christian thompson, in "the devil wears prada." this spring, he will appear in "i give it a year", a british rom-com written and directed by sasha baron cohen's writing partner, dan mazur. also, google martin scorsese's key to reserva, a spoof of a hitchcock film with simon in the cary grant role. really wonderful.
I forgot to mention Simon's movie, "Something New." it is so sweet! Simon plays a white landscape architect in love with a black high level account executive. It's something of a film version of a romance novel. Simon actually embodies what a fantasy lover in such novels is like. Very romantic. Very believable. Simon knows what he looks like and how to portray a romantic character, and he certainly makes the most of it. Jeez! The guy is SO cute and lovable!!!
Bonaduz, you should get Baker's films. In "Not Forgotten" you'll see how bloody violent he can be (even tho the ending didn't make sense). In "The Affair of the Necklace" he's an 18th century gigolo in Marie Antoinette's court. He handles the courtly language and mannerisms beautifully! In "Book of Love" he's a cuckolded husband and it breaks your heart to see it happen. "Sex and Death 101"is a very funny sex comedy, somewhat crude, but with an endearing ending.In "Land of the Dead" he's a zombie hunter. Loved his "dead reckoning" truck! In "Red Planet" he's an astronaut on Mars. In "Ride with the Devil" he's a Civil War Confederate vigilante whose sidekick/best friend is a slave he freed. In "The Lodger" he plays a character who could be a modern day Jack the Ripper. All in all, in every film, every character is unique to the part. Simon actually becomes that person complete with style of speaking, body language and mannerisms. A wonderful actor!!
Cont. the choice to live/fight back or give up and die.
@Watcher I agree.
@ huisclothes I was musing if it was possible to erase someone from the memory palace. Jane's memory palace is a fair in Joplin, right? Everything he remembers is stored within the grounds, rides, shows, et cetera, right? Could a memory of a person, we will choose Kirkland, be connected to the image on the side of the Ferris wheel be painted out of the mural? And, thus make it possible to not know someone he has already met. Could RJ be someone that Jane worked with/under for a time? Could RJ have helped Jane perfect his psychic routine? Could Jane know Kirkland, but not presently remember him? Like I said I'm only musing. And, I had been thinking how hypnosis has been used in episodes. RJ, Stiles, and Jane have the skills to make weaker/willing people to do what they suggest. Plus, I am inclined to think that RJ's "affection" stems from Jane's getting up and his pursuit of him.
Jane's arms and hands are red in that scene by memory. He is told that he isn't powerless, that he has a ch
Continued: Just as Red John is blind to the consequences of his demand that people love and obey him. He demands that they sacrifice their loved ones to earn his favor. What is going on here? We're dealing with two men so blinded by their obsessions they can't see beyond them. I will say, however, that Jane's is justified to a large extent. Red John's is not and he needs to come to a very bad end. Buried alive might be nice. Jane might love that idea and he's already tested it out. Only this time he walks away and lets RJ die slowly in terror and agony. I'll buy that.
rationalgal and huisclothes - thank you for your explanation. Interesting thoughts about Patrick working for/with the FBI. You guys keep me from everything, because I love to go way back and read all your comments! Takes a while - lol! @huisclothes:thank's for welcoming me - appirciate it. Excuse my english (not my first language). I'll keep visiting the site. Looking foreward to Ellen tomorrow.Love Simon Baker! He's really cute, right huisclothes? Have you seen other films with him? I know The Guardian and already liked him there. Didn't see movies with him though. Any suggestions?
Here's something that's been bothering me. To find Red John, Jane went through 6 months of faking depression, destroying every bit of integrity he had, breaking Lisbon's heart, emotionally cheating on his dead wife (surely Lorelei was not the only woman Jane had sex with in his effort to smoke out RJ). In the end the plan not only failed completely, it resulted in the horrible death of Wainwright, a man Jane clearly liked a lot and was becoming good friends with. Six months! And far worse than his previous failures. Yet Jane shows no emotional scars from that? Just goes along seeing what info he can get from Lorelei. Never a twinge of remorse or guilt or just feeling stupid. What does this say about his character? He is clearly so driven by his drive for revenge that he is blind to the human consequences.
The reason I speculated that Jane was working with the FBI was that season 5 seems to be starting the series all over again, this time with Jane being set up to help the FBI. It didn't match anything in the previous seasons and there have been other weird episodes also - dream-style disconnects with the hallucinations, that shoe episode, the Volker arc, change in Lisbon's character, etc. Don't know what to make of it but I hope the writers do. As for Jane's remark about the afterlife to Van Pelt, it was the pilot so a way was needed to showcase the characters' different worldviews. Van Pelt typically religious, Jane typically not, the others noncommittal, plus other character aspects.
@watcher. think that's a great call. when patrick was institutionalized, it was probably before red john had imprinted on him. before he did anything remarkable. that would have happened when he landed his job at the cbi which would make alexa's phone call to minelli and kirkland's involvement make sense. that is, if they are indeed red johnketeers.
just thinking, aside from lorelei, have we met any other person whose loved one has been killed by red john? i know that we still don't have proof about miranda.) seems odd that in this whole time, they wouldn't have circled back and talked to any of the other spouses. would have been interesting to have patrick interview them. strange omission.
@bonaduz, welcome. my interpretation of jane saying "i do so hope you're wrong" is that he knows life is empty and brutish. if what she was saying is so, it would mean he'd have to endure some form of this awful existence or consciousness forever. plus, it's such an elegant conversation ender. worthy of noel coward.
@km. hmm. so you're theorizing that jane getting hired in the first place is just the start of rj's long game? how delightfully byzantine. minelli was the one that hired him. unless he was told to do it. but then it doesn't seem like alexa would have had to make that phone call. unless alexa is just an fbi agent (albeit a bitchy one) making a call to a cbi agent on behalf of a homeland security agent. when you say maybe people have been erased. like patrick's mind has selective memory loss and then only for short periods?
on another topic, here's something i think about. remember in the flashback to patrick's locked room in the institution in red brick and ivy, we see that he's smeared a red smiley face on the wall? that had to be blood, no? a suicide attempt? (where are the scars?) or just art therapy?
huisclothes,b&w&r all over it,rationalgal and watcher should get together and write the screenplay for "The Mentalist" Movie, lol! You guys are good, have a lot of info and knowlege about the characters and psychologie! I'm sure that I would enjoy it! Something is bothering me: In the pilot Van Pelt sais: The kingdom of god is a real place and you have an immortal soul Mr. Jane. Jane answers: Oh I soo hope you're wrong! Why would he say that? Would the thought of beeing reunited with his family not be attractive for him? Or is he fearing a reunion? Why? Just thinking! (No dates on the graves...)
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