The Mentalist > The Mentalist Review: The Hunt for Volker > Comments Page 12
@rationalgal. i like her a lot. funny. we had a killing couple in season one (red hair and silver tape) and a red john incorporated being a mom and pop shop doesn't appeal to me. after world peace, my dearest wish is that kristina frye never darken my screen again. but i totally see why you'd like her for this.
are you saying that maybe jane is part of an fbi plot we have yet to find out about? wow. the mentalist audience has never been left in the dark like that. we've always known the most about what's going on with patrick. more than any other character. and sometimes, more than patrick.
Despite everyone's unhappiness about season 4 I loved it. Almost all of the episodes were emotionally compelling, even riveting. As for Visualize, from the moment it was presented I knew it had to be key to resolving the RJ case. Why doesn't Jane investigate it more? Perhaps he is part of the FBI plan to corner RJ so he can be convicted, so he avoids spooking Stiles. Van Pelt was clearly set to infiltrate Visualize until her real self got pregnant. That ended that, which may account for some plot problems as the writers scramble to replace that arc. As for RJ, does he really have to be one man? Cannot there be a serial killing couple? That would explain the erotic behavior RJ shows at times. Also the voice. It is rather high pitched, so could be the female RJ speaking at those times. But why does RJ have to be a man at all? Could "he" not be a woman who gets killing help and any needed public visibility from assorted minions. I like Kristina for this. I like her a lot.
@jennifer1. interesting that what captured you as a mentalist follower was patrick's charitable donation. that was sweet. i'm way less high-minded. there were two moments that sealed my fate as a lover of the mentalist. first was when i was crossing third avenue, saw patrick's picture on the side of a bus and almost got hit by it. the second was in ladies in red when he held the widow's hand and told her he knew she was in trouble and was confident he could help her and she should call him and he'd come. i was a goner. he was soothing, seductive, audacious. i would immediately come up with all sorts of trouble he needed to come help me with.
that was the same allure he used when he sent lorelei away. he took over, locked her in his droopy green gaze and told her what she needed to do. anything you say, sir. but that's just me.
@b&w&r. when i read your comments and you use phrases like "thread the needle," i always feel that i'm dealing with a pro writer, producer, media person etc. always appreciate your thoughts.
who can you honestly say is Red John? I have no idea. And throughout the show the only people I've ever suspected are a) Mancini in season 2 for a bit b) LaRoche in season 3 c) CBI Ron d) Ardiles. And really only CBI Ron has been anything more than just a temporary fiddling of the idea. All I can say is Stiles is involved in some way, but I could have said that two and a half years ago also. It's a weird spot the writers have put us in. Your right @huisclothes though, I'd love to get to talk about this show next year and for a while I've definitely thought about how life would be without the Mentalist and how I'd only have 2-3 tv shows left I really watch closely. No Mentalist really would suck. We criticize the writers alot, but they do alot of good we don't necessairly realize right away and the strength of the show: the characters and their development, is a testament to the producers and writers in many ways.
Stiles, Lorelei, and probably one or two characters they are yet to introduce and perhaps bringing back those FBI agents Mancini and Schultz to add intrigue and relating it to the idea of RJ having a friend in the FBI(which Bruno told us will be part of the plot this season, Jane seeing people and not knowing who's an RJ friend and who isn't, we haven't seen that yet so I'm guessing it'll be coming the second half of the season). We're in a really weird spot, most shows like this about one man trying to catch a dread serial killer the show is based off, after 4+seasons you can have a decent guess on who that unknown serial killer is. With this we don't. In some sense thats a good thing, it adds intrigue and we don't have to have the focus be on everybody randomly hypothesizing oh this guy has to be Red John or this guy which really makes for lazy talk and narratives that don't actually delve into the show, it's characters and what it's about, but at the same time, who can you honestly
@huisclothes: you brought up the problem, there's really nothing to base a storyline off of right now. Really the only fodder we have is Stiles and Visualize and that whole story is built around the idea of mystique the unknown and the assumption and implication there is something significant going on here that the show's going to have to come back to later in the series. And that's why this week is so crucial, on the surface it just looks mostly like another case of the week with some Red John intrigue, but really this is the only basis we have for a Red John arc right now, visualize and RJ's connection to it. What this show says about it, even if it's hardly ground breaking details, is significant. I think they will draw on this episode as the arc goes on leading up to the finale(which very well could be Jane and RJs encounter in the series finale). You're right they have to bring back characters to do an arc, but with this they already have everybody they need, Stiles, Lorelei, and
hard to pull, say, dean harkin out of a hat and say, this is red john. guess they'd have to do an arc in which they brought back a bunch of characters and sprinkled exposition about them through the arc. "hey lisbon" yes, jane? remember how dr. cliff edmunds didn't seem too upset when he knew his wife was going to die of a horrible virus? no jane, remind me. ok, lisbon, i'll be glad to. remember you gave him a weird look but he explained that being agitated would be of no use to her. and i said, true" anyway, you get the point.
this whole discussion, going back nine pages has been weird for me. i started out dissecting out my likes and dislikes and criticizing the writing and now with all the talk ofcancellation, i think about that joni mitchell song. "don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got till it's gone. would love to get to criticize it next season.
Its unfortunate and I agree with you that it was not handled well. In the 100th episode interview, I remember Lisbon(Robin Tunney) said she didn't know who Red John was because they don't tell the characters. Now, I don't really buy that, but thinking of what @watcher said of how it seems like this storyline is so helter skelter and not planned that well, it made me think, what if she doesn't know who he is because the writers still haven't figured out there plan for it? I know Bruno said back in season 1 he had a general idea of how this show would end, but what if a big part of the reason this show declined was because the RJ storyline the writers hedged their bets on was a storyline the writers themselves didn't even have planned out? That would be rather unfortunate, but I tend to agree with most in that this storyline will disappoint when over(Bruno even warned fans it would which is never a good sign)
season 4 had flaws to it, and the biggest thing of all is CBS's view of this show fell. From promoting it as one of their big risers, they demoted it to the death hole of Sunday Night because they just didn't value the show that much. They realized that the writers gamble had burned them, that you couldnt really base this show off one man's pursuit of a killer with nothing else long term. That's why this show is on Sunday night from the Thursday night slot everybody covets and is now and in real danger of not being renewed. And the writers know this; that's why they really hyped up the idea of getting breakthroughs in the Red John case this season back in the summer. They put off the case for too long, didn't really know how to threat the needle of the equilibrium between giving the readers info about RJ but at the same time keeping it an intriuging mystery, so they just went safe and didnt give us anything for so long that now they're forced to cram this storyline in half a season.
@black white & red - After the season 3 finale is when I became fed up with the Red John plot. I was really annoyed by the fake RJ story. Sure, not knowing if they would be renewed is tough, but most shows have to face that at some point, and many have ongoing story lines to wrap up. The writers handled this badly. They should have let Red John stay dead and show us how Jane adapted after that. RJ was his main purpose in life, so what does he do when that is suddenly gone? It could have been really interesting. And if they felt the need to keep RJ in the picture in some way, they could have focused on finding his disciples. Or maybe one of them would try to step into Red John's place. (that wouldn't be my preferred way to go, but it would be better than what we got). But this os all just my opinion. I know some love the current Red John situation...just not me
And the storyline of RJ really being alive was forced, I don't think it was bad per se, but it was kind of botched in comparison to the level of what season 3 was(which was my favorite season of the Mentalist). There were far too many questions that weren't answered(1) why did Jane think Red John would be in the mall 2) How did RJ anticipate Jane would think this and use Carter as a scapegoat 3) How did the gun get taken away, we assume security guard Deutsch did it but we never really got much insight into it). But the show went along with it and I think they realized they didn't have too much to go with. That's why most of last season was so passive, we really got nowhere in the RJ storyline, as Bruno said, last season was more just to appeal to fans and attract viewers with more casual type cases. There wasnt much of a storyline that lasted more than one episode. And through this botched storyline the show took a hit, ratings fell, I think everybody can agree season 4 had flaws to i
But here's the problem; you have your built in ending just in case, but what happens when you find out your not over yet? This is where the show really took a gamble, and its one that stemmed back when they made the plot. They gambled they could build an entire show around one man's search for a serial killer. They gambled they had enough creativity, enough story lines and characters to keep it intriguing to fans. They said back in season 1 RJ wouldn't be revealed until the finale. They took a stand at the end of season 3, they could have wrapped up this RJ plot, but they choose not to. They thought it'd be best for the show to have it still around Jane searching for RJ, not about the post RJ effects on storyline and character. The reason for this probably was because they just didn't have anything prepared for after Jane meets Red John. So they gambled on this storyline and they were put in a tough spot were they were forced to find a way to drag out the plot in the season 4 opener. A
@watcher: i had a rant about this last week, the turning point of the show was the season 3 finale. The direction of the show, everything changed from that. Remember, this was one of CBS's bright new shows, huge ratings the first few years, they were nominated for awards after their first year, CBS really hyped it up, showed it off, there was every intention of this show going 7 or perhaps more seasons(When Bruno was asked how long this show would go he said ask me after season 7 which is when Simon's contract was through). But what was looked at such a rising show with its axis pointed up turned after that S3 finale. The show was put in a tough spot, they didnt know they were getting renewed so they had to have a built in ending for the RJ storyline in case it wasnt(and its telling they had RJ killed in what they were prepared to be the resolving of the series this is something people dont really consider)
@huisclothes - it is a massive hole in the plot. There are a lot of holes in various episodes. I think some people give the writers too much credit. I admit, they are great at character development...letting us get to know a character's personality and motivations, and at interpersonal relationships. However, I think they are often very weak when it comes to plot development. With a lot of episodes, you just have to overlook plot holes. And the Red John plot is the main example of this. There is no explaining Jane ignoring Stiles. I have very low expectations for the Red John reveal. I think everybody will be very disappointed.
Not surprised, huisclothes. I agree. The character of Patrick Jane is a treasure.
And, I agree about Ms. Austen. She, too, was a treasure.
@b&w&r and watcher. i forgot that i thought about why jane didn't press stiles about red john and that he didn't say, ok you owe me a favor, who is red john or how do you know about him? what's going on there? that's a massive hole in the plot. i mean, it made for a great episode but still.
also, true. they're asking most viewers (not us who can recite every line back to the pilot) to remember back a long time if they pin this on someone we haven't seen in 2, 3 , 4, 5 years. unless they do some cheat of a long synopsis -- that would be a cheap episode for the producers. like a saturday night live compilation. just the editors slapping it together.
It is stuff like this (Jane not aggressively pursuing Stiles) that convinced me a couple of seasons ago that there is no grand plan for Red John. The writers make it up as they go. They won't decide who Red John is until they absolutely have to.
in the same aggressive find out everything about RJ mode he usually is, why? Is he just probing him like we often see him do, getting a read on Stiles, and working off that or is there something else going on? For those of you desperate for RJ information, this is in many ways your key.
Agree on it being odd that nobody follows up on Stiles. Jane knows he knows about Red John and never presses him on it? Really? It makes absolutely no sense and is very out of character. Jane spends hours every day pouring through a list of people he has shaken hands with, and spends no time trying to get closer to Stiles? Stiles owed Jane a big favor: instead of asking Stiles for Red John info, he asked him to break Lorelei out of prison, something that could have gotten him sent to prison for a long time if his "kidnapping" plan didn't work. It makes no sense. Very lazy writing.
sketchy character with so much unknown about him, is that he will play a central role in this RJ development. And that's why next weeks episode will be so big, we get to see the link between Stiles, Visualize and Red John. The key to unlocking Red John information is going to be in alot of ways through getting info about Visualize and Stiles. This is an episode that will tell you alot about this and where exactly the show is looking to drive the RJ material for its arc from. The sketchier Stiles becomes, the larger the role he will have I think. And one last thing about Stiles, Jane knows Stiles has some tie to RJ, its been throughout there he knows things Jane doesn't, but Jane hasn't really turned his focus and scrutiny towards him, why? Everything about Stiles is so weird; we know he has valuable information, but he's never really been approached about it and the characters act like he doesn't have valuable information at all. When Jane talks to Stiles, he's not in the same aggress
Couple interesting pts from this rather lengthy discussion: 1) Having Kristina in the state she ended up in, neither dead or alive, just seems like an easy way to bring her back into the story at some pt as suspicious but relevant. Now, what we don't know is how far will this show go back to make the connections in this Red John plot? That was 3 years ago almost, and in general alot of characters like Mashburn fans talk alot about haven't returned in 2 years(Stiles is really the only recurring character). We know the show has wanted to put the point out that Red John is someone Jane has seen before, but just how far back are they willing to directly use characters and ideas to tie this story together? Previous season endings and themes haven't really tied on previous seasons, just events from earlier in the season. I'm going to be really interested in watching for this. 2) What this does tell you is the fact we keep seeing Stiles, and how he's being portrayed as a powerful but sketchy
@km. funny that you bring up pride and prejudice. i feel that in patrick jane, mr heller has created a character as unique and passionate and charming as...elizabeth bennett. (bet you didn't see that one coming.) william thackeray said that if he could meet miss bennett, he would get down on one knee and kiss her hand. wonderful character. like many people, i wish jane austen had lived longer and written more books. but sad for us, she got cancelled too soon. i will hate losing patrick.
Wow, huisclothes, I’ll second and third that! lol. Patrick Jane had me in Season 1’s Red-Handed when Lisbon and Grace turned down the necklaces he bought them as gifts, and he dropped them in a donation box for charity along with cash, and at the end he gave his winnings to the casino worker to help her pay for her mum’s operation. Can’t deny he’s a very good, compassionate man. He has his faults for sure, but Lisbon would be a fool to not test the waters if the opportunity presented itself.
Cont...... to each other. Most expressions are familial/platonic. A few suggest physical desire. We could guess that Jane shares a past time with Jane Austen's own Mr. Darcy as both have spent some time enjoying the pleasure that a fine pair of eyes offers... emerald necklace and earrings that match... a pixie cut to accentuate them....agreeing that the damaged expression within them is attractive....
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